The Kill Club

[norseman]

Awesome!!!

 

I like Mil Spec Monkey!

[Guest]

 

That said, #3 isn't necessarily logical, because we don't know that they need protection. Killing one only proves they exist: it does little of anything to understand them.

 

 

I'm late to this thread and I can't even get off the first page without commenting.

 

We don't know that they *don't* need protection. Every other apex predator in North America has seen dramatic population losses over the last couple of hundred years and they only bounce back when they're actively protected. Grizzly bears, for example, used to number in the tens of thousands historically. Now they're likely to be well under ten thousand. This isn't just because of hunting. It's because of habitat loss and overall damage to the ecosystem. It's totally illogical to say that, for some reason, wood apes are immune to what's affected all other large omnivores on this continent. 

 

Fact is, until they're real, nobody will even bother to find out. There will be no research done by anyone with the training, dedication, and resources in a mythical animal. All we have now are rag-tag groups of citizen naturalists patching together their long weekends and vacation time doing what really should be done long-term over the course or months if not years. If your approach is no ape should be collected — not a single solitary one – then you need to admit that your POV is basically unscientific. It's emotional and may contribute to the ultimate failing of regional populations of the species. 

 

I'm not pro-kill. I'm pro-science. I'm pro-knowledge and pro-discovery and pro-reality. I'm sick and tired of this subject being dismissed and ignored by "serious people." I'm tired of seeing more and more habitat destroyed. I'm tired of having debates about UFOs and psychic powers and lemur DNA and the friggin' PGF. "Bigfoot" needs to be brought out into the bright light of science and leave behind the accreted cruft of over 50 years of pop culture crap.

 

I care about the animal, not "the community" or Finding Bigfoot or any of the other stuff we spend 95% of our time talking about. That's why I advocate and am actively involved in trying to collect a type specimen. 

[norseman]

Booooyyyyaaaaahhhh!!!!!!!

)))))

And i would guess in the lower 48 there are less than a 1000 grizzly bears left!

The point is? They dont do enviromental impact studies for pixies or gnomes or squatches when building that next bridge or freeway.

Only recognized species get that distinction......and if we dont know we dont know.

Its a crap shoot, but as bipto pointed out, other large omnivores have not fared so well. So logic would dictate something similar is happening with squatch populations

[Guest Rick1013]

Bipto, your post was absolutely spot-on. Doing anything less than collecting a type specimen is simply cryptomasturbation… playing around without actually accomplishing anything.

 

My interest in Sasquatch is personal and I am not actively involved in trying to kill one or prove their existence from a scientific standpoint. I do hunt in the Fall and have spent many hours in the woods thinking of what I would do if a Sasquatch walked in front of my cross-hairs. I have not determined that answer for myself, but I don't criticize people who pursue to that end. Which in reality, is simply the BEGINNING of understanding.

 

In my opinion, people who add the mystique of UFOs, psychic powers, shape-shifting and other esoteric traits to Sasquatch may as well be "debating" the physiology and social habits of leprechauns or unicorns.

 

I have no idea why I have always had this interest within me, but it is there. While I am intrigued by reading sighting reports, listening to audio recordings and analyzing Native America legends, the bottom line is that Sasquatch will be nothing more than myth and lunacy (receiving no official acknowledgment, habitat protection or legal status) until a body is procured.

 

And the moment that happens, believers and non-believers alike will live in a brand new world. Somebody is gonna have some 'splainin to do.

[norseman]

I think Iam going to have some Sasquatch targets made.

Its silly and counter productive to have pro kill proponents unwilling to be trigger pullers! I ran into this alot with Project Grendel...... Listen we need every swinging **** in the field packing a rifle! You may not walk point for your team but opportunities present them selves whenever they present themself. I dont care if your making a head call or driving your kids to school.

If a person is conditioned properly reflex memory will simply take over and you will make that shot without even thinking about it. But you have to be willing to spend long hours training.

[Guest]

Doing anything less than collecting a type specimen is simply cryptomasturbation… playing around without actually accomplishing anything.

 

Love that.

 

And the moment that happens, believers and non-believers alike will live in a brand new world. Somebody is gonna have some 'splainin to do.

 

Word.

Its silly and counter productive to have pro kill proponents unwilling to be trigger pullers!

 

For me, I support those in the best ways I can who are qualified and willing to pull the trigger. I'm simply not. I've never hunted nor have I been trained in the use of long guns. 

[norseman]

Bipto, we can change that, and you will find it absolutely exhilerating. But more important much more important is this...... what if a shot presents itself not at area x with the team, but back in michigan camping? Or on a hiking trip to colorado?

Very often things do not work out the way we want them too. And look at the odds......

Is Bipto interested in the subject of squatch? yes

Is Bipto actively seeking squatch? yes

Is Bipto pro kill? yes

Is Bipto willing to pull the trigger? No

So as we can see any "no" answer and the greatest discovery in the history of mankind just strolls off like patty. What really really sucks is that in Bipto's case it is the last no that seals the deal.

I think being prokill is awesome...... I think helping out a pro kill cause when your not comfortable with the actual act is awesome.

But it truly is a numbers game...... its beating the odds. The more fishing lines in the water? The better the chance of catching a fish.

[Guest Rick1013]

While I understand your logic, Norseman (if it's OK that I horn in on your topic with bipto), I have an issue with expecting every "kill" proponent to go around armed with a weapon capable of killing a 600 pound animal.

 

Some people like to hunt and have no problem personally killing a warm-blooded animal. But some people won't do either.

 

For years I didn't hunt or kill anything myself. I had nothing against people who hunted and the thought of it even interested me in a manner, but I did not own any firearms and had no experience with them.

 

That changed when I married a woman who lives for deer hunting. She introduced me to hunting and I found that I have an innate interest and desire to hunt (deer). I also discovered a love for firearms (rifles and handguns) and an interest in learning how to use them effectively for hunting and self-defense.

 

But even though I own firearms and know how to use them, I personally don't have an interest in packing a rifle around every time I am in the woods, year 'round. And I wouldn't trust a sidearm (even a .45) to quickly kill an animal as large as a Sasquatch from any likely range. So that leaves people like me with a few alternatives: Either determine to shoot a Sasquatch that is encountered during legal hunting seasons, shoot one if seen from a vehicle while driving back roads, or see one while hiking or camping without a rifle and simply watch it walk away.

 

Since it really is a numbers game, how about forming up a drive through a likely watershed or wooded patch? Many wolves were killed in this manner in historical times in Europe. Kalispel Indians used drives to hunt deer in the Fall as recently as the 1940s. Hunters in the east and midwest have used drives as well to push deer past waiting hunters (though I don't know if it is still considered legal there.)

 

It seems that there are isolated wooded areas surrounded by populated regions, farms or open land (Southern Ohio and Florida come to mind) where there is a lot of Sasquatch activity that would make good locations for a drive. If Sasquatch were there the drivers would either see something, or people watching the edge of surrounding fields would see something escaping the drivers. There might even be likely locations in your neck of the woods, Norseman. Non-gunning "pro kill" advocates could effectively participate in a drive. Not everyone would need to know how to properly use a rifle or be armed.

 

A drive of unarmed participants could also push game and Sasquatch past trail cams or other evidence-gathering technology.

 

Imagine a thousand people, spread 10-feet apart in a line, walking through a nearly two mile wide swath of ground. If Sasquatch were there, they would HAVE to be seen or driven into view. Regardless, it would make for an interesting media event.

[norseman]

While I understand your logic, Norseman (if it's OK that I horn in on your topic with bipto), I have an issue with expecting every "kill" proponent to go around armed with a weapon capable of killing a 600 pound animal.

 

Some people like to hunt and have no problem personally killing a warm-blooded animal. But some people won't do either.

 

For years I didn't hunt or kill anything myself. I had nothing against people who hunted and the thought of it even interested me in a manner, but I did not own any firearms and had no experience with them.

 

That changed when I married a woman who lives for deer hunting. She introduced me to hunting and I found that I have an innate interest and desire to hunt (deer). I also discovered a love for firearms (rifles and handguns) and an interest in learning how to use them effectively for hunting and self-defense.

 

But even though I own firearms and know how to use them, I personally don't have an interest in packing a rifle around every time I am in the woods, year 'round. And I wouldn't trust a sidearm (even a .45) to quickly kill an animal as large as a Sasquatch from any likely range. So that leaves people like me with a few alternatives: Either determine to shoot a Sasquatch that is encountered during legal hunting seasons, shoot one if seen from a vehicle while driving back roads, or see one while hiking or camping without a rifle and simply watch it walk away.

 

Since it really is a numbers game, how about forming up a drive through a likely watershed or wooded patch? Many wolves were killed in this manner in historical times in Europe. Kalispel Indians used drives to hunt deer in the Fall as recently as the 1940s. Hunters in the east and midwest have used drives as well to push deer past waiting hunters (though I don't know if it is still considered legal there.)

 

It seems that there are isolated wooded areas surrounded by populated regions, farms or open land (Southern Ohio and Florida come to mind) where there is a lot of Sasquatch activity that would make good locations for a drive. If Sasquatch were there the drivers would either see something, or people watching the edge of surrounding fields would see something escaping the drivers. There might even be likely locations in your neck of the woods, Norseman. Non-gunning "pro kill" advocates could effectively participate in a drive. Not everyone would need to know how to properly use a rifle or be armed.

 

A drive of unarmed participants could also push game and Sasquatch past trail cams or other evidence-gathering technology.

 

Imagine a thousand people, spread 10-feet apart in a line, walking through a nearly two mile wide swath of ground. If Sasquatch were there, they would HAVE to be seen or driven into view. Regardless, it would make for an interesting media event.

 

A) Why not? Why do you not have an interest in packing a rifle around in the woods each time you go out?

 

We have discussed the drive scenario, a couple of problems with that is that there are some concerns with not working as a team up close and personal and shot angles (discussed below). The bigger issue to even get it off the ground is where are you gonna find 1000 people to go on a Bigfoot drive? Even if you could work out the safety details, my personal experience is that your not going to get anywhere near that many people to participate. Which then negates the whole strategy. Your probably going to get more like ten people to volunteer, and that's not enough for a successful drive.

 

On top of all of this? Squatch isn't a deer........what if instead of being driven to the hunters, he instead turns and fights? Now you have people unarmed with no training in a hand melee with a pissed off ape, with all of the shooters down on one end that have no shot because the Squatch is between them and the drivers.

 

The military uses "sweep and clear" tactics, but all of the "drivers" are armed with rifles and can bring combined arms to bear against the enemy if the enemy turns and fights.

 

With our numbers being extremely low, I think there are better tactics we can employ that make it much safer for all team members while still giving a chance for success.

[Guest]

 I have an issue with expecting every "kill" proponent to go around armed with a weapon capable of killing a 600 pound animal.

 

Some people like to hunt and have no problem personally killing a warm-blooded animal. But some people won't do either.

 

 

 

Also, remember we're talking about an animal that will probably only give you a 3-5 second look at itself and may be walking on two legs and probably not in broad daylight. If you see one, it won't be like the PGF. It'll be fleeting and your mind will try to make it something else (like, maybe a person) and that will impact how quickly you could draw a bead and take a shot. 

 

I've been part of countless conversations about this already with those within my group. I've been up one side of that street and down the other. I know who I am and where I stand on the subject. 

[Guest Rick1013]

Norse, I like traveling light in the woods. Lugging a 7-8 pound rifle around (except when hunting) just isn't appealing to me. But then I am not usually in the woods for the express purpose of seeing a Sasquatch. I am typically just there for personal enjoyment.

 

I was being facetious when mentioning a thousand-person drive. I don't have experience in trying to do anything remotely like this. Though if the Finding Bigfoot people REALLY wanted to find Bigfoot, they could likely pull something like this together. It would be worth it to them just for the publicity.

 

In all the recorded sightings going back many years, there have never been any (legit ones, anyway) where a Sasquatch turned and attacked anyone. I wouldn't be worried that a Sasquatch would attack a member of a drive party, even if they managed to encounter one.

 

As for tactics for a smaller group, lone hunters (or with a partner) are able to call predators into range and grunt/bleat/rattle bucks into range. I wonder if a small team has ever tried wood-knocking or calling a Sasquatch into view. I don't mean trying to get one to physically approach the caller close-up, but observers/hunters positioned 100 yards or so downwind might be able to see a curious one approach discretely in order to get a better view of who/what is making the racket. This could be recorded using night vision/FLIR technology after dark.

 

Wrapping-up, there is no need for any of us to try to change anyone else's decision about shooting or not. The more observations and reports that are made, the more likely someone else investigating or hunting Sasquatch will know where to go in order to find themselves in the right place at the right time.

 

Good luck, guys.

[norseman]

Just a shameless plug here:

 

I've decided to promote and open up Project Grendel to the open public. So basically the "Kill Club" thread is now on serious steroids. Please read the mission statement before posting.

 

Thanks.

[norseman]

Norse, I like traveling light in the woods. Lugging a 7-8 pound rifle around (except when hunting) just isn't appealing to me. But then I am not usually in the woods for the express purpose of seeing a Sasquatch. I am typically just there for personal enjoyment.

 

I was being facetious when mentioning a thousand-person drive. I don't have experience in trying to do anything remotely like this. Though if the Finding Bigfoot people REALLY wanted to find Bigfoot, they could likely pull something like this together. It would be worth it to them just for the publicity.

 

In all the recorded sightings going back many years, there have never been any (legit ones, anyway) where a Sasquatch turned and attacked anyone. I wouldn't be worried that a Sasquatch would attack a member of a drive party, even if they managed to encounter one.

 

As for tactics for a smaller group, lone hunters (or with a partner) are able to call predators into range and grunt/bleat/rattle bucks into range. I wonder if a small team has ever tried wood-knocking or calling a Sasquatch into view. I don't mean trying to get one to physically approach the caller close-up, but observers/hunters positioned 100 yards or so downwind might be able to see a curious one approach discretely in order to get a better view of who/what is making the racket. This could be recorded using night vision/FLIR technology after dark.

 

Wrapping-up, there is no need for any of us to try to change anyone else's decision about shooting or not. The more observations and reports that are made, the more likely someone else investigating or hunting Sasquatch will know where to go in order to find themselves in the right place at the right time.

 

Good luck, guys.

 

Ok then go buy a hand cannon..........

 

 

I personally like my guide gun better!

 

Also, there are accounts of Squatch killing someone.........Teddy Roosevelt comes to mind.

[Guest Rick1013]

I joined the Project Grendel Forum (PGF?) just before receiving your "shameless plug". Glad to be part of the conversation and more...

Edited May 30, 2013 by Rick1013

[norseman]

I just joined the Project Grendel Forum (PGF?) just before receiving your "shameless plug". Glad to be part of the conversation and more...

 

And I approved your membership!

 

Bon Apetite!