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N A W A C - Field Study Discussion


slabdog
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BFF Donor

Iam just picking minds and asking honest questions...... Just following through on what I've asked in the past.

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I think you and I understand each other quite well Norse. Probably why we have little to no history of back and forth. Unless of course you want to mention Mr.Standing again? :) LOL, just busting your chops bud.

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Bipto,

Which team members have not had a sighting in Area X?

Could you update us on how many times Mr. Colyer has seen wood apes in and outside of Area X?

Given that you know you are dealing with giant, swift and powerful, potentially dangerous apes (granted for argument), how is it that you folks seem care-free on occasion, even when you detect movement just outside the camp area, and so forth?

You say these Oklahoma Apes exhibit typical ape behavior. Since apes are highly territorial, why haven't they taken on you folks in openly aggressive, threatening, and perhaps fatal encounters?

Could you talk about why you are finding firewood at wood ape wood-knocking stations?

And, the nuts and rocks locations, are you finding prodigious amounts of nut remains that would satisfy the food requirements for a really humongous ape?

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Remove the pounding rock and replace it with a huge, paperweight-density replica, coated in a layer of material that takes prints well.

 

There's thousands of those kinds of places for them to use around there. 

 

Well, I might think from the pounder being left right there atop the pounded that that station is being used repeatedly.  Indeed for chimps exhibiting this behavior, they seem to take pains to re-use both items; the base rock is picked out as much as the pounder is.

 

I can understand from previous results a back-off to a certain extent from game cams.  But boy I'd want to train one there.

 

 

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Just because I leave Ketchup packets on a picnic table, it doesn't necessarily mean that I'm returning to that spot for my next burger. Assuming a WoodApe did leave it there, maybe he just didn't pick the rock up again after finishing the last of the nuts he was eating. Assuming it is used regularly, there would probably be a tremendous quantity of nut shells scattered about the area of the rock.

 

As far as camera locations I'd focus on areas such as sheltered areas near moving water sources (where would you drink if you were a skittish ape?), convenient water crossings, and pinches in game trails, not somewhere an extremely cautious or elusive animal would sit and leisurely take in its' surroundings.

 

I am an avid surf fisherman. Perhaps the most important skill I've developed towards successful surf fishing is to learn read the surf and look for pinches and ambush points between sand bars. This is where large predators will hunt. I'm inclined to think the same thing about land animals. Look for potential ambush locations on game trails such as places where prey animals escape options are narrowed or hampered by natural features of the terrain. If a deer, hog, etc., can be slowed or momentarily confused as to its' immediate options, this is where it is the most vulnerable. Hungry animals will repeat successful tactics, and perhaps being focused on prey would make them less likely to detect and avoid something out of place like a camera. Just my two cents.....

Edited by Irish73
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Which team members have not had a sighting in Area X?

 

You want a list or something? We're in the neighborhood of about a dozen members who have had sightings. I can't say for certain without cross-referencing against team rosters and field notes. Most members have not had clear sightings. Many have.

 

 

Could you update us on how many times Mr. Colyer has seen wood apes in and outside of Area X?

 

He's had one sighting outside of X and maybe three or four within. Two clear sightings and a few possible/probably sightings. 

 

 

Given that you know you are dealing with giant, swift and powerful, potentially dangerous apes (granted for argument), how is it that you folks seem care-free on occasion, even when you detect movement just outside the camp area, and so forth?

 

Our experience is they are very seldom aggressive in a dangerous way. And we're there to observe their behavior. I'm not sure I'd describe it as "care-free" but we try to always maintain our cool.

 

 

You say these Oklahoma Apes exhibit typical ape behavior. Since apes are highly territorial, why haven't they taken on you folks in openly aggressive, threatening, and perhaps fatal encounters?

 

There have been a few instances of explicitly threatening behavior. You could argue that the rock throwing is a form of aggressive territorial behavior (though I don't think it always is). Yes, apes are territorial in general (and the fact they've been there so long and so reliably lends credence to the supposition that wood apes are, too), but not every individual in the troop is going to defend that territory in the same way. They do exhibit typical ape behavior, including how individual animals seem to react differently our presence in their area. 

 

 

Could you talk about why you are finding firewood at wood ape wood-knocking stations?

 

We've stated we believe they use the wood to signal each other. 

 

 

And, the nuts and rocks locations, are you finding prodigious amounts of nut remains that would satisfy the food requirements for a really humongous ape?

 

They aren't all born eight feet tall.

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^I'd like to expand a bit (theoretically) on your last comment.

 

Perhaps these nut cracking stations are used by younger/smaller WA's.  Especially since the caloric requirement for those types wouldn't be nearly as high as an adult.  The adults MAY focus on larger/more easily obtained caloric food sources.

 

I agree with what some of the posters have suggested, you would think it would take bushels of nuts for a large animal to get a meal out of nuts.

 

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BFF Donor

Very seldom does a animal get to sit down like a human at a smorgasbord and gorge themselves.

Especially with non big game kills and fruits and nuts, it's a little here a little there so forth and so on.

Grizzlies in certain Times of the year will turn over rocks looking for moths to eat. I bet that is a very long process for him to feel full.

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Perhaps these nut cracking stations are used by younger/smaller WA's.  Especially since the caloric requirement for those types wouldn't be nearly as high as an adult.  The adults MAY focus on larger/more easily obtained caloric food sources.

 

We speculated about the young using the rocks to crush nuts, as well, assuming the adults may be string enough not to have to use them or prefer different sources of protein. 

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Bipto , do you guys employ hair snags ?  and another question if I may , do you guys find large compacted trails with the limbs broken off high and wide ?

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BFF Patron

With prodigious strength, I see the lever as unnecessary, a large adult BF should be able to crush a hickory nut in between their fingers or certainly palms IMHO.  

 

Young ones maybe not so much.

 

That said, I did find a totally obliterated hickory nut reduced to pulverization early on in my research and not scattered----almost seemed placed as a signal.  

 

At the time, though ready rocks were around--- there was no indication they had been moved or used to crush.

 

The nut was  in a "central" location of foot travel (for me) in the deciduous, rich cove forest floor, extremely close to small teepees and intricate ground stick weaves found over time and I did do a WTH step back in sighting straight down on top of this find.  

 

Did I say It was in an active hot zone?  LOL.  This was certainly a first for me (and last for that matter).  

 

Hard to tell if this particular nut had any rot to it or not ......  the way the nut was crushed on the damp forest floor it was like a D-9 dozer track hit it on dry track........  but nothing like that could get to that zone. 

 

Yes, I have a picture (on a different computer).  

Edited by bipedalist
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For what it's worth, at least one encounter report (NAWAC) is of a wood ape observed opening a nut with one hand.

 

Bipto might be easier able to find it than I.

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Guest zenmonkey

A good place to start in any discussion of the NAWAC's ongoing field research with Operation Relentless is episode 51 of The Bigfoot Show.

 

Here's a few images of the presumed hickory nut crushing rock and boulder we found earlier in the year.

 

Here's every episode of the BFS in which X and the NAWAC's activities there were discussed (the second half of 38 and all of 39 are the main X episodes from 2012).

 

Here's where you can listen to the presentation I gave at the Texas Bigfoot conference regarding 2011's Operation Endurance.

 

Here's where you can watch the presentation I gave at the Texas Bigfoot conference regarding 2012's Operation Persistence.

 

Here's the NAWAC's published report on Endurance and the Echo Incident.

 

And about a possible wood ape hair we collected and which was subsequently sent to Brian Sykes for analysis.

 

Finally, here are the archived BFF discussions about Operations Endurance and Persistence and the Echo Incident.

Good lord bipto. Looks like that's just about all a man needs lol

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Guest zenmonkey

Awesome stuff as usual bipto. I was wondering I've listened to all the x BFS several times. Are their any pictures of the cabins. I was just curious as to what they looked like after what I imagine in my head..and also could I get a mention if I do a nice glamor and dress up like Melba?? Come on everyone's gotta love that!!! Lol

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