Release Of Forensic Dna Results For Sierra Kills Sample

[Guest]

All along, I had actually assumed that Melba had specialized primers and/or methodologies. In fact, I tried to advocate for the need for specialized primers with the Trent University lab. But, in recent conversations with Melba, I was very surprised that she essentially assured me that it had nothing to do with primers.

She DID claim that her tissue is different than ours, and I do have pretty reliable information that indeed, the methodologies used are quite different than the ones that my lab and likely even Bart's lab used. In time, only the science will tell, once she makes her release.

After some thought I was able to reconcile that this way - yes, the hide was discovered in November, but we had no way of knowing when that animal actually expired. It could have expired long before that, when winter was not as imminent.

Just throwing something out there...

Would there be a benefit to Melba NOT divulging that indeed the primers were a key factor?

If that is the case, I can see a reason for her being deceptive concerning.

[Guest]

Without scientific proof the evidence points to a hoax.

No, the scientific evidence points to the sample coming from a bear. Nothing more. Nothing about the lab finding "proves" that Smeja is not telling the truth.

The fact that you have publicity supported the story makes you a less reliable party as your reputation now is dependent on the trust you have put into someone without scientific proof. Your reputation is now actually more at risk than his.

Why? Is he not entitled to accept what accounts he will w/o his integrity being questioned?

At this point you have two choices: Continue to support him and risk your reputation when the truth is uncovered (it may be already) or reverse your support and try to save your reputation.

I wish you luck.

A little premature, since you have not even come close to proving any claim that Smeja's story is a "hoax".

We also know that DNA test results came back as the sample being bear. People are forgetting this repeatedly as of late.

We are all quite aware of that wude...as aware as you are (admit it or not) that there has not been any showing linking the scrap to any shot BF. There was HOPE that it was from one of the bodies, but you're trying to put words in their mouths claiming more than that.

I'm not calling Justin a liar about shooting sasquatches, but the DNA says "BEAR!" LOL

Leaving the implication that he is lying...which is nothing but a "fig leaf" cover. We all understand quite well what you are carefully "not saying".

Edited December 29, 2012 by Mulder

[Guest wudewasa]

We are all quite aware of that wude...as aware as you are (admit it or not) that there has not been any showing linking the scrap to any shot BF. There was HOPE that it was from one of the bodies, but you're trying to put words in their mouths claiming more than that.

Mulder, you need to seriously check yourself when telling me how to interpret evidence and respond - I'm not a ventriloquist.

Bear DNA is the only physical evidence that has been released to us. The rest are stories open to fantastic speculation that some BFF members are famous for. Bart seems to have some interesting video, and I'm looking forward to him sharing that with us when he's ready.

HOPE is not a PLAN!

[Guest]

All of the "I shot a bigfoot" stories include the old chestnuts about how human-looking the bigfoot was and how freaked out about shooting something so human the shooter was. The shooter's state of mind after killing said bigfoot is usually given as the reason why no identifiable piece of the beast is ever brought back from the encounter to provide proof of the claim. Little more than a show of anxiety is needed to convince the impressionable of the veracity of the claim.

Or it could also be that they are anxious because of the extraordinary event they were a part of and the ramifications/implications of that event...but that would not suit your personal line of thought, now would it?

In Smeja's case, the claim includes the story that he did bring a piece back (eventually).

Of something that MIGHT have been from one of the bodies.

We now know that the piece he provided was not from a bigfoot (whatever a bigfoot is), it was from a bear.

Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

No, of course not. Smeja - the great bear poacher - claims that that steak thingie came from one of the bigfoots he shot

Prove it.

- the same bigfoots he said were so human that he was unable to bring himself to bring one of them in, or at least bring in a hand, foot, finger, etc. Riiiight.

How would you react under those conditions? He had a very human reaction, one shared by other witnesses who either accidently shot one or who drew down on one but didn't take the shot.

I'm sorry if you were taken in by this guy's story, and I suppose the "you" I'm referring to is a lot of people here, but this thing was bollocks from day one. The only lesson to be learned from it is to crank your baloney detectors up to 11 the next time you hear someone make a fantastic claim that is not immediately followed up with " . . . and here it is".

Back to the old "slab monkey" absolutism, Sas? Oh, and nice condescension.

Mulder, you need to seriously check yourself when telling me how to interpret evidence and respond - I'm not a ventriloquist.

No, just continuing to imply something the facts don't justify.

Bear DNA is the only physical evidence that has been released to us.

No one denies that. Now show me how that proves Smeja in fact did NOT shoot BFs.

Bart seems to have some interesting video, and I'm looking forward to him sharing that with us when he's ready.

HOPE is not a PLAN!

And "bear" is not proof that Smeja didn't shoot BFs.

[Guest wudewasa]

There's no current physical evidence that Smeja shot sasquatches. You want to believe an unsubstantiated story, that's your downward spiral to dance.

All we know is that the DNA sample that was submitted came back as originating from a bear. As far as what Ketchum or anyone else is rumored to have analyzed, it's conjecture until her work is published. The conclusions that some folks here are jumping to are getting quite silly.

[georgerm]

This latest development is a blow to many of us who have spent so much time in the field or forum. We seem scattered with disbelief and are groping for answers. How could this happen? Frustration is causing tempers to flair. Skeptics are gloating. It seems as if the spirit of BF does not want to be known. BF's invisible force seems to fight every effort to bring in evidence. Does BF want to be discovered?

Those who get involved sometimes become figures of mockery, or find themselves in a black hole as Justin has. Do we quit? No, our curosity drives us to know all we can absorb about BF.

One positive note is this story seems to remain in a tight circle, and the news media isn't making us look like fools...........yet.

What we can do now is look to the future and hope that the two existing DNA studies work out. Then what?

Edited December 29, 2012 by georgerm

[Guest BartloJays]

What we can do now is look to the future and hope that the two existing DNA studies work out. Then what?

What we do is persevere and realize the goal of discovery is well within our grasp. More so than it's ever been matter of fact...especially with respect to technology (every aspect) and its availability. Think about today and as little as 20 yrs ago...really what did we have to successfully document them visually if attempting to counter their nocturnal tendencies? I really don't care what they are but I can tell you they are real and they have vulnerabilities we can exploit (evidentially speaking) if we learn from our mistakes and work together to maximize each others strengths through communication (internet is huge). The joke of a historical evidence record we have overall ("collectively"... let's be honest) can be very quickly reshaped looking back from tomorrow.

I'm not asking anyone to take my word for it but if you do, everything I've seen with my own eyes justifies the questions of viability and why we stand where we do today. I'm re-energized and feel like I'm just getting started as I see opportunity.....opportunities I don't think we had a handful of years ago.

Edited December 29, 2012 by BartloJays

[Guest slimwitless]

It just occurred to me that I did not see a picture of a PCR gel for the universal primers. Did you a get a picture of that gel(s) from Trent? Was there one band in each lane, or more than one band?

Genes, any chance you can you tell us why that may be important?

[Guest Cervelo]

Still this....right?

[bipedalist]

Just throwing something out there...

Would there be a benefit to Melba NOT divulging that indeed the primers were a key factor?

If that is the case, I can see a reason for her being deceptive concerning.

Perhaps patent pending?!

[Guest]

There's no current physical evidence that Smeja shot sasquatches.

No one is denying that.

You want to believe an unsubstantiated story, that's your downward spiral to dance.

So we should believe your unsubstantiated story that he in fact did not?

All we know is that the DNA sample that was submitted came back as originating from a bear.

And that proves Smeja didn't shoot sas how?

[Guest slimwitless]

Still this....right?

I don't know. Color seems off.

[bipedalist]

Is that salted meat?

[Guest Tyler H]

This latest development is a blow to many of us who have spent so much time in the field or forum. We seem scattered with disbelief and are groping for answers. How could this happen? Frustration is causing tempers to flair. Skeptics are gloating. It seems as if the spirit of BF does not want to be known. BF's invisible force seems to fight every effort to bring in evidence. Does BF want to be discovered?

One positive note is this story seems to remain in a tight circle, and the news media isn't making us look like fools...........yet.

George - I have faith in our results - but again, they are not infallible - if someone can show us why Melba is succeeding where we failed, I'm all for it. I am not saying that everyone should give up all hope that Melba has any definitive proof/evidence.

I guess the media could make us look like fools, but I think of it this way:

Had Bart and I, and the people that supported me (Justin, Gary Cronin) done nothing, then we would be worth mocking. We would have been waiting with blind faith in Melba, despite some red flags. And, if her results turn out to be invalid, then the community would really have been mocked.

The way it has played out instead gives us two benefits:

• Melba is aware of our results, and can re-examine her own data, and make sure she is confident of her conclusions.
  
• The world will know that we are somewhat self-policing, and are getting better and better at integrating real hard science into our search, rather than relying on anecdotes. They will see our transparency, diligence, and objectivity. Sure, a lot of media will choose to overlook these aspects, but we can hold our heads high that we are trying to do things the right way.
  

[Guest Cervelo]

Mulder,

What's required in your opinion a vid of Justin not shooting a Bigfoot?

Or some convoluted story of mixed up samples with bear meat or some weird plot to fake out Bart and Tyler.

He claims he shot Bigfoot and submitted samples he claims are from Bigfoot, opps it's a bear.

It's really that simple and those are the facts... DNA irrefutable proof right?