Tree Manipulation/ Wood Structures: What Is The Evidence?

[Branco]

There are those who have the ability to know.

Awareness takes practice. It is told that a band of Shawnee spooked while crossing the Ohio in front of an ambush set by Sam Brady's Rangers. He paddled out to mid-river to know why. It was single branch of the ambush blind turned so the underside of the leaves were showing. To some, you might as well put up a road sign. It is knowable.

The significance of that astute observation by the Shawnee - and later by Brady - as it relates to the subject of this forum and particularly this thread - was apparently to much to comprehend for some.     

Hello JKH,

 

 

......Thanks WSA, Branco, etc. for keeping this once constructive thread going.

 

What about me?

 

Hello JKH,

 

 

......Thanks WSA, Branco, etc. for keeping this once constructive thread going.

 

What about me?

AND HIFLIER!!!   

[JKH]

But of course!

[dmaker]

The patterns are that researchers all over the country, for decades, have commonly observed this evidence in conjunction with other indications of their presence, have ruled out other animals and weather, and that this behaviour, specifically using hands in a superhuman fashion, is often included in sighting and audible reports. IOW, this is Bigfoot 101. Blanket dismissal of the phenomena is ignorance and/or disruption, which I've reported.

 

Thanks WSA, Branco, etc. for keeping this once constructive thread going.

Is it blanket dismissal to say that it is far more likely that these are caused by natural events ( weather, plant pathology, human agent, etc), than an unclassified animal? Or is it accept bigfoot as a likely culprit or get reported in your books? 

 

People are allowed to say they don't think bigfoot did it without risking a report. Showing evidence that could easily be explained by something other than an unclassified, 9ft bipedal ape, and then insisting or making up reasons why that ape should be on the list of likely culprits, is going to be met with resistance by some people. If there are other, far more likely scenarios, then there is no reason to constantly shoehorn bigfoot into the list of likely causes. 

 

The title of the thread, is "Tree Manipultion Wood Structures What is the Evidence"?   That invites discussion. That discussion might include people who think the evidence points to mundane causes. The title of the thread is not "Bigfoot Tree Breaks: Let's Talk About How Only Bigfoot Could Have Made Them"

 

Do you see the difference now?

Edited November 3, 2015 by dmaker

[WSA]

Let's be clear and honest dmaker, your position (as we all know it to be) is that NOTHING is ever attributable to BF. You don't hold to any probability other than "zero." What this contributes to a discussion of the evidence is something I've never been quite able to determine. If you want to discuss the evidence, as evidence, with specifics of why it appears to be something else to you, I for one would welcome it. Lobbing rocks and thumbing your nose at the very idea continues to only be disruptive to those who have other goals here. Goals, I would propose, which are in keeping with the purpose of the Forum.

[dmaker]

Let's be equally clear and honest. You want bigfoot to be near the top of every list, that much is clear. I am discussing the evidence when I offer alternatives to "bigfoot did it". You don't want people to consider those alternatives because it steers the focus away from bigfoot as the likely culprit. You will grasp at just about anything to keep bigfoot as the probable source, even when there are far more mundane, and obvious, choices to make. What benefit does that do the conversation and evidence analysis? 

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

Let's be equally clear and honest. You want bigfoot to be near the top of every list, that much is clear. I am discussing the evidence when I offer alternatives to "bigfoot did it". You don't want people to consider those alternatives because it steers the focus away from bigfoot as the likely culprit. You will grasp at just about anything to keep bigfoot as the probable source, even when there are far more mundane, and obvious, choices to make. What benefit does that do the conversation and evidence analysis? 

 

So what kind of tree disease would cause spiral breaks in tree limbs?

 

For that matter what kind of weather phenomenon, other than twisting wind phenomenon such as tornadoes, would cause spiral breaks?

 

Also if a person hangs onto a  tree limb to break it, is the applied force be more likely to be in a vertical direction (read: up and down) or in a twisting motion?

[Incorrigible1]

Snow.

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

Snow.

 

Do you have any photos that show snow damage that twists a branch off a tree? Most of the snow damage I've seen on my trees are tears not twists.

Edited November 3, 2015 by ChasingRabbits

[dmaker]

A plant pathology might not directly cause a spiral break, but could weaken the limb to the point that a spiral break can happen more easily by storm winds, snow, human agent, etc. Plant genetics might also play a role, i.e. a spiral grain. That seems far more likely to me than attributing this to something that hasn't even been proven to exist. 

 

A couple of plant pathology examples might include: ( from http://homeguides.sfgate.com/tree-diseases-cause-upwardcurving-branches-30590.html )

 

Plum Pockets:

Affecting trees in the Prunus genus, plum pockets cause the infected tree to develop discolored, swollen branches that distort, twist and gnarl the tree’s branches and stems.

 

Anthracnose:

Anthracnose is a damaging group of diseases that generally first appear as spots that may have a tar-like appearance on leaves. When the infection reaches the branches, distortion may occur, causing the branches and stems to twist and curve upward

Edited November 3, 2015 by dmaker

[Guest ChasingRabbits]

A plant pathology might not directly cause a spiral break, but could weaken the limb to the point that a spiral break can happen more easily by storm winds, snow, human agent, etc. That seems far more likely to me than attributing this to something that hasn't even been proven to exist. 

 

Okay so what weather (other than a tornado) or animal damage can exert a spiral force which results in a twisting motion and a twisting break?

 

I'm still waiting for photos of snow damage resulting in a spiral break. In fact, I've googled snow and tree damage and so far the pics show a tearing or shearing type of break (read: the force vector is in a vertical or horizontal direction, not a spiral one).

 

For a  human hanging on the end of a tree branch, the force vector would be in a centripetal direction in order to get that spiral or twisting break. Meaning that person would have to have the same skills a gymnast uses on a horizontal bar.

[Guest]

 *snipped*

If a person hangs onto a  tree limb to break it, is the applied force be more likely to be in a vertical direction (read: up and down) or in a twisting motion?

Are tree branches perfectly straight or no? If so than the answer would be, up and down. Where I come from branches have many shapes (YJFhf, to name a few), and hanging on crooked branches creates leverage and twists.

[dmaker]

I have posted the picture of the twisted break from the BFRO report a few pages back to a botanical science forum asking what could lead to breaks like this in nature. I will share the responses when I get some.

[hiflier]

Hello dmaker,

 

A novel approach. Like it and look forward to what they say. A word of caution? They will have questions if they're worth their salt.

[WSA]

There you go Dmaker, thanks for your contribution.

You maybe missed this the first time, but let me quote myself to you:

"I say again: You spend enough time in the woods, you'll see thousands of pushed over, bent over, busted, stacked and twisted trees to which you will not give a second glance. In my years as an A.T. trail maintainer, and clearing blowdowns on lots of other treadways, with everything from a chainsaw, to a two-man ,to a folding pruning saw, I've seen and cleared my share. Most are easily distinguished as arising from natural causes. Most are just victims of entropy and time. There are those that defy glib explanations though."

 

It is the last category that I'm curious about, obviously. I'm arbitrarily labeling those as the .0000001 % of what you might see in a lifetime in the woods. The small percentage doesn't make them any less compelling to me.  

 

It is not as if I'm unaware of the known and documented causes of tree mortality and derangement. We all know them. There are tree diseases plenty, sure. You have to know wood to know what trees typically do, or don't do. You have to know about galls, tree viruses, rusts, fire scalding, insect damage, reaction wood, cultivars, cross-pollinated varieties...all that stuff. Then you have to put in the sweat and miles and years, only then are you likely to notice something that doesn't fit anything else you've seen, heard or read about. That information and experience has brought me to this point, where if it isn't something with hands doing this, I'm open to anything plausible that fits the context. An explanation of "anything but BF" is not much help at all. 

[AaronD]

*************************************STAFF WARNING !!!!!*******************************************

 

Look folks--we have a problem here!! The bickering back and forth, making off topic posts, underhanded and thinly disguised personal insults--ALL HAS TO STOP NOW!!!!! This will be your only warning!!!