N A W A C - Field Study Discussion

[Lake County Bigfooot]

I would differentiate from objects being tossed, kind of lobbed, vs. a fast ball.

Seemed to me when I played a little game of toss with them they liked the interaction,

in fact that was my main m.o. to get them to react to me.  Tossing them apples

showed I was not being aggressive, and they tossed back sticks and other objects

maybe some of the apples, though it was hard to see what some of the objects were

in the dark, I ruled out natural phenomenon by having my wife observe the discourse

several times, and she said the objects flew in horizontal, some struck our shed.

My overall impression was that the juvenile was enjoying this game, not the adult.

But never did it seem aggressive, so the rocks coming in softly would seem a game,

like interact with me, and fast balls might be go away, size of rock might be another

indicator, bigger being more aggressive to state the obvious.

[Guest]

Agree. 

[Guest]

Dominance leads to territorial battles, mating battles, and food battles which will eventually lead to the dominant animal dying.

 

You are wrong.

 

You don't understand what Dominance is. Dominance is not aggression. It is a social mechanism meant to avoid aggression. Dominance is not a state it is a relationship.

 

Read up: http://www.amazon.com/The-Evolution-Canine-Social-Behavior/dp/0966048415/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386895484&sr=8-1&keywords=canine+evolution

[ShadowBorn]

These creatures are the dominant of the forest and all other creatures will give them respect. Mostly it is due to survival and I happen to believe that these creatures have a much bigger range of territory.

[Drew]

You are wrong.

 

You don't understand what Dominance is. Dominance is not aggression. It is a social mechanism meant to avoid aggression. Dominance is not a state it is a relationship.

 

Read up: http://www.amazon.com/The-Evolution-Canine-Social-Behavior/dp/0966048415/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1386895484&sr=8-1&keywords=canine+evolution

 

Right, because chucking rocks at stuff, and howling at intruders is indicative of a submissive status.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Drew

[Guest DWA]

Right, because chucking rocks at stuff, and howling at intruders is indicative of a submissive status.

 

No, it's an upfront bluff designed to forestall conflict, as many sasquatch encounter reports suggest.

 

Edited December 16, 2013 by DWA

[Drew]

No, it's an upfront bluff designed to forestall conflict, as many sasquatch encounter reports suggest.

Doesn't compute.

If you want to forestall conflict, you don't chuck rocks at people, and howl really loud near them.

This is a huge problem with the bigfoot reports.

You can't be elusive, AND huck rocks at people.

You can't be elusive, AND howl menacingly near people.

If you are elusive, you don't instigate conflict, or give away your position.

Of course Bigfoot can get away with it, and I am pretty sure I know why.

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Assuming this stuff is really happening, I would say it's more of an indirect confrontation than anything. Obviously they aren't happy that the NAWAC team is there.

Edited December 16, 2013 by OntarioSquatch

[WSA]

My best judgment from reading all the encounter evidence is "elusive" should not be confused with "invisible" or "indifferent." I think the agreed on description by those on the ground in Area X is "furtive."   

 

Obviously too, if the BFs have encountered the NAWAC enough times (and they surely have) total avoidance as a strategy for them is pretty much off the table. One of the puzzles for Bipto's crew is WHY they persist in hanging around, but nobody professes to know that answer as far as I've read. The NAWAC is camping out where they are because the locals take exception to them being there, maybe. When the NAWAC realized that the BFs were not in danger of being shooed away, the strategy for the study changed. So far, their presumed conditions seem to be holding.

 

Nobody on either side of the equation is thinking the others are not there. Presumed basic animal intelligence foreclosed that approach a long time ago it seems.   What the displays mean, as they have been reported by the NAWAC, is precisely the kind of question I think they are trying to answer.  Support their research, and we might get the answer, and we'll all be smarter for it!

Edited December 16, 2013 by WSA

[Guest]

↑↑↑↑ Bingo. 

Nobody knows why they do what they do or what their intentions are. Any interpretation of their behavior is nothing more than speculation and conjecture. My only caution has been to remind everyone that "they" are probably a social group of individuals so each individual will likely have its own motivations. Some might be shy, some not. Some aggressive, some not. We should not assume that the behavior observed by any individual is indicative of what all of them will or are doing. 

This is one of the things that I think critics get wrong a lot. "Why would this shy animal be in this unlikely place?" As if we know that all of them are always trying to be as far away from humans as possible. My experiences say that's not the case. In at least some instances and in some areas, they are willing to get very close indeed as long as they can do so without being perceived. My opinion is that some of them are intensely curious and don't seem to be able to stop themselves. Furtive is the word to use. "Attempting to avoid notice or attention, typically because of a belief that discovery would lead to trouble." I think that summarizes them perfectly. 

Edited December 16, 2013 by bipto

[Guest DWA]

^^^Which all makes them primates.  Big surprise there.

 

"Why do they do this when they are so elusive no one ever sees one?"  points up lack of attention to both the evidence and to the real behavior patterns of documented animals, primates in particular.

[Drew]

I understand what you are saying, however, if someone wants to say 'Bigfoot has not been found, because it is Elusive', this rock throwing/howling behavior is contradictory to that statement.  

 

Is Bigfoot elusive 100% of the time? Yes.  OK, then why the rock throwing and howling?

Is Bigfoot elusive 95% of the time? Yes.  OK, then we should have killed one or 12 by now.

[WSA]

I think you are right Drew, it would be contradictory.  I think we could all agree the sighting reports don't support that idea though. BFs don't do as good a job of hiding (if that is really their objective) as some would give them credit for.  They would rather not be seen, if I'm correct, but don't necessarily have to go find a BF therapist to address their PTSD if they are. What pushes some of them to initiate an encounter they maybe could otherwise reasonably avoid? Wouldn't we all like to know? Like a lot of other seemingly aberrational behaviors in most other species you could name, my guess is they are perpetrated by the young males. That hormone surge will sure mess you up.  

Edited December 16, 2013 by WSA

[Guest OntarioSquatch]

Rock throwing and howling doesn't necessarily mean they are putting themselves in danger, but I'm sure they too make mistakes like any other real animal.

Edited December 16, 2013 by OntarioSquatch

[Guest DWA]

I understand what you are saying, however, if someone wants to say 'Bigfoot has not been found, because it is Elusive', this rock throwing/howling behavior is contradictory to that statement.  

 

Is Bigfoot elusive 100% of the time? Yes.  OK, then why the rock throwing and howling?

Is Bigfoot elusive 95% of the time? Yes.  OK, then we should have killed one or 12 by now.

I've had up close and personal encounters with some of the most skittish animals you got out there.

 

I think that if sasquatch are real, the vast majority of reports are authentic.  And they indicate an animal that makes the same types of mistakes others do.  The distinction:  no one believes you when you report the mistakes.