Guest Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I think most agree that part of the problem with BFdom is the competitive nature of the pursuit in terms of credit for firsts, perhaps even discovery..and that most in the field are amateurs... I focus on these two issues (I know there are more) because it has occurred to me that a lesson might be had from the UFO crowd: I think Dr. Steven (or Stephen?) Greer M.D. has been a strong catalyst in UFOlogy and focuses a good deal of effort on disclosure and bringing out testimony of retired officials..or, those with employment that brought them in contact. Now as so many approach their declining years and are ready to talk the testimony is becoming a groundswell... James Fox was an Independent film maker that used a 2008 conference to produce "I Know What I Saw"," one of the first UFO documentaries I had seen. I was impressed primarily b/c of the caliber of the witnesses, their testimony, and the push at this level for disclosure... I think organizing such an effort for BF disclosure, rather than discovery, might be a solution to some of our pains? People are more willing to share these taboos, or even clearance violations (expired? official? ) as they age... It would certainly take out the celebrity portion of BFing in that this is the testimony of many, respected, named ex-employees of Government..police, FW, FS, etc....military.. James Fox somehow financed his documentary, but he had in place already Greer's (or was it Friedman haha they have some celebrities too...but somehow seem more functional than Bigfootery..?) press conference... Where to start for us? A big collaborative effort, but also one so easy IMO to sell in that it is equal opportunity.... for our contribution rounding up possible witnesses, or organizing such a panel....to reviewing and encouraging the right kind of focus for the testimony..... I think we need it and it does seem doable... in time? Some of the work is done but in many sources...how to bring us together...and Disclosure is such a different focus than Discovery... Edited May 23, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DWA Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) Gotta say there is something to this. The only problem with it that I see is the very competitiveness you cite. Seems to me that a very high percentage of the advocates in this field have personal experience with 'what it is,' and are very heavily invested in that. Unlike the apparent case with UFO advocates, that seems to drive much if not most of the competition. They'd likely think it very problematical that many disclosers wouldn't share their bias. Edited May 23, 2013 by DWA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) It seems there is one individual, and i just can't recall name that is very focused on Government knowledge, framed as cover up....do you recall the name? Terrible I can't even recall many exact posts but they all had the same focus...in that he targeted information from ex-government witnesses... so I do think there are several sources already out there that might coalesce.. On the camps/bias..yeah, I hear ya! But, by simply focusing on the caliber of ex-government official witnesses (wonder how many there are...haha) or current...some police I recall speak out....no camp has to weigh in.....I mean how long can we keep telling witnesses what they saw...? The work sounds frightful and yet not in some ways.... pretty simple once you make contact.... and I guess that is something I can research...in a marginally satisfying way..how many reports existing are from government employees on the job? Wonder when the last time ex-Asst.Sec of interior Robert Lyle Laverty was interviewed on this topic...wasn't discussed in confirmation hearings and yet..he's the fresh out on the ground at Bluff Creek next day...with photos of tracks...and well...haha, he might not be ready to be honest..! Did I say that out loud? oops! Edited May 23, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Owl Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think those who were in the know on government cover-ups, fully realize how kicking up the sand even years later can still have serious back lashes. I would guess that there are select groups within state and federal government, who fully know the Bigfoot exist and may have collected dead and possibly live specimens. What troubles me deeply is the motives for keeping this information from the general public? What benefit or value in doing this totally escapes me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JiggyPotamus Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I am convinced that there are certain organizations or departments within the US government that know sasquatch exist. They likely did not attempt to go out and look for the animal, rather they got involved after a chance happening. A scenario that is probably the most common would be a local police department responding to some encounter or accident scene in which a bigfoot was killed or wounded, and as they contact wildlife officials, the park service or whatever, word quickly gets to the higher-ups in a wildlife based government department. This is likely how they found out about these animals, and I am quite certain that once they knew they existed, they began a clandestine study of them. Nothing huge, just a small team working on this over the years. I would bet there is quite a bit of data held by certain government departments, but it is likely classified, although for what reason I do not know. It must be classified, as I am sure someone would have used the FOIA to attempt to gain documents the government has. And since they very likely have them, and we cannot get them, they must be classified. There are very good reasons for the government not coming out and telling the people about these animals, and there are good reasons that they would not want the people to know. As I think about it, there are so many reports of sasquatch on military installations that the DoD likely may have investigated these animals as well, and must have concluded they are legitimate. This is because security cameras on a military installation would surely have captured evidence of these animal, on multiple occasions, seeing as how many installations are heavily secured areas. And you better believe that the government would want to know if someone was out there in a gorilla suit, traipsing around restricted areas. They would have covered this and all other bases. It would not surprise me if the military/government has killed these animals in the past, as security personnel got scared and trigger happy. Heck, it would not surprise me if there were sasquatch in captivity somewhere. I don't know where they would take an animal like this, but I am sure it would be a highly secretive project, under heavy guard. So at the end of the day it would probably not be worth it to press the government for disclosure, or to use the FOIA, since they are not apt to release any classified documents. But it should be tried. The question is, what agency or department do you send the requests to? I would try them all if I were going to do it, if it has not already been done. Even if a document is redacted heavily, it still could have good information in it. They likely have their own sighting report database as well, of some sort. The UFO disclosure project has not really done anything to prove aliens are visiting earth. People have come forward, but at the end of the day, until aliens land and announce themselves, or the government announces they are real and visiting earth, they will remain unproven. Personally I do not think aliens are visiting earth. I have always preached about the importance of sighting reports when it comes to bigfoot, so it seems hypocritical to denounce the tens of thousands of UFO reports that have been collected over the years. But I don't think so. First of all, ever since WWII ended, and the Cold War began, the government has loved the fact that people thought UFO's were alien spacecraft. What the government did not want was people going around and saying "I saw a classified aircraft project, or spy plane." They liked the UFO story a whole lot better. Plus, there are so many things that can cause lights in the sky at night that it is easy to be confused about what you are seeing, since there is no way you can know what it is. Even everyday airplanes are still mistaken for UFO's or alien spacecraft in this day and age. And we do not even fully understand how tectonic activity, fault lines, earthquakes, etc. can cause lights in the sky, but they can. We don't fully understand the capabilities of electrical energy appearing in the sky, such as lightning, and especially ball lightning. Even satellites and stars are labelled as UFO's, despite the fact they are not. What is a UFO for one person may not be a UFO for another person. But after you analyze everything, it is logical to conclude that somewhere under 5% of reported sightings are truly unexplainable. That is the only reason I entertain the idea of aliens visiting earth, although it would take disclosure to convince me. So just like the bigfoot, the truth is really in the sightings. But, I have always believed that not nearly as many bigfoot witnesses are wrong about what they saw as compared to UFO witnesses. As I already mentioned, it is much easier to misidentify some light in the sky than to misidentify a 7 foot tall hairy dude. There is just more there to witness with sasquatch. Unfortunately, those people who do not believe in anything of this nature will probably assume that someone who believes in bigfoot also believes in aliens visiting earth, not realizing that both subjects share the common trait of having been sighted thousands of times. Although I think that pushing the government for disclosure would most likely be pointless, it is definitely a step that needs to be taken. Calling for witnesses from within the government is essential as well, even if this plan does not ultimately prove sasquatch exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePhaige Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I think those who were in the know on government cover-ups, fully realize how kicking up the sand even years later can still have serious back lashes. I would guess that there are select groups within state and federal government, who fully know the Bigfoot exist and may have collected dead and possibly live specimens. What troubles me deeply is the motives for keeping this information from the general public? What benefit or value in doing this totally escapes me.... I totally agree that not only is it fully known that BF exist , but I feel it goes much deeper that that. When it is understood what, who and where they fit into the real scheme of things... AND WHEN that is then compared to the projected historical information that is presented to the masses and locked in as scientific fact... AND THEN when it is shown that one does not align with the other, we then can see more clearly the motives for the curtain of deception, misinformation, why science shows no interest, and the list goes on. The elephant in the room to my thinking is that BOTH phenomenons while not the same do in fact reveal the same truths that have been obfuscated for many summers. UFOs and SSq may not be siblings but they are in my experience not so distant cousins. Good topic AH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Jiggy- plussed you on that. After the Sierra shooting and after the DFG went to Justins' home I called the regional DFG office in Rancho Cordova and asked if they had heard about the report of two BF's being shot in Plumas Co. The regional wildlife manager had a very quick and terse "no". I asked the regional wildlife manager how to enact a regulation prohibiting the shooting of BF and she said to take it up with your assemblyman. Etc. , Etc., Etc, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Sorry, I have bailed here these days, I am kind of flattened, honestly, by Bobbie's passing....and just feeling her forty years of effort.... I think I need a break for a bit...but this issue....of witnesses within Government....remains on my mind....and your comments above reaffirms that... Maybe I can turn grief into motivation, but today it just all feels really, really sad. How sad so many citizens cannot turn to their elected government with these witnesses... Edited May 25, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight Owl Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I will probably never understand all the dynamics working within the Bigfoot phenomenon, but do hope a more unified effort is extended regarding all the established research groups and that many unproven opinions and views are used as a tool of their study rather than a club trying to bash others into line with their theory. With that said, on several occasions while out deep in the woods, I have noticed lights silently hovering over the tree line in the direction I was recording eyeshine. It was just another one of those unexpected twists I never expected or saw coming. I'm not trying to suggest anything here folks, just relating my observations at that time. I have at least two night vision video clips of the eye shine and the lights in the sky. They looked to be in a delta or diamond shape and changed from red, to green, to blue and to white alternately. Just a bit brighter and larger than the stars and could easily go unnoticed ro assume they were just a passing plane. I'm not trying to widen the box here, but wanted to share this interesting observation and wonder if others have seen this too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) Maybe we can get some answer's on 5/31/13 on H2. There will be a show called "America's Book Of Secret's" that has an episode about Bigfoot. Seems the premise is that if Bigfoot was a recognized species it would reek havoc on the logging industry. It looks to me like it all comes down to money, imagine that... Maybe we should be trying to get disclosure from Weyerhaeuser or Georgia-Pacific. In the end, companies are not held to the same FOIA as our elected officials. I believe it was Obama who joked after he was elected, that he wanted to know if there are UFO's and such... Edited May 25, 2013 by Hellbilly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southernyahoo Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Bigfoot and UFO's carry a different expectation evidence wise from their respective proponents. There is a prevailing perception that Bigfoot should be exponentially easier to prove than the existence of extraterrestrial alien aircraft in our skies. The UFO crowd can say their technology must be light years ahead of us and thus is a easy excuse to not have proof. Bigfoot is supposed to be this terrestrial biological entity that can't really escape it's earthly confines and so with the right effort can be proven. This draws many cynicly inclined critics, half thinking BF can't be there because it would be proven already, and the other half (a sort of narcicist) that thinks previous attempts to prove it were poorly attempted by crackpot goons. While admittedly, some are not trained how to document their findings, it's not that disclosure doesn't happen but the venue in which it happens could be better along with organised training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 I can see effort being put into UFO cover ups because if they existed they might very well prove to be a threat. I can't see the same being true for what might be a dying species, or if not dying, then obviously not a threat to us. It's too much effort to get into just to have something acknowledged that might be more of an inconvenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) Nice insights really. And I haven't a good solution ofr how to organize more broadly the models in my mind kind of follow professional societies with dues and adhered to gereral/specific rules ranging from ethics to skill/education.....and they compete too..... but more transparently and with foundational tools to self review, etc.. How do we do that, and who would join and why? Meldrum's journal is really an attempt IMO, to focus a level of quality and professionalism.... most of us can't attain and yet we produce collectively key information, far in advance of what scientific insitutions/persons can demonstrate. Tracks are it really, for academic review of a majority of amateur evidence...and Meldrum has no peer-review paper on the topic...just the conference, and now this Journal (has he published under it...opps I can't recall.. last I saw only two papers) Physical evidence in hair without DNA as the added analysis we are waiting on...perhaps? Or not...maybe just mtDNA and questions, or all samples other species? Short of an overarching oversight group not by invitation, but by merit....(hahahh!) or a dynamic and funded leader with such a focus it seems insurmountable really.... although...certain people do focus on this issue and jumping on those bandwagons might help..but how? who cares what this poster thinks...? Basically almost no evidence, of any kind, reaches any level of validation or acceptance...wow...in fifty years! So, I don't think we as ever hopeful new researchers, or harden old ones will solve it in the manner we proceed.... And disclosure....I think Southernyahoo sums up well...as not rising to the level of "national security" that the UFO phenomenon attracts..(or even Religion), unless one adopts the view of an interdimensional BF ...But, it does seem that connection - potentially to UFOs if true (even religion) could raise those real concerns folks have with UFOs invading! And, so readily dismissed vehemently....there are parallels in just the research/society issues I do find compelling....and government silence...although I also agree, just a threatened extinction of an undiscovered ape might suffice...dang! The camps, or schools of thought, are decisive truly...it is "safest" (or sane, haha) to claim thus, in order of increasing risk... : 1. no BFs.at all 2. fully biological ape, or new order primate 3. fully genus homo.. 4. or any combination but with paranormal ability (possibly based in biology but misunderstood) i.e telepathy or close ability 5. any combination above but with added physical/psychic abilities - are there any or does it go to another dimension type issue, or? 6. a spiritual being entity and/or ET Amazing some really respected (well it seems, their evidence many rely on) bigfooters end up in the "far out" camps? Just as amazing that those who are in camp "one" or "two" cannot demonstrate adequately their existence..or the government is soo soo silent? man guys... I did see 2 daytime UFo's...still can't believe it. (and really ignored until this past fall..and also finally absorbing the popular UFO history etc.. I never looked before!) .. I have had incredible eye shine witness, and also the small flashes that seem to imitate their predicted behavior/location on other data....and of course the tracks, and so on....but also then the weird dream with "blue eyes"...and then the last long trip...it got weirder yet.... something is up with Squatch! I missed a category... where do we put this: any combination above but unsorted witness...mis-applying different sources/events to the classic Sasquatch of what? Bluff Creek? NA tradition? Nordic? yikes... I think i might be giving up! That would then create multiple unknown entities/phenomenon occurring in time and space....out there in the night and remote places..... and yes, I think the immediate post above sums up official interest...and so then why continue mine? arrggg...it is an infection! Edited May 28, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 Nice points S. yahoo and apehuman. Personally, I hope there is no correlation between BF and UFO's as that would be too much for a lot of us to comprehend... I believe BF to be a biological entity of some sort, whether genus Homo or ape seems most likely. HB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 28, 2013 Share Posted May 28, 2013 (edited) I hear ya! I am Ok up thru camp "four" myself ..... in that incredible eyeshine, telepathy, or infrasound...can all be biological and of the primate line..and could explain all my witness..sans coincidental UFOs... The only camp able to attract broad support/money has been so far "two." Camp "three", has some serious investigators/books....but so far no academic to advance...and no long run of monster shows....!!!! After that...things get "incredible" fast. (as if a BF ape under our noses isn't?) and fall off the sanity map... ......and yet, these lingering long term issues/witnesses...so, if I stand back and look at history, recent issues, future issues, a lot is riding on Sykes and 35 samples of hair from around the globe...! Edited May 28, 2013 by apehuman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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