Hoaxes, Hoaxers, Frauds, And Con-Men In The Bigfoot Community

[Guest RayG]

Suspicions, accusations and sour grapes from rival researchers- that doesn't fit the bill of "factual information" does it?

Suspicions, accusations, and sour grapes that were recorded as written correspondence and referenced in a book about bigfoot.

Your claim is hoaxing- I want to see your factual information of actual hoaxing. Unpaid bills means hoaxing? Since when? People get distracted, people get lazy- it happens every day with millions of people. Im not seeing the whole story here- what is Morgan's side of the story? Did Blu Buh's add that to his book? Or is this yet another one-sided viewpoint?

Blu Buhs seems to consider Morgan more of a con artist than a hoaxer, and writes... "Morgan's actions were those of a con artist."

Morgan also flogged cassette tapes on how to interact with and attract sasquatches. I know because he sent me one. No sasquatch was ever bagged and classified by anyone listening to his audio-tape.

Byrne has a long history of throwing other researchers under the bus and trying to make them look bad, that's why I take his word with a grain of salt.

But it wasn't just Byrne. It was also Edward W. Killam, Isadore Hanken, Laymond Hardy, Thomas L. Kimball, and Edward J. Lehman.

Were you aware of any of this before this thread?

RayG

[roguefooter]

Suspicions, accusations, and sour grapes that were recorded as written correspondence and referenced in a book about bigfoot.

Blu Buhs seems to consider Morgan more of a con artist than a hoaxer, and writes... "Morgan's actions were those of a con artist."

Morgan also flogged cassette tapes on how to interact with and attract sasquatches. I know because he sent me one. No sasquatch was ever bagged and classified by anyone listening to his audio-tape.

But it wasn't just Byrne. It was also Edward W. Killam, Isadore Hanken, Laymond Hardy, Thomas L. Kimball, and Edward J. Lehman.

Were you aware of any of this before this thread?

RayG

Ray, have you ever worked in a job with other people? Then you would know that people have a tendency to group and side with certain supervisors or authority. It's called sucking up. When the boss doesn't like a guy, who do the others tend to side with? It's all politics Ray, and everybody knows that politics don't equal the truth.

Blu Buhs formed a negative opinion of Morgan- and what is that supposed to mean in terms of factual information?

I'm not interested in talk- that doesn't equal proof of anything. Real evidence of hoaxing or otherwise- now that's what we're talking about here.

I have no problem with people stating their opinion. If this list of yours was just an opinion then big deal. The problem is that you're stating it as factual information and this is completely false. It's total irony when looking at your avatar saying "PROVE IT".

Morgan's tapes and books- I know them. This is supposed to mean what outside of your opinion?

Edited January 7, 2013 by roguefooter

[norseman]

But isn't that like someone saying they've never been in a car accident as long as they didn't cause the accident? Green isn't hoaxing now, but he hoaxed then.

Pssssttt... the PGF isn't on the list.

RayG

No, absolutely not.

If I tell you one of my "fishing stories" around the campfire tongue in cheek........that doesn't mean that I'm a fat liar out to get you or your pocket book.

I mean if your list is going to list John Green next to Tom Biscardi then it's worthless.

Tom Biscardi is going to lie to you at every turn and oh yah he is ABSOLUTELY after your pocket book.

Ray, if I lie to you to get you to your own surprise birthday party? And that makes me a liar in your eyes? Then maybe you are Vulcan.

In fact I feel right now like I'm Capt. Kirk and your Spock and I'm trying to explain to you the nuances of the human experience.

An April fool's joke is a April fool's joke, and for the record my local paper did a Bigfoot April fool's joke one year as well.........as for the author? She doesn't even believe in Bigfoot.........and yet would make your list as a Bigfoot hoaxer.

Maybe you need an A-B-C list.

[Guest wudewasa]

Norseman, I always likened you to Riker! lol

Ray,

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes."- Obi Wan Kenobi

Edited January 7, 2013 by wudewasa

[Guest]

I think Spock would include the total membership of this Forum on his hoaxing list. lol

ps. how does one make a raised eyebrows symbol?

[Guest RayG]

Ray, have you ever worked in a job with other people? Then you would know that people have a tendency to group and side with certain supervisors or authority. It's called sucking up. When the boss doesn't like a guy, who do the others tend to side with? It's all politics Ray, and everybody knows that politics don't equal the truth.

Byrne wasn't the boss, Morgan was. (he fired Byrne)

If the boss is a jerk, and employees aren't afraid to voice their opinions, then they do so. What is your evidence that none of this happened, or that Byrne and the rest of those people were lying?

Blu Buhs formed a negative opinion of Morgan- and what is that supposed to mean in terms of factual information?

There's no evidence that Blu Buhs had any pre-formed opinions about Morgan, his footnotes indicate he conducted research to try to determine what happened. Where is your evidence to the contrary?

I'm not interested in talk- that doesn't equal proof of anything. Real evidence of hoaxing or otherwise- now that's what we're talking about here.

Ironic, for that seems to be the mainstay of bigfoot evidence... talk but no proof. If you can present evidence showing that Blu Buhs was mistaken/lied/misrepresented information, then provide it. Otherwise you're just talking, and that doesn't equate to proof.

I have no problem with people stating their opinion. If this list of yours was just an opinion then big deal. The problem is that you're stating it as factual information and this is completely false. It's total irony when looking at your avatar saying "PROVE IT".

If you go back and look at the very first post, you'll see I have added a portion in large red letters, that says, in part...

...the material I'm presenting here is my own opinion...

It's an opinion based on material I have gathered from books, newspapers, and online sources. Material that is freely available to anyone who wishes to seek it out.

Morgan's tapes and books- I know them. This is supposed to mean what outside of your opinion?

It's supposed to mean that no sasquatch has ever been produced for study, identification, or classification, by using Morgan's tapes and books. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. What is your source for evidence to the contrary?

RayG

[Cisco]

If not already added:

Linda Newton-Perry and her blog, Bigfoot Ballyhoo

This lady is really over the top ....

[Rockape]

After reading Cervelo's post about the squirrels throwing rocks at him. I think squirrels should be added to the list. How many people have thought BF was throwing rocks at them, when it was actually squirrels. Probably a big joke in the squirrel community, "let's go make the humans think Bigfoot is throwing rocks at them".

[Guest thermalman]

LNP does have some interesting reports in her blog.

[Guest]

Whoever did the Temagami hoax

Edited January 7, 2013 by comncents

[Guest]

Dfoot?? I'm afraid to ask

[roguefooter]

Byrne wasn't the boss, Morgan was. (he fired Byrne)

If the boss is a jerk, and employees aren't afraid to voice their opinions, then they do so. What is your evidence that none of this happened, or that Byrne and the rest of those people were lying?

I love it- you're asking me to prove a negative.

You have yet to provide the evidence that any of it is truth.

There's no evidence that Blu Buhs had any pre-formed opinions about Morgan, his footnotes indicate he conducted research to try to determine what happened. Where is your evidence to the contrary?

Prove another negative, right?

What is the actual proof of your claims? That's all we want to see- proof of stealing, hoaxing, conning, etc. 'He said, she said' and author opinions do not qualify as proof. You should know this part by heart. It's even in your avatar.

Ironic, for that seems to be the mainstay of bigfoot evidence... talk but no proof. If you can present evidence showing that Blu Buhs was mistaken/lied/misrepresented information, then provide it. Otherwise you're just talking, and that doesn't equate to proof.

Why do you speak of irony when you have to yet to provide proof yourself? The burdon of proof still lies in your corner. You made the claims remember? Asking me to prove the opposite is deflecting.

If you go back and look at the very first post, you'll see I have added a portion in large red letters, that says, in part...

...the material I'm presenting here is my own opinion...

It's an opinion based on material I have gathered from books, newspapers, and online sources. Material that is freely available to anyone who wishes to seek it out.

You also stated this: " My 'agenda' is to point out some factual information."

So which is it? Just opinions? Or factual information? It's certainly not both.

It's supposed to mean that no sasquatch has ever been produced for study, identification, or classification, by using Morgan's tapes and books. That's not an opinion, that's a fact. What is your source for evidence to the contrary?

My source for evidence to the contrary? I made no claims.

Let's not stray from your claims, Ray. How exactly does this equate to hoaxing? Is there something about his tapes and books that have been proven to be deliberately false?

If I remember correctly, his books and tapes are purely about observation- not to produce anything.

Edited January 7, 2013 by roguefooter

[Guest Kerchak]

If he dug a footprint with his hand, then he faked it, it wasn't a real footprint, which he could have easily manufactured using his own foot. Aren't documentaries supposed to be factually accurate and contain no fictional elements?

RayG

Patterson never tried to pass it off as real and in fact he even told Krantz what he did. He didn't try to fool anyone. He simply made his own print to demonstrate 'bigfoot footprint' casting, which are different to human foot or bootprints, particularly in size and depth.

As to the P/G film, it's what brought me in fourty years ago. I have always thought it was real, but the one thing that bothered me was the fact he got the footage while trying to sell a movie

He didn't. His movie project was abandoned earlier that year. It didn't progress beyond May 1967. The PGF was filmed in late October 1967. Almost a half year gap. By October 1967 Patterson was making a documentary.....and he didn't even finish that either.

[Guest Theagenes]

I posted this in the Tarpit version, but I think that Bob H. has to be on this list by definition. If he's lying about being in the Patty suit then he's committing fraud related to a BF incident. If he's telling the truth, then he was willing participant in a hoax.

Either way he's a fraud or hoaxer.

[Drew]

Wasn't there a book out a year or two ago, about someone in Florida? There was a hullabaloo about the author knowing it was all made up.

Also, Creekfreak hoaxed people by having the tree stump's eyes color changed, and then passing it off as a Bigfoot with a helicopter.