Tree Manipulation/ Wood Structures: What Is The Evidence?

[ShadowBorn]

BigTreeWalker

Have you placed any trail camera's in that area to see what game passes through that area ? If it is so well hidden then it must be a corridor  where elk and deer travel through from one spot to another. If it is a ambush area have you found any rocks along the trail that could have been used to stun a elk or deer?  Are there any open fields between the trails or line of travel as you walk this trail? and if there are how far up the trail are the open fields? The next question is are there any bedding areas near this trail that elk or even deer could be heading too? There are just that there could be so many things to think about this and to try to understand why will just boggle your mind. But the more you investigate the more it will become clear as to why this is done. It might not even be done for hunting but more for humans as a sign. Like a bill board saying " hey people we live here and this is our area stay out" so who knows. Have you been growled at in this area? Have you had tree falling when there is no wind in this area?

 

Crow is not bad and is some one who can keep one grounded, if he has researched this for a long time then sure I am going to listen. He has put his time and more then what I have. He brings the skeptical side that is needed and how I see it we all have ego's that every so often need to be bumped down a little bit so that we do not get high and mighty. If I take flak for defending his position well so be it, but skeptism is what is needed to knowing the truth.

[Guest Crowlogic]

While we're giving  a vaporous manape  engineering skills the ripple effect of the great American dumb down continues to spread.  Flat earth belief is making a comeback.  

[norseman]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Snl4U8HPdtQ

[Guest WesT]

Ignorance is bliss and does have an endearing quality about it. My purpose in sharing what I had found was to raise awareness, not raise funds. I've heard the ridicule of the subject, and to a degree I can sympathize with it. But I actually learned something new, your mileage may vary.

 

BigTW, the last pic you showed is very similar to a pic kbhunter showed me back in 2013. He found it in Kentucky.  I wish he could weigh in on this but I think he's been busy with other things as of late.

[ShadowBorn]

Wes

I that not the purpose? to raise awareness to what is happening in our wilderness and to tell the difference between what is made between man and beast. I also agree with what MIB is saying as well , that if it was not for the internet we would have not known about these stick formations. That we would have not even gone to investigate them and learned some thing from them that some could have been made by man and that some could have been made by these creatures. Our problem is learning to know the difference of who made them.  We just cannot go out and say that these structures were made by these creatures when man can make them as well. It depends on how we interpret the formations and our findings surrounding the formations. Like have there been encounters in these areas, or have there been prints found in these areas that cannot be explain ect. ect ect.... Even a upclose sighting would  do while staking out these structures  that confirm that these structure were meant by them. This type of clarification would be ideal  that shows that yes they were used by these creatures. Just my opinion.

[WSA]

While I am intrigued by all kinds of structures, or those that appear to be the result of manipulation, it is the larger ones that really get my attention. If you find one of those, which appears to be outside of the probabilities of random chance, and which required strength and ability beyond that of a non-assisted human...well, those defy glib explanations. And there are plenty of those out there, we've seen. Shouting ever louder about how this is or that is impossible, while looking at it,  is what fools do.

[BigTreeWalker]

ShadowBorn, as I said I have not posted any other structures other than those X 's and possibly one twist. I have posted some naturally occurring shelters under trees and rootballs that could provide shelter.

Fields have nothing to do with it. Those areas in themselves are feeding spots for elk if you have followed my posts. I would not trade my lifetime of experience in the outdoors with any change in attitude Crowlogic has had over the years about how he sees the subject of bigfoot. That is simply trolling and has nothing to do with anyone else's personal experience. I suggested what the Xs could be used for, which makes the most sense. As I said, if they are no trespassing signs then they are too subtle for me. I've never gotten any reaction from passing them. Also placing trailcams after the fact is an effort in futility. Placing them in any likely place is a crapshoot when it comes to bigfoot anyway. And yes I do have some pictures of unknowns in this area but that is the most I or anyone else can discern from them.

Just as an aside. Elk are herd animals and do behave differently from deer. In a way it actually makes them an easier target for any predator as long as that predator is big enough to handle their size. They rely on herd instincts rather than stealth as deer do. I personally find them easier to hunt than deer. Because I can usually get closer to them.

[BigTreeWalker]

While I am intrigued by all kinds of structures, or those that appear to be the result of manipulation, it is the larger ones that really get my attention. If you find one of those, which appears to be outside of the probabilities of random chance, and which required strength and ability beyond that of a non-assisted human...well, those defy glib explanations. And there are plenty of those out there, we've seen. Shouting ever louder about how this is or that is impossible, while looking at it,  is what fools do.

WSA, I understand what you are asking about. But here in the PNW the forests are so thick I have my doubts that I will find anything that couldn't be attributed to random chance. From my experience it happens more than we think. I could be wrong there and have yet to find something like that I can't explain. Up to this time I have shared the best possibilities I have found to represent manipulation. Other than that I will continue to keep my eyes open.

[MIB]

That's all we can do, keep our eyes open now that we know there's something to keep them open for, then carefully analyze what we see, assess the indicators we find including whether the components are chopped, sawed, twisted, etc and for those not done with tools, how much strength is required.   Look at the size of the components and what means people might have for accomplishing the thing.    Unless we see a thing being built and used, we can't be absolutely certain, but we can certainly take a SWAG at the probability of what made it.

 

I've never personally found a shelter of any sort with the maybe exception of that pile of large broken, not cut or chopped, branches heaped over the very large stump.   The negatives for it being bigfoot are proximity to the road and it didn't really offer any strategic ambush opportunities or clear views of anything    I will not go so far as to say it wasn't, can't say for sure that it was, so what is left is "hmmm, that's interesting."  Y' know ... that's an answer I'm very comfortable with.   I prefer acknowledging that I don't know to latching onto an answer I'm not certain of.

 

MIB

[WSA]

"Interesting" is a perfectly fine response MIB, I couldn't agree more. This is just one piece of the puzzle, or it might even be a piece of a different puzzle altogether. For now, those who profess to know which it is are destined to fall short. All we can do is document and give our best guesses. Those who stand in opposition to this idea aren't even guessing if they bring nothing more than hand-waving and statements of the obvious.   

[BigTreeWalker]

I've found many interesting things in the forest. Some I can explain, some I can't. Made my share of WAGs as well. I try to document everything of a questionable nature. What gives me a headache is sharing some of what I document here. But then I constantly have to remind myself that some of what I have shared is in the research section and not everyone here has access to that. I do admit that tree manipulation in regards to bigfoot has been way down on my list of possibilities until some of what we have found lately brings that way of thinking into question.

For those that want to know the context of what I do; I use old roads or trails as access. Then I head into the forest away from them. I can tell you this, the amount of other individuals I have met out there away from the roads and trails, I can count them on one hand. My experience, around here (PNW), is that people just don't get very far out of their comfort zones. Our trail cams support this observation. When placed on the old walkable roads in the area you get about 50/50 elk and people. I have one area well covered away from these roads where we have recorded audio activity. In 5 months I've gotten the two unknowns I mentioned above and a lone mushroom picker. And bears, coyotes, and of course lots of elk and deer.

[WSA]

I too love the feeling of believing I might be the lone visitor to some areas in a long, long time, if ever. Of course, the skeptic would rebut that with, "Well, YOU are there. How can you believe others have not been there?"  One reason is of course my experience, like yours. If you are a frequent visitor to an area, and never or very rarely encounter anyone, that is pretty persuasive. You also have to look at possible or probably reasons for anyone to go there. Hunters cover a lot of ground, we think, but do they really? Most, like the majority of forest visitors, stick close to trails or roads. The obvious reasons is, if you are hunting bigger game: You're going to have to get your kill out of there somehow. Why create work if you think you have an equal chance of getting lucky close to a transportation corridor?  Too, most people, hunters included, are easily spooked when alone in remote areas. Some like that feeling. I sure do. But I realize I'm one of the sick unfortunate few.  I worry it might someday get me in over my head... but so far so good! 

 

And the reason I seek out areas like that is because you tend to see the coolest stuff, and you have the thrill of an experience very few are likely to share with you. 

 

What is interesting to me is that many of the areas surrounding populated areas have reverted to a no-man's land just because there is no plausible reason for anyone to seek them out and travel through them. They are often swampy, littered and ugly, full of abandoned structures and vehicles, construction trash and illegal dumps.   They are cut-off by boundaries like railroad tracks, or highways, or utility right of ways, or just secondary brush so dense you'd have to have a good reason for even attempting it. If BF has some tolerance to human proximity (and the sighting reports confirm for me they do) these areas are a huge swath of their habitat and they are as likely to go as undetected as they would in the interior of British Columbia. I would wager you would find multitudes of structures in those areas, and they would probably go unremarked by anyone if found and attributed to vagrants or other transient peoples. 

[BigTreeWalker]

That's the way I look at it WSA. I'm not naive in thinking no one has been in the area. Most forests in the PNW are second and third growth stands. There has certainly been timber cruisers, surveyors and loggers in there. In the old growth areas without logging you still have a few hunters, miners, rangers. Most hunters are road hunters and don't get off the roads very far because of the reasons you state. The exception to that rule are a few deer hunters and archery hunters around here. Not saying that's always the case but it appears to be the norm. Since deer always move closer to the edges of our civilized areas it's not a stretch that other more stealthy animals would follow suit.

One question that constantly comes to my mind is why would hoaxers hide their handiwork in the areas that I frequent. Because that is exactly what they would be doing and that seems to be the skeptics go to. SWWSP asked this same question. The other go to is, you misinterpreted what occurred. Speaking for myself, if at all possible I investigate any unusual occurrences and never accept anything at face value. Some you can't investigate, but you do the best you can to eliminate other possibilities.

Just the other day I eliminated one to my satisfaction. My son and I heard a loud breathing/snort. My first impression was a bear. I unholstered my gun and approached the area. We were downwind so that wasn't a problem. As it continued it was creepy to say the least. Proceeding with much caution we got to where I could see up through the trees. It turned out to be an elk. Don't know what was wrong with it, maybe it was calving. We left quietly without disturbing it. But I intend to return to the spot and check it out. The funny thing was there was a bear and cubs caught on one of our cams within 200 yards of us at the same time. Which I would have never known without that camera.

[ShadowBorn]

I too love the feeling of believing I might be the lone visitor to some areas in a long, long time, if ever. Of course, the skeptic would rebut that with, "Well, YOU are there. How can you believe others have not been there?"  One reason is of course my experience, like yours. If you are a frequent visitor to an area, and never or very rarely encounter anyone, that is pretty persuasive. You also have to look at possible or probably reasons for anyone to go there. Hunters cover a lot of ground, we think, but do they really? Most, like the majority of forest visitors, stick close to trails or roads. The obvious reasons is, if you are hunting bigger game: You're going to have to get your kill out of there somehow. Why create work if you think you have an equal chance of getting lucky close to a transportation corridor?  Too, most people, hunters included, are easily spooked when alone in remote areas. Some like that feeling. I sure do. But I realize I'm one of the sick unfortunate few.  I worry it might someday get me in over my head... but so far so good!

 

And the reason I seek out areas like that is because you tend to see the coolest stuff, and you have the thrill of an experience very few are likely to share with you.

Bigtreewalker

Thanks for clearing me up with the elk and how it goes with them, I have no experience with them. So some knowledge of their behavior is good, I have only had one encounter with a bull elk and this was in Wyoming. It stood five feet from me on a road that I was hiking on and it was big and amazing, will never forget it. He was the most amazing creature I have ever seen besides Bigfoot. I was only fifteen years old and to me this was the most amazing thing at that time.

 

WSA

This is the way that I like to hunt away from other people on public land in the most scariest place there. Where no one like to go and I know that big bucks live in deep swamp area where it is rough. I like it there since it is peace full and it gives me a chance to see things that most people will never see in there life time. Every year I always wonder what will happen next and what I will see off my stand. The only times that it is freaky is walking out there in the dark early in the mornings and walking out late in the evenings with the lite out. I do this since I do not want no one to know where my stand is and most of the time I am alone.

 

Now I am teaching my son and he loves it, we both now hear the same thing. So I love what you have said, since we really are not alone when we are hiking and scouting. My son now sees for himself the behavior of the creatures that roam our forest in Michigan and how everything is connected. He teaches me some times as do I him. We work together good but I tell him that I might not be able to keep him safe. So for it is important that he learns how to nav with a compass and close roads. Just in case if he needs to get out quickly. But this is for a different thread BigTreeWalker sorry for not keeping up on this thread.

 

there is only so much one can take with this type of evidence, Sometimes you find these structures and you just have to say WTF and sit back and laugh, cause you know they were not there yesterday and now they are there today on your path. Done over night, what on earth does this. Sure we can say hoaxers who just want to mess with your mind, but why do it over and over. Why no human tracks left and why leave little ones that are hidden as well, which I do not get. Then to leave them on path that only you know that you made. What are there hoaxer that spy on you all the time just to mess with you all the time. It is like a beacon , like they are letting you know we are here and yes we made them. What are you going to do now? that is the feeling I get when I find these structures. I do not get this from the man made ones , But my hairs do stand up when I do find the ones where I should not find anything. Those unexplained ones.

[BigTreeWalker]

You see ShadowBorn, since I happen to think from all the reports I have read, things I have experienced and evidence I myself have found,that bigfoot exists. I don't need to see one to know what I have found. That's why it's easier for me to think the structures we've found were probably made by bigfoot and not people. It's a harder stretch of imagination to even think people are going into these out of the way areas just to hoax others. If I am wrong, all I can say is there are some very dedicated hoaxers out there. If the skeptics can prove to me that there is such a knowledgeable (they would have to be to do what I have seen), dedicated bunch of people out there doing these things maybe I'll change my mind about the subject. Until then I will continue to do as I always have and enjoy our forests and continue to keep my eyes and ears open.