N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Guest]

Why should I think apes are doing this?

 

1) It looks just like what apes do elsewhere;

2) Humans got beyond this long ago;

3) Humans collecting food collect a lot, and take it home;

4) People I consider reliable are telling me this is a long way from where I should expect folks to do this, and that they have seen no one else there.  Both are things my experience in that area tells me are quite reasonable;

5) People I consider reliable are seeing apes here.

 

Now why should I think humans are doing this?

 

Disregard all that, and accept something I consider a stretch on every count.

 

The problem with this it's not impossible to think a human could have done it. But, as you point out, that's a far stretch to make considering what was found and where it was found. For those of us in the NAWAC who have seen and experienced direct evidence of these animals, it's a small step to say this and other little nut piles we've found in the area are most likely ape related. Admittedly, it's a larger step to ask someone who has not been there and only has our word to take on the subject to make the same assumption. 

 

At the end of the day, this is *exactly* why we don't publicized the location of X. We need our research area to be as unmolested by humans as possible. 

[Guest DWA]

Well, all I'm talking about is whether my reaction - never having seen a wood ape and being able to understand at least what I call people's "primary incredulity" on this topic - should be (1) say it's human and be done with it or (2) hold out another possibility based on what I know and the circumstances.

 

There's no way human agency is so likely that (2) goes down the tubes.  That's what I mean.

[Drew]

Personally, were I a human I'm not using a rock that big to break nuts.  I'm using something smaller that I can easily carry.

 

Like, you know, a, well, nutcracker.

 

How far is this from the cabins?  Hunters use the cabins in the fall.  Perhaps they have been returning customers who have rented the cabins, and have set up a hammer/anvil right there on location.  They can just leave the tools there.  No reason to take them with.

[Guest DWA]

Maybe.

 

But given what I know about known apes; what people I have talked to and whose opinion I trust on this who are there have told me about this; and what I know about people generally, I'm not ready to say boom, a person did this, and done.  That's my point.

[Guest]

Maybe.

Maybe not. Those assumptions about the cabins and who uses them when is incorrect.

[Cotter]

Hi Folks, a bit of a nut (hickory) lesson here.

 

Hickory nuts will go rancid (eventually) once they are removed from the shell.

 

Certain hickory nuts should not be eaten.  Hence (along with most nuts), a float test is done.  Nuts that float, should not be eaten.

SO, if a gatherer decided to go out and eat raw (they are eaten raw, but most will agree toasted is the way to go) hickory nuts, using only the rudimentary tools available, they would be doing so in a very primitive manner.

 

The method of nut eating that is demonstrated is not normally how humans choose to do it.

[Guest Squatchologist]

And if was humans cracking open those nuts, and are renters of cabin. Why not leave a nut cracker at the cabin? Instead you leave a nice sized rock for them to use? Just so they feel like they're living in primitive (can't think of better word) times? Highly unlikely

[Cotter]

Well, traditional nut crackers (like you see at Holiday Celebrations) don't have enough oomph to get through the nut shells (at least w/black walnuts), a set of channel locks works good, so does the good old fashioned hammer smash.

 

BUT, to your point, there would be MUCH better tools a human would use (unless it was just simply a nut cracking of opportunity). 

[Guest]

I can tell you the distance from the cabins to the boulder and rock pictured is not insubstantial. We have found what appears to be a second rock/boulder nut cracking "station" closer in, but the one I found and documented was a lot further away. The idea that a person would hike all the way out there just to squat in the greenbriar and ticks to bash nuts that didn't even taste good (or, to Cotter's point, are even edible) is, IMO, preposterous.

[Guest]

New T-shirt opportunity ..."Bust a nut with Sasquatch in Oklahoma" brought to you by the Oklahoma State Tourism Dept. location unspecific.   J/K very cool find guys and gals

[Guest]

Which is not to say, of course, that it's outside the scope of all possibility that another human didn't set that up to find. But, if they did, they've been setting up similar situations for more than seven years but have left the little bashing rock off the larger one. This is far from the first of these we've found, but it is the first one where both rocks were present.

 

I remind everyone about the calls from the more skeptical posters in previous threads for us to find evidence of these animals feeding. I believe we have.  Is it proof? No. But it is more evidence that continues to suggest very ape-like behavior. 

[Guest]

Absolutely Bipto, and when combined with the nut info from Cotter, it's even more so.

 

I've actually been considering nuts and the role they could fill in some of my research areas - eg: Bunya nuts are a high-yielding, high nutrition foodstuff that were an important crop for local aboriginal tribes (a mature nut can weigh up to 5 kilos - be careful where you park the car when they're in season...).

 

To date I've only tried small Bunya nuts as a food temptation in the hair snare I've designed, but in light of your findings I'm giving consideration to expanding out and trying macadamia nuts too. Maybe a bucketful and a couple of handy sized rocks and see what happens.

[Guest]

In light of this newest find of nuts cracking under pressure, I suggest you consider renaming your mission...Operation Melba.

 

If you are still trying to collect a specimen ten years from now, I nominate the name Operation Permanent Indeterminance.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Irish73

[Drew]

I can tell you the distance from the cabins to the boulder and rock pictured is not insubstantial. We have found what appears to be a second rock/boulder nut cracking "station" closer in, but the one I found and documented was a lot further away. The idea that a person would hike all the way out there just to squat in the greenbriar and ticks to bash nuts that didn't even taste good (or, to Cotter's point, are even edible) is, IMO, preposterous.

 

Fair enough.  Two more questions on this Nutty topic:

 

A. How far is this anvil/hammer location from the nearest public trail, or forest service road?

B. Did you check the area for DNA?  The hammer rock would clearly be a prime collector of skin samples from who ever was wielding it.

[Guest]

Miles. I don't know exactly, but I'd say less than ten. Keep in mind, one mile of Ouachita jungle is worth five miles of PNW forest if you're ******* it cross-country. This is obviously a place people can get to (because I did) but I only got there after pushing though much brush and crossing water several times. It isn't the kind of place someone would find themselves after a casual hike. 

 

 

We have not tested anything for DNA after the hair we sent to Sykes last year for various reasons. In this specific case, it didn't appear to be fresh so, presumably, any ape DNA would be gone.

Edited June 27, 2013 by bipto