Release Of Forensic Dna Results For Sierra Kills Sample

[Guest]

Justin was on the squatchers lounge podcast last night. One thing he said was that Ketchum never got any of his DNA for comparison unless she somehow got it from another lab or something. Tammy Murray was also a guest and she talked about her talk with Paulides.

I don't think I can post the podcast here because there is language not allowed here, but you can search youtube for the squatchers lounge podcast 2.

I'm actually listening to it now and Justin just said that he will release his statement this week. He said he has been very busy with work and has not had time to do it.

[Guest]

On Sunday's Bigfoot Tonight podcast (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/bigfoottonightshow/2013/01/28/special-guest-bart-cutino), I think I heard Bart imply that the impetus for their testing was Ketchum telling Smeja that another lab would likely come up with known animal results.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Pteronarcyd

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

These DNA reports don't put Dr. Ketchum's claim to the test. If it was the same sample, tested using the same methods, it would be a different story!

[Guest]

By what methodological changes does one transmute a species' DNA?

Edited January 29, 2013 by Pteronarcyd

[Guest]

On Sunday's Bigfoot Tonight podcast (http://www.blogtalkr...est-bart-cutino), I think I heard Bart imply that the impetus for their testing was Ketchum telling Smeja that another lab would likely come up with known animal results.

That would be one explanation for the cryptic comments from Bart, Justin, Robert Lindsay, et al about the comment from MK to JS that triggered (or maybe contributed to) the collapse in confidence in the MK study.

Bart or Tyler - feel like commenting...? Pretty please?

:-)

These DNA reports don't put Dr. Ketchum's claim to the test. If it was the same sample, tested using the same methods, it would be a different story!

That's the scientific equivalent of giving me an address, but adding that if I take a different route I'll end up in a different place...

Any chance you can expand on why you think the 'method' is the key in this instance? Something to do with the primers MK developed?

[Guest slimwitless]

On Sunday's Bigfoot Tonight podcast (http://www.blogtalkr...est-bart-cutino), I think I heard Bart imply that the impetus for their testing was Ketchum telling Smeja that another lab would likely come up with known animal results.

Maybe that explains this comment by Lindsay back when he was still allowed to post here.

This is linked to Ketchum's statement, "There is an animal in the Pacific NW which has some genes that are only found in humans and some genes that are only found in animals." Presumably a reference to the samples above.

See? Now everything is reconciled.

[david75090]

One group tests the sample and says it's "bear". MK tests the sample and she possibly says, "Sasquatch". The answer must be somewhere in between. "BearFoot".

[Guest]

Ketchum's silence speaks volumes to me. She was all over the place talking about her study and how wonderful and overkill her test results are until Tyler/Bart released their results.. Why so quiet now? Not even a peep and now its become months, not weeks and no word from her.

[Guest]

Wasn't it now months ago that Ketchum said publication was weeks, not months, away?

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Yup, she sure did. At the time it seemed too good to be true....and it was. Maybe if she said months instead of years...

[Guest]

Exactly, it was weeks away until these results became public, then she went silent and now its been months and no paper, unless you count the national examiner. Seems to me Tyler and Bart's results threw a monkey wrench into her project.

[Guest Tyler H]

Exactly, it was weeks away until these results became public, then she went silent and now its been months and no paper, unless you count the national examiner. Seems to me Tyler and Bart's results threw a monkey wrench into her project.

Again, we were and are, hoping she will release her results. We were not trying to de-rail her efforts.

If she now delays her results for any reasons, we will be even more disappointed.

While Ketchum's results sound good on the surface, the amount of data generated by the Illumina testing methods, really requires extremely critical, meticulous parsing by people with very specialized skill sets (in particular, bioinformaticists). Until this data is very thoroughly vetted to insure that the conclusions are not based on artifacts in the sequencing efforts (possibly due to contamination), no one can say what the conclusions should be. There is no consensus that the Illumina testing methods are more accurate than traditional PCR methods - in fact the massive amounts of data seem to make it more open to interpretation in some cases. What it is better at, is identifying all sources of DNA in a sample. That includes bacteria, etc. But apparently it can be tricky to delineate what DNA has come from what source (contributor) in the sample.

That would be one explanation for the cryptic comments from Bart, Justin, Robert Lindsay, et al about the comment from MK to JS that triggered (or maybe contributed to) the collapse in confidence in the MK study.

Bart or Tyler - feel like commenting...? Pretty please?

:-)

That's the scientific equivalent of giving me an address, but adding that if I take a different route I'll end up in a different place...

Any chance you can expand on why you think the 'method' is the key in this instance? Something to do with the primers MK developed?

Re Justin/Lindsay etc ... I'm gonna leave that alone. Justin will say his peace when he wants (and he says that will be soon.)

"That's the scientific equivalent of giving me an address, but adding that if I take a different route I'll end up in a different place..."

excellent analogy - there is no reason that different methods should give different answers. There is only one right answer to math calculations that involve addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. You can perform the calculation several ways... but only only a limited number of methods will get you to the right answer.

Edited January 29, 2013 by Tyler H

[Guest]

Ketchum's silence speaks volumes to me. She was all over the place talking about her study and how wonderful and overkill her test results are until Tyler/Bart released their results.. Why so quiet now? Not even a peep and now its become months, not weeks and no word from her.

Lends credence to the notion that Smeja's sample was a centerpiece in her study.

[Guest]

We were not trying to de-rail her efforts.

Beware unintended consequences. If there is a Ketchum paper that has been undergoing peer review for more than 30 mo, and if you were a skittish peer reviewer and learned of a split sample being determined to be a black bear, would you recommend immediate publication or, at best, to proceed with extreme caution.

Justin will say his peace when he wants (and he says that will be soon.)

We've been hearing that for a month. Playing hide the weenie is a great way to lose credibility, and Justin doesn't have credibility to waste. By the way, we've been hearing Bart's lab results are imminent for a month, too.

Edited January 30, 2013 by Pteronarcyd

[Guest]

Has or does anyone close to Justin Smeja now counsel him not to release his detailed statement

or do they still encourage him to do so as he said?

I'll try again.

Have any of you, Bart, Tyler and/or Derek, counseled Justin Smeja regarding his still-coming-soon statement in any way at all?

Do any and all of you encourage him to do so as he said would do?

He said a month ago that his detailed statement was forthcoming immediately.

It's been a month now.

Bart says Justin has just been crazy busy with work, and apparently Justin says he has just been crazy busy with work...

Bart, and Tyler too, to their credit, have **** near written books and spent hours here since they openly declared the results of their testing...

Derek's a working man... and he's been busy too... but has also found time to contribute openly...

but Justin has been very, very busy... much too busy to shed any further light on this spotlight of attention lately...

but now Justin says his statement is coming this week.

Justin, since you are already a member here, if i remember catching that here, will you be willing to discuss this here?