The Existance Of Bigfoot: Is The Magical/paranormal/spiritual/supernatural Really Necessary?

[Guest LarryP]

How well is one's mental state who claims that they saw a spaceship land, and a BF walk down the ramp into the woods? I'd be pretty concerned, personally.

In light of the fact that there have been many credible and completely sane witnesses who had nothing to gain and quite a bit to lose who have simply reported what they witnessed, it's obvious that you're projecting your concerns onto them.

I don't think that makes me unreasonable, personally. I think it makes me a realist.

You're a "realist" based on your own personal perception based on what you have learned of what constitutes reality to you.

The same applies to me. So I am also a realist.

[norseman]

So they're dolphins then? Because dolphins are reasonably intelligent creatures and highly evolved and they don't seem to have this mythical "drive to kill all those less powerful than themselves" which I argue isn't something ingrained to humans either. But here's the thing about dolphins and, I suspect, Bigfoot: They ain't supernatural.

So Dolphins and Orcas don't attack and kill Sharks then? Or fish, seals, etc?

Self-defense and hunting for food. Your objection is rendered invalid.

have fun with your thread.......its not worth my time.

[Bonehead74]

I think you are still misunderstanding me. There are degrees of skepticism, and any claims of a paranormal Bigfoot should be held with a higher degree of skepticism than a claim of a Bigfoot just waltzing along a creek bed.

You're correct, I must still be misunderstanding you. When you say this:

Paranormal claims can be safely disregarded

you are making an absolute statement, leaving no room for skeptical inquiry. I agree that the more bizzare the claim, the closer the scrutiny of said claim should be. You did not say, "Paranormal claims can be safely disregarded if the witness is deemed untrustworthy or impaired, and careful examination reveals no evidence to support the claim itself.", which would be more in line with your second statement.

And, quite frankly, if that is what they were, I wouldn't be interested in them because it would be pointless. What I've seen is like a huge, upright ape. Didn't strike me as a demon, alien, ghost, zombie, or a vampire. Definitely didn't turn into a bear, then warp to level 5. Seemed like a huge, upright gorilla. I have a tough time thinking it could hop in the space cruiser, and hit light speed back to Niburu.

This is where you lose me. No one here is making claims such as those you offer. None of the so-called "paranormal bigfoot" witnesses I've met has claimed anything so outlandish as the examples you give. Seems a straw man.

I have met and interviewed credible witnesses who report strange light and sound anomalies, terminating lines of tracks, one who saw a creature run across a muddy patch of field and leave no prints, and two witnesses who admit to having seemingly bigfoot related "psychic/telepathic" experiences. I cannot rule out misinterpretation or misperception on the part of these witnesses, but I have no doubt they are being honest about the events as they perceived them.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Bonehead74

[Guest]

Fair enough....Yeah, my comment had a straw-manesque feel to it for sure. I just simply don't believe anyone who equates BF to a UFO event.

[Guest]

You are making an absolute statement, leaving no room for skeptical inquiry.

Where's the room for debate here?

A really tall humanoid ape-like creature living deep within the wilds undetected for centuries isn't outside the realm of possibility, and there is nothing within the laws of physics (past, current, or future) to prohibit such a thing. Still, any claims of seeing one should be regarded with high skepticism until all the reasonable alternatives are exhausted.

Claims of psychic abilities, or any other otherworldly encounters with Bigfoot and the paranormal bits can safely disregarded because there's nothing within the laws of physics which suggest that psychic abilities, or anything of that nature, are even remotely possible.

"Paranormal claims can be safely disregarded if the witness is deemed untrustworthy or impaired, and careful examination reveals no evidence to support the claim itself."

Let's say we have a person who reports seeing a Bigfoot in, for example, Yosemite State Park. A big Bigfoot from 10-10 1/2 foot tall was near his camp on a moonless night spotted by the light of their camp fire. Nothing unusuale about that, is there? But wait, there's more! The Bigfoot was also levitating four feet off of the ground, glowing radioactive green, juggling man-sized logs telepathically, and singing random Looney Toons show tunes.

If I'm there and I hear this claim the first thing I would ask is just how much they had to drink that night. And if the paranormal bits are a result of an alcohol induced hallucination than how much of the rest is trustworthy?

I have met and interviewed credible witnesses who report strange light and sound anomalies, terminating lines of tracks, one who saw a creature run across a muddy patch of field and leave no prints, and two witnesses who admit to having seemingly bigfoot related "psychic/telepathic" experiences. I cannot rule out misinterpretation or misperception on the part of these witnesses, but I have no doubt they are being honest about the events as they perceived them.

Just because they're being honest about the events doesn't mean that there aren't any rational explanations for what they witnessed.

For example I occasionally like to hike in a nearby swamp. It's not very big, but it has very low human traffic. This makes it an acceptable place to find wildlife tracks (before you ask, no I have never seen Bigfoot tracks there nor do I expect I would ever find tracks there unless someone planted them there) such as the plentiful amount of deer that live here.

Occasionally I find track ways that terminate with no explanation. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! It must be a paranormal deer from Alpha Centuri being picked up by their mother ship!!!

Or the tracks terminated because the deer started moving across more dry terrain.

Which do you honestly think is the more reasonable explanation?

Edited April 15, 2013 by Leftfoot

[Guest LarryP]

Exactly which "laws of physics" are you referring to?

[Sasfooty]

Claims of psychic abilities, or any other otherworldly encounters with Bigfoot and the paranormal bits can safely disregarded because there's nothing within the laws of physics which suggest that psychic abilities, or anything of that nature, are even remotely possible.

I think you need to go back & brush up on the laws of physics.

They may have some "new stuff" that would interest you.

[Guest]

Wait, let me guess. "Quantum physics", right?

Exactly which "laws of physics" are you referring to?

The laws of physics that you were probably not paying attention to in high school, although I had that stuff figured out back in elementary school. Physics was my favorite subject.

[Bonehead74]

Fair enough....Yeah, my comment had a straw-manesque feel to it for sure. I just simply don't believe anyone who equates BF to a UFO event.

No problem with that. I choose to investigate those cases and give them a fair hearing before ruling them out.

A really tall humanoid ape-like creature living deep within the wilds undetected for centuries isn't outside the realm of possibility, and there is nothing within the laws of physics (past, current, or future) to prohibit such a thing. Still, any claims of seeing one should be regarded with high skepticism until all the reasonable alternatives are exhausted.

Agreed.

I do find it interesting though, that you imply that actually seeing a bigfoot is not a reasonable alternative to explain why someone might think they saw a bigfoot.

Claims of psychic abilities, or any other otherworldly encounters with Bigfoot and the paranormal bits can safely disregarded because there's nothing within the laws of physics which suggest that psychic abilities, or anything of that nature, are even remotely possible.

Disagree.

Certain aspects of quantum theory suggest that some of these things are remotely possible.

Let's say we have a person who reports seeing a Bigfoot in, for example, Yosemite State Park. A big Bigfoot from 10-10 1/2 foot tall was near his camp on a moonless night spotted by the light of their camp fire. Nothing unusuale about that, is there? But wait, there's more! The Bigfoot was also levitating four feet off of the ground, glowing radioactive green, juggling man-sized logs telepathically, and singing random Looney Toons show tunes.

This is a patently absurd and straw-filled example. Please point me to any such reports, I'd love to hear them. Why is it that so many knee-jerk "paranormal" detractors always proffer such ridiculous scenarios?

If I'm there and I hear this claim the first thing I would ask is just how much they had to drink that night. And if the paranormal bits are a result of an alcohol induced hallucination than how much of the rest is trustworthy?

Agreed.

I always question witnesses about alcohol and drug use (including prescription drugs), regardless of whether or not their report contains any "paranormal" elements.

Just because they're being honest about the events doesn't mean that there aren't any rational explanations for what they witnessed.

Agreed.

You make my point for me.

​I'm saying that we should consider differentiating between:

A: The assumption that all such reported anomalies have a "paranormal" cause

and

B: The reported anomalies themselves (and any possible "normal" explainations for them).

Sort of like what someone told me once about babies and bathwater.

For example I occasionally like to hike in a nearby swamp. It's not very big, but it has very low human traffic. This makes it an acceptable place to find wildlife tracks (before you ask, no I have never seen Bigfoot tracks there nor do I expect I would ever find tracks there unless someone planted them there) such as the plentiful amount of deer that live here.

OK, I'm with you so far...

Occasionally I find track ways that terminate with no explanation. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh! It must be a paranormal deer from Alpha Centuri being picked up by their mother ship!!!

The jump from deer "track ways that terminate with no explanation" to "It must be a paranormal deer from Alpha Centuri being picked up by their mother ship" is silly to the extreme. Another straw man argument.

Or the tracks terminated because the deer started moving across more dry terrain.

This is certainly the most rational explaination, and the one I would default to, provided that the evidence shows that the track maker did in fact start moving across more dry terrain where the trackway ended.

This was not the case in one instance that I am personally aware of. Instead, the purported BF tracks ended in soft, still wet mud. Not once during this investigation was I tempted to blame visitors from Alpha Centauri for the anomaly.

Which do you honestly think is the more reasonable explanation?

I honestly think that the most reasonable explaination is the one that is best supported by the details of the particular case in question.

The laws of physics that you were probably not paying attention to in high school, although I had that stuff figured out back in elementary school. Physics was my favorite subject.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Bonehead74

[Guest]

Disagree.

Certain aspects of quantum theory suggest that some of these things are remotely possible.

I'll concede, for the sake of the argument, that is true. Even if so, so what? What in biology would allow a carbon based lifeform, such as Bigfoot, be able utilize it?

Oh yeah, there's always that teeny little flaw.

This is a patently absurd and straw-filled example. Please point me to any such reports, I'd love to hear them. Why is it that so many knee-jerk "paranormal" detractors always proffer such ridiculous scenarios?

I would like to see those reports as well. Regardless of whether such reports actually exist, I merely put forward that insane scenario to see what your reaction was.

I always question witnesses about alcohol and drug use (including prescription drugs), regardless of whether or not their report contains any supernatural elements.

That is most reasonable.

The jump from deer "track ways that terminate with no explanation" to "It must be a paranormal deer from Alpha Centuri being picked up by their mother ship" is silly to the extreme.

Agreed, but I think any supernatural claim for why tracks might end in the middle of nowhere are patently absurd.

This was not the case in one instance that I am personally aware of. Instead, the purported BF tracks ended in soft, still wet mud. Not once during this investigation was I tempted to blame visitors from Alpha Centauri for the anomaly.

I could think of a few reasons why that might happen myself. Maybe the Bigfoot was traversing through a wet part of the terrain to a dry part of the terrain and latter precipitation caused previously dry terrain to become wet. Maybe the tracks are a prank on to the finder. And on and on.

[ShadowBorn]

Here is my line of thought on exploring these creature's,you have to go at them with a total open mind. Let it lead you to what ever avenue it may take you. If they lead to a point where you no longer can explore then you have reached that point of full exposure. It is at that point where a body is no longer needed,you have learned all that there is to learn and your sense of this world is no longer the same as you once have known it to be. Now is that para normal NO!

Just means that what you have once knew about this world has now changed and is no longer the same as it once was.

[Sasfooty]

although I had that stuff figured out back in elementary school.

See...that could be your problem. Physics may have advanced some since you were in elementary school.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Sasfooty

[1980squatch]

So are the otherworldly claims necessary? No. In fact I would argue not only are they unnecessary but harmful for the Bigfoot community. Why? Because of Orccam's Razor, that's why.

Plussed, getting tired of all the paranormal talk of late.

[Guest LarryP]

Wait, let me guess. "Quantum physics", right?

Exactly which "laws of physics" are you referring to?

The laws of physics that you were probably not paying attention to in high school, although I had that stuff figured out back in elementary school. Physics was my favorite subject.

Not only did I pay attention in high school I had straight A's in Theoretical Physics in high school and college.

The reason I asked which "laws of physics" you were referring to is because "physics" is a very broad term that can encompass everything from Classical Physics to Modern Physics and everything in-between.

[Guest]

Not only did I pay attention in high school I had straight A's in Theoretical Physics in high school and college.

Lovely. Care to name what would allow the paranormal to exist or living beings to be able to use supernatural abilities?

Also, link it or it didn't happen.

The reason I asked which "laws of physics" you were referring to is because "physics" is a very broad term that can encompass everything from Classical Physics to Modern Physics and everything in-between.

I have learned a lot since elementary school, obviously. I still love physics and while I may not be a physicist I have a better understanding of it than your average layman. I even understand enough about quantum physics to know that it's a current buzzword amongst people who promote supernatural claims, and still doesn't permit the existence of the supernatural.