The Existance Of Bigfoot: Is The Magical/paranormal/spiritual/supernatural Really Necessary?

[Guest]

I think BFF has been good for me, in spite of not being able to present a coherent document, or final study/conclusion to my own efforts. The conversations here have allowed, or invited me, to think a little more broadly. I did not expect to find BFs... really at all. The first four years were a whirlwind of adventure and discovery. A few things early that fell in the strangeness category were fairly easy to compartmentalize, as I began to wade thru my experience .and eventually other's...on the web and here.

The last trip, of five weeks, last September to that site, were full of these odd phenomena again but in significantly greater frequency and intensity. I don't know what to think. And while I am waiting, or looking, for answers I am happily, really, looking into the UFO phenomena..... I don't expect to go as far as I did with BF adventures, personally, but by analogy to the deep taboo and misinformation about BFs.. it might also be with UFOs?

Anyway, this is the last one! A compilation of stuff from this past year.. I think not all are "ET'.. especially the solar stuff, and Mars...but the rest.... All BF witness and bad videos are not hoaxed...I don't know which of these are what....but I am not going to ignore this...maybe it is somehow connected? Or not...but awareness shouldn't hurt...the internet and technology to share is so tremendous now...perhaps this has been going on at this rate...for as long as we have been around and we just haven't been able to share it with each other?

But, if this stuff is real..any of it..the idea of this kind of control over craft....push our ability to understand physics...don't they? (And didn't rocket technology just 100 years ago? Or nuclear power?) So why must anything still unexplained be impossible, say worm holes, if any of these videos are of real craft? It is mind boggling really.... Do I accept all I hear or read or see about BFs or UFOs? No...nor about religions! Or, even my own perceptions......I think I'm not going to worry too much about the whys/hows... what it all means, but just focus on the...what is similar here? I have witnessed, now, four of these phenomena. In addition to the BF stuff...the world is starting to feel very mysterious!

But, this is more inspiring, or terrifying, I guess than any sci-fi movie I have seen! I am sure the host has as much bad press as good...but I liked him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=ArmMnZsmfDc

Edited April 16, 2013 by apehuman

[norseman]

If aliens were visiting earth in craft that are designed for intergalactic travel.........could we say they have a better handle on physics than we do? Sure.

The part that begins to crumble apart in my mind is why would a intergalactic being park his space craft and live in the wild like an animal?

It's two completely separate phenomenon in my book. One of which science thinks is ridiculous, and the other? The other they take quite seriously........and are actively looking for aliens right now as we speak. Of course just not in the local dumpster behind the Dairy Queen.

[Guest]

Yeah, I hear ya...and I assume so as well...the only thing is, for me...the two have manifested in the same area...and times...at first I thought total coincidence...not so sure though really...and at the least...makes paying more attention reasonable to me.... for similar reasons I now pay more attention to other BF witnesses....nothing like being the unbelieved to rethink what reception I give others.... yes, all those questions are valid...and a sturdy eye to hoaxing and mis identifications, projecting/speculating meaning on hunches or feelings...or prior known experience/bias...yeah...and I am trying to stay in a neutral place,,,and open minded till what? We know, or I do... I expect a long wait!!!

Edited April 16, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest]

The part that begins to crumble apart in my mind is why would a intergalactic being park his space craft and live in the wild like an animal?

For the same reason some humans that live in modern, first world countries choose to live in the wild I would imagine.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Leftfoot

[norseman]

I have seen strange lights in the sky, that seemed to be under some form of control. Of course the SR 71 was top secret for thirty years in an age when the military was still using prop planes. So who knows what trillions of dollar technology problems have been solved over the course of the years since. So who knows?

But when I saw the strange lights in the sky, I didn't look back down at my Mule in the corral and say................hmmmmmmm, is he looking at me funny?

[Guest]

I have seen strange lights in the sky, that seemed to be under some form of control.

The thing about UFO is that someone uses the term and their mind automatically jumps to flying saucers, rocket ships, little green men, and anal probes. They seem to always disregard the fact that our skies are quite busy these days, even at night. So there are plenty of mundane objects that they could be and still be unidentified flying objects.

Of course the SR 71 was top secret for thirty years in an age when the military was still using prop planes. So who knows what trillions of dollar technology problems have been solved over the course of the years since. So who knows?

Trillions of dollars? Is there even that much money in the world?

[norseman]

The part that begins to crumble apart in my mind is why would a intergalactic being park his space craft and live in the wild like an animal?

For the same reason some humans that live in modern, first world countries choose to live in the wild I would imagine.

Without bringing any technology along for the ride? Cody Lundin wears clothes, makes fire, builds shelter and uses a knife........and I think most would consider him pretty primitive.

Trillions of dollars? Is there even that much money in the world?

Oh my......I'm sorry to break it to you.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

Of course that's not the world...........just US debt.

[Guest]

Mules are domesticated animals, fairly well accepted, documented and familiar. Not so BF, so it is not that odd for people to assign strange lights in the forest, or seemingly unexplained behaviors, to a UFO/ BF presence, especially if one accepts a few well known accounts of BF beaming up! So, the extended speculation is out there.....anything is possible really,

BFs could (ought?) be our evolutionary brother, yes. But, they could also be in contact with UFOs, or studied..who knows? Was any prophet, or holy person, ever in touch with anything? Yet, we have entire religions of passionate witnesses to claimed phenomena...it is all kind of weird don't you think?

But, I don't think those that are proponents of a psychic or interdenominational BF have made such a simple leap as you put forth in mockery.

I do think we would all benefit from just sincere discussion, it is so easy to let our own world view, or assuredness, carry forward instead of real comparisons...valid ones...and the cause and effect argument is good....

until one thinks..hey maybe those incredible eye shine reports are BFs...what mechanism...? I think there is an evolutionary equivalent possible myself, on the other hand....we sure are having a hard time demonstrating this beast... Or maybe BFs really are telepathic ..what then...are any of us?

it is a problem in that to receive any serious attention or group acceptance in the community of science (is there any?) for BFs it seems we have to stick to the most concrete...tracks really, maybe one or two videos...DNA?....I see that yes...but then I am not part of the BF community or science...just a person, witness, and now confused!

But, it might not be the true picture and our avoidance of this more peculiar witness (even if just mundane claims of speech) could be holding us back from finding out what we need to know ...or alternatively is the reason they remain remain unproven..or not!

I am awaiting Sykes work like everyone.... and thinking some H.erectus descendant...?

Edited April 16, 2013 by apehuman

[Guest LarryP]

The claim that there's nothing within the laws of physics which suggest that psychic abilities or anything similar is possible is a negative claim, and is the default position until evidence suggests otherwise. Evidence you have to supply if you're making a positive claim like that paranormal abilities are possible.

First of all, it's an incorrect claim. As there is now a very large body of evidence that clearly suggests that Psi does exist. Which is why I brought up Quantum Entaglement upthread.

Secondly, you still have not even identified (despite repeated requests) which field of physics, much less the specific "laws" within that field of physics which prove your claim.

Thirdly, the fact that you either can not or will not answer that question leaves you in no position to ask anyone else for evidence of anything.

[Guest]

First of all, it's an incorrect claim. As there is now a very large body of evidence that clearly suggests that Psi does exist.

Wonderful, that means you ought to be able to present some. Why don't you?

Which is why I brought up Quantum Entaglement upthread.

And as I explained earlier, Quantum Entanglement doesn't support your claim.

Secondly, you still have not even identified (despite repeated requests) which field of physics, much less the specific "laws" within that field of physics which prove your claim.

Thirdly, the fact that you either can not or will not answer that question leaves you in no position to ask anyone else for evidence of anything.

Do you really have that much trouble understanding burden of proof?

[Guest LarryP]

A) Us is us........the ones that mine, log, build dams and bend our environment to our will. So no they are NOT the nocturnal equivalent of us........they are nothing like us.

They are bipedal hominids. So you completely lost me right off the get go.

B ) More damning is the fact that they are as he claims apart of the Homo lineage...........and yet show no characteristics of such lineage.

Proof ?

Because the argument that, "We have no observations or proof that they use technology, but they are technologically superior to us........trust us" is pure FOLLY.

This is pure fantasy.........plain and simple, somebody has watched Avatar too many times.

Never seen Avatar. But there is no substitute for experience.

We made good use of a million years of evolution and education to become something much more sophisticated than we once were. Why wouldn't they?

Because as Thom Powell wrote; we took the "fork in the road toward technology, materialism, resource extraction, and industrialization".

Whereas, BF took the fork in the evolutionary road towards changing "themselves, their needs and their desires, to suit the earth's environment as it was given to them" and as a result "they have developed much more sophisticated and sentient mental capabilities" than Homo Sapiens.

And it is exactly because of their far more superior and sentient mental capabilities that enable them to elude humans so easily.

Especially humans like you who hunt for them in their habitat with the intent of killing them in their habitat.

But the same applies to humans who hunt for them with the intent of photographing them.

First of all, it's an incorrect claim. As there is now a very large body of evidence that clearly suggests that Psi does exist.

Wonderful, that means you ought to be able to present some. Why don't you?

Which is why I brought up Quantum Entaglement upthread.

And as I explained earlier, Quantum Entanglement doesn't support your claim.

Secondly, you still have not even identified (despite repeated requests) which field of physics, much less the specific "laws" within that field of physics which prove your claim.

Thirdly, the fact that you either can not or will not answer that question leaves you in no position to ask anyone else for evidence of anything.

Do you really have that much trouble understanding burden of proof?

Not at all.

But apparently you do.

[Guest]

Not at all.

But apparently you do.

I'm not the one failing to recognize a negative claim or to provide evidence for a positive claim.

You are.

[norseman]

A) Us is us........the ones that mine, log, build dams and bend our environment to our will. So no they are NOT the nocturnal equivalent of us........they are nothing like us.

They are bipedal hominids. So you completely lost me right off the get go.

Walking on two legs a human it does not thus make........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australopithecus_afarensis

Notice the name "Homo" lacking anywhere in the species name.

Proof ?

Your serious? As we cannot PROVE the existence of the animal all we can do is look at supposed evidence of its traits. Does it build a fire? No. Does it flake stone? No. Does it build a teepee? No. Does it create cave art? No.

Never seen Avatar. But there is no substitute for experience.

Well you should go see it because it completely fits your world view.

Because as Thom Powell wrote; we took the "fork in the road toward technology, materialism, resource extraction, and industrialization".

Whereas, BF took the fork in the evolutionary road towards changing "themselves, their needs and their desires, to suit the earth's environment as it was given to them" and as a result "they have developed much more sophisticated and sentient mental capabilities" than Homo Sapiens.

That's not evolution that he is describing............sorry. It's pseudo science. Organisms do not make consensus decisions to change themselves........physically or mentally. Natural selection does that for us.

That's not to say that an individual chooses what ice cream to eat. But if you and I got together and made consensus decision to grow wings and fly, in 300 generations we would be no closer to that goal.

And it is exactly because of their far more superior and sentient mental capabilities that enable them to elude humans so easily.

Turn about is fair play I guess.........proof? What proof do you have that Sasquatch is mentally superior to humans? That they elude us? Do they? How many reports? Photos? Audio? Footprints? How many were felled with a pioneer rifle?

You are going to have to completely rewrite evolutionary biology in order to make this creature smarter than us............good luck with that.

Especially humans like you who hunt for them in their habitat with the intent of killing them in their habitat.

But the same applies to humans who hunt for them with the intent of photographing them.

Well I suppose as smart as they are they could just matrix the bullet I shoot..........bend time and space and make me shoot myself with my own bullet!!!!

Crafty devils!

[MIB]

The part that begins to crumble apart in my mind is why would a intergalactic being park his space craft and live in the wild like an animal?

For the sake of argument, how 'bout 'cause he's an intergalactic nudist on vacation?

Truth is, you don't know, I don't know, but us not having the answer does not preclude its existence. How many ideas have we had about anything so far? N. How many have been proven wrong so far? N-1. So what are the odds that all of our ideas today are the final answers? I think we'd be ahead to assume what we believe today is the best we've got but it is is also probably going to be superseded by a better refinement tomorrow and that even that will fall eventually as our understanding grows.

MIB

[ThePhaige]

For the sake of argument, how 'bout 'cause he's an intergalactic nudist on vacation?

MIB

Now I don't care who you are that's just funny right there