Release Of Forensic Dna Results For Sierra Kills Sample

[Guest]

Does anyone remember if Derek ever saw the piece that Justin sent to Melba? I'm trying to recall if Justin found it and sent it to Melba without Derek ever seeing it. If Derek saw it then he can probably tell if it looked like what was in that photo and if it looks like what Bart and Tyler received. I can't imagine that Derek didn't at least see a good photo of it.

I remember thinking at the time it was very odd that Justin said that photo was of what he sent Melba and Melba said it definitely was not. I don't recall if or what Derek said about it.

[Guest Cervelo]

Is Justin still planning on a book with more details?

[Guest]

I think I will just sit back and watch all this play out. I still retain a certain amount of expectation and respect for the coming results from Dr Ketchum,and I appreciate the effort that was put forth in this latest testing. However I do not think its time to draw any conclusions yet. There are all sorts of possibilities of potential contamination here, and I say that because I think Justin is leaving large parts of the story out when he tells it. A more thorough and complete analyses from additional labs just might be a little more exciting. I don't think anyone is stupid enough in this day and age to present a chunk of bear meat, attempting to fool a scientific lab. However, I do believe there is a very good possibility this sample was passed around some, dealt with poorly, and easily contaminated before any researcher got hold of it. Patience.

[georgerm]

The plot thickens................................and the truth begins to morph like smoke in the wind..........who knows what really happened!

"We only know what we received from Justin, and what the results of the polygraph were, when we asked him if the tissue was all from the same piece. His answer was that they were from the same piece, and the polygraph said there were no signs of deception in that answer. This is all in the release statement as well. In that statement, I also acknowledged that Melba claims her samples look different than ours. Justin disputes this. "

This explains the mistaken identiy theory.

The statement that he went back to the site and found tissue, then sent it off, and it comes back bear DNA, only has so many explanations. Can someone list them?

Hey George - If you are who I think you are, you knew of this story from the beginning - I think you know that any hunter at the level that Justin hunts at, then mistaken identity is not really much of an option.

PS - see my new signature, as I keep having to refer people to that link, to answer the same questions about what I believe for possible scenarios.

Yes, I was reading the early stories. The mistaken idenity theory also clears you of being hoaxed.

Justin by no means is an old bear hunting guide. Mistaken idenity happens all the time when hunters shoot other hunters.

How long between spotting the bear/bf and shooting it? Refresh us about the boot blood...........thanks....

[Guest wudewasa]

I'm not calling Justin a liar about shooting sasquatches, but the DNA says "BEAR!" LOL

[Guest]

All of the "I shot a bigfoot" stories include the old chestnuts about how human-looking the bigfoot was and how freaked out about shooting something so human the shooter was. The shooter's state of mind after killing said bigfoot is usually given as the reason why no identifiable piece of the beast is ever brought back from the encounter to provide proof of the claim. Little more than a show of anxiety is needed to convince the impressionable of the veracity of the claim.

In Smeja's case, the claim includes the story that he did bring a piece back (eventually). We now know that the piece he provided was not from a bigfoot (whatever a bigfoot is), it was from a bear. Take a look at that piece, folks. Does that "steak" thing look like it came from something human? No, of course not. Smeja - the great bear poacher - claims that that steak thingie came from one of the bigfoots he shot - the same bigfoots he said were so human that he was unable to bring himself to bring one of them in, or at least bring in a hand, foot, finger, etc. Riiiight.

I'm sorry if you were taken in by this guy's story, and I suppose the "you" I'm referring to is a lot of people here, but this thing was bollocks from day one. The only lesson to be learned from it is to crank your baloney detectors up to 11 the next time you hear someone make a fantastic claim that is not immediately followed up with " . . . and here it is".

[indiefoot]

Maybe there is some poor schmuck that got his BF sample crossed with Justins and he was told it was a bear.

[Guest Tyler H]

Tyler, this is from the other Sierra Kills thread:

Has this piece of bone been tested? An osteologist should have been able to tell if it was bear, human, or something else very quickly and easily.

I was there when that bone was found. I believe you are quoting Derek Randles there (forgive me if I'm mistaken).

My personal impression was that the bone was associated with hair/fur that was very deer-like in nature.

Excellent question. I've been wondering the same thing.

I also asked once whether any hair experts have tried to identify the sample based on morphology. I would think that would be relatively cut and dried (excuse the pun). If there was an answer, I missed it.

Yes, the release statement says that I had three PhD's look at the morphology - all said "not primate"

[Guest Thepattywagon]

Saskeptic, the only problem is that Ketchum refuted the posted pics as resembling the sample she received and tested. I am not going to assume that everything came from the same piece of meat.

Tyler, was Justin ever asked if he wore rubber gloves when handling the piece of hide he retrieved at the scene three weeks after the shooting?

As I recall, he said he divided the thing up; gave Driver a piece as well. Does Driver still have his sample to your knowledge?

Edited December 27, 2012 by Thepattywagon

[Guest]

Pattywagon you said:

But the only problem is that Ketchum refuted the posted pics as resembling the sample she received and tested

If Melba can not discuss which samples she is using for her paper (as has been discussed by her supporters) then I would think she could not identify the sample by photos - publicly - either.. So, I think it's very likely Melba's sample is from the same piece of flesh - but she can't confirm or deny that in any way shape or form - due to her own comments about not being able to disclose information about the samples..

Just an option to consider.

[Guest Scout1959]

I was there when that bone was found. I believe you are quoting Derek Randles there (forgive me if I'm mistaken).

My personal impression was that the bone was associated with hair/fur that was very deer-like in nature.

Yes, the release statement says that I had three PhD's look at the morphology - all said "not primate"

Was the location at a natural spot (topography wise) for animals to cross the road?

If so that might explain how it is that a bear and a deer corpse were in the same area. Animals get hit by cars all of the time and struggle off and die nearby.

Even if it's not a common crossing point, finding dead critters along a road with woods on either side isn't particularly surprising.

[bipedalist]

Actually there was discussion the piece was sectioned a dozen or more times and distributed for safe keeping Iirc. Heck I even heard of offers to auction sections off.

Edited December 27, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest slimwitless]

Yes, the release statement says that I had three PhD's look at the morphology - all said "not primate"

Okay, then. I guess Justin found a small chunk of bear that looks and smells like the creature he claims to have shot at the same location he heard the creature crash violently into the forest.

[Guest]

So I suppose the mDNA result of Eastern Europe and the Caucasus from Melba and the two labs Bart and Tyler went to - are just a coincidence?

Also, Tyler says Melba never asked Justin for a sample of his own DNA. When she seen the "Eastern Europe and the Caucasus" result in the mDNA why wouldn't that be the very next thing she did?

Because she probably never used it in the study,

saying justin matching Eastern Europe and the Caucasus odd, is like saying someone has the same color hair is odd.

Pattywagon you said:

If Melba can not discuss which samples she is using for her paper (as has been discussed by her supporters) then I would think she could not identify the sample by photos - publicly - either.. So, I think it's very likely Melba's sample is from the same piece of flesh - but she can't confirm or deny that in any way shape or form - due to her own comments about not being able to disclose information about the samples..

Just an option to consider.

that's not correct, she said when RL posted it that it wasn't the same, That's a fact. what dispute follows from justin claiming it was, I guess will be sorted out in time.

Edited December 27, 2012 by zigoapex

[Guest]

Why is that odd? Do you think the lab lied about the results of Justin's DNA test? Yes, Justin sent in his own DNA sample. I think the results make perfect sense to me.

I don't know what happened that day - but I can't stray from what Tyler and Bart have put forth as the evidence from these labs - that to me makes no sense. Either we want the help of these people and accept their conclusions or we don't.

This is not a conspiracy against Melba. Bart and Tyler did the work we all say we want to see be done when samples or evidence are collected - and now we don't believe them when they put it out? Then what is the point of doing anything past the point of talking?

I don't know Tyler from Adam, but I can see no reason for him to come here and make things up. He is also not saying anything I have not heard from Bart directly. I have known Bart for many years - and he would not lie to me, nor has he ever. The results are a disappointment for all - but they are what they are. This whole thing came at great time and expense to these guys - but most importantly - they did the right thing.

C'mon...