Not Enough Wilderness In Midwest To Support Bigfoot?

[Guest]

Then, like many others out there, you've got no grasp on what it takes for them to "exist" in places. *They* are *here*. Maybe not in great numbers, but here none-the-less.

 

No, I'm saying that they are in Indiana in zero numbers. Indiana has no mountains, no wilderness, and no back country. There are no lonely, isolated parts of the state. The vast majority of Indiana has been developed for farming and almost all of the undeveloped areas are used recreationally. To suggest that there are bigfoot, you have to name a part of the state where no one fishes, no one hunts, no one traps, no one hikes, no one hunts for mushrooms, and no one pans for gold. Then explain how these habitats are connected to other breeding populations.

 

I can say that this absolutely cannot be done unless you are claiming that bigfoot are purely vegetarian like gorillas. Sure, if bigfoot were browsers like whitetail deer then maintaining a connected range could be possible. However, for an omnivore, it is not. A connected, breeding population for a large omnivore in Indiana is pure fantasy.

[Guest]

All an animal needs is a place to hole up and rest.  Even in very open country - particularly in lots and lots of it - he doesn't need to be hidden by forest all day long.  The space alone will do it for most of the day.

 

"If there are no lights, an open meadow is as good as a forest, miles of corn field becomes as good as miles of wilderness.

 

This would be quite true if they never eat. What exactly would a bigfoot eat in an open meadow or a cornfield? The question is not where a bigfoot could park its butt; it's where a bigfoot would have habitat. This means water (which is not available on the Great Plains), food, and some way to survive in cold weather. For example, Idaho is certainly remote enough to have bigfoot wandering around but it's also cold in the winter. How would bigfoot survive?

 

Do bigfoot hibernate like black bear? Do bigfoot put on a lot of insulating fat? Do bigfoot gather up some kind of food that can last during the winter? Or do bigfoot migrate?

[Guest]

Well, there's 14 on the BFRO database.  Reading them, I'm not seeing the 'copycat' or 'he's crazy' or 'he's lying' in them, any more than I am from any other states.

 

Okay, let's look at some of these accounts.

 

I had the Bigfoot sighting On the night of July 4th 1996 at about 02:00 on the actual date of the 5th. I was on the highway 385 going South towards Hemingford. I had just come out of the Cocrine hill section of the highway. I was going around a sharp curve in the highway, and had my high beams on in my truck. As I rounded the curve I saw a tall human like form take 2 or 3 steps onto the edge of the road, and then stop as if to wait for traffic to clear. I slowed way down to see if it was someone needing a ride. As I got next to the big foot i noticed that the creature was around 8 to 9 feet tall, and was covered head to toe in long black fur. I got scared, and being alone I stepped on the gas, and stopped 5 miles or so down the road to process what I had just seen. The big foot also had arms that hung lower, and longer than that of humans.

 

Follow-up investigation report by BFRO Investigator Mitch S.:

I spoke with the witness at length and he seemed very credible. A few things to note that were not in the initial report, were the detailed descriptions of the animal. The witness stated that he was driving a Nissan pickup and the animal was about 4 feet higher than his truck. The animal was on the left hand side of the road standing directly on the white line of the highway. He slowed down both because he thought it was a stranded person and because of the dangerous curve on the road. It was at the bottom of a steep valley with a hard curve over a culvert and creek bed. He stated that the animal was pure black with coarse hair. He did not get a good look at his face because it was mostly a side profile in his high beams. He repeated several times that the arm length was extraordinary. Even though it was a full moon, he said that the bottom of the valley was dark. The valley is full of Ponderosa pine trees. The vehicle behind him was estimated to be a half of a mile back. The highway was actually on Nebraska Highway 2, not 385. Highway 2 and 385 merge together, but not for a few more miles South.

 

The investigation report looks fairly good. I'm glad he corrected the highway. This looks to me like a completely credible sighting of a black bear, most likely a male.

 

 

While traveling southbound on highway 77, near Blue Springs, Nebraska, I encountered a very large bi-pedal creature. As I came around a gentle left curve in the road, this creature stepped up out of the ditch on my side and with one stride was upon the road bed and with two more strides was across and going down into the ditch on the other side, a car coming the other way also saw this and we both slowed to a crawl as we came to the spot, I asked if they saw something and they responded they had also seen it.

 

This seems like a sighting of a person.

 

 

Driving back towards (*) I decided to look for deer in the ravines as I past. I came to a ravine about 4 or 5 miles east of (*). When I looked into the ravine (south) I saw a large Gorilla looking thing about 40 to 50 ft away. I estimated it to be about 7 feet tall and had coal colored hair about 3-4 inches in length all over its body. I could only see from about the knees up. It's face was more human than ape and lighter in color, kind of a dark tan color (could not tell if it was skin or very short hair on it's face). It had almost nothing for a neck.

It looked right at me for about 2 seconds. Then it turned around and ran on two feet up the ravine (south).

When it turned it twisted it's whole torso as if a person with a sore neck would do. It turned from it's right to it's left. It also had thrown its right arm accross it's face as if to gain momentum for it's turn or maybe hide. As it turned I could see it's muscles of it's upper back and shoulders ripple. This thing had to be very strong. When it ran it made very little noise, crunching of twigs of leaves. I would guess it's weight to be about 300 to 350 lbs.

I got the feeling that the thing was traveling south to north to the river.

 

 

Another sighting of a person.

 

It was a very cold winter morning (maybe December 1979 or January 1980), I lived on a farm. We had a long driveway and the mail box was at the end of the driverway. Just west of the mail box was a long shelterbelt with lots of trees. I went down to get the mail and pulled up to the mail box in my pickup when something caught my eye walking in the field so I pulled up to see better. What I saw was a large man like thing walking south in the field toward the sherlterbelt. It was approx. 1/4 mile west of me and approx. 10 to 20 yards north of the shelterbelt. I saw it for about 10 to 12 seconds is all. I remember it being dark brown with long hair. The wind was blowing fairly hard out of the north and I remember seeing the hair on it's arms and face blowing toward the front of it because the wind was at it's back. I also remember it having long arms and it took big steps. It kind of turned it's head and looked a little toward me and then walked a little faster and disappeared in the trees. I know it wasn't a man because no one would have been walking out there on such a cold morning.

 

This appears to be another person. I have to say though that the statement that a person wouldn't be walking out there on a cold morning seems silly at best.

 

I do find it rather funny when someone says something like, "it couldn't have been a person because it was too big." This kind of statement only counts if the creature is, say, five steps away or is standing someplace where a direct height comparison can be made. Yet, I've seen these types of statements many times with sightings a 1/4 mile away and where there was nothing around for comparison. Now, again, I do know that some will still insist that sightings are to be believed absolutely without any questioning of any kind. For those who want to argue this, let me tell you that my brother was mistaken for a bigfoot and the same statements were made: "It couldn't have been a person because it was too large." My brother is 5' 2" tall.

[Incorrigible1]

Not unlike the opening post of another thread, where a handslap on a house is definitive proof of a bigfoot.

 

In scientia's posting, the report on Highway 77 is within the eastern third of Nebraska. You know, the part where 2/3 of the state's population reside.

[Guest]

Not midwest, but just tall grass

 

This on the other hand, looks fake, but the date is really old, before BF was popular again.

 

Those two videos are rather funny. The first one just looks like a person running; I'm not sure what the big deal is. The second one has been studied more. It was initially claimed that the figure had to be moving something like 45 mph. When the path was ran by an actual person though, it matched. So, that destroyed the "too fast to be human" claim. Secondly, in the second part where the figure comes back into view, he lifts something up on his head. This is generally assumed to be some type of hood or mask that was lifted up apparently because the person was sweating heavily after running in a suit. One of the extraordinarily laughable explanations was that it was a female bigfoot and she had lifted a baby on top of her shoulders and that was why the height changed. Personally, I think it was a bigfoot late for a formal gathering and he had just put his top hat on.

[Guest]

The creatures were moving from the more forested side of the valley towards a V-shaped opening that leads to an adjacent valley. The previously mentioned swamp is near this opening, and a small creek flows into the lower valley. Our recreation indicated that the two creatures were approximately 9 feet and 7.5 feet tall.

 

 

How exactly did you arrive at that height estimate? I don't see anything in the picture for a comparison.

 

Besides their size, humans can reasonably be ruled out because they didn’t break their stride at all as they easily stepped over a 42.5 inch-tall barbed wire fence.

 

And you know that was the height of the fence because you did an investigation the same day, right? You identified the path and found the exact spot where they crossed the fence? And, then you checked the surrounding fence area to make sure that there were no places nearby that were lower. And you even tried stepping over the fence yourself to make sure that it truly was impossible. I mean, I assume that to make such a positive statement, you did not come back weeks later and roughly estimate the track based only on the memories of the observers and then just make an assumption about the height of fence. You were more thorough than that, right?

[Guest]

And there you have it in a nut-shell. You have expectations that want to jam a square object in a round hole, so it simply can't be possible, if it doesn't fit your expectations.

 

I don't have expectations. If you would like to explain how a bigfoot can be round instead of square, that is fine. The northernmost ranging primate that I know of is the Japanese macaque. Now, I know that these range as far north as northern Honshu. I looked up the weather information for Mutsu which is a town at the far northern end of Honshu. There is a weather monitoring station there. The coldest average daily minimum for January was in 1935 at 13 degrees F. It gets colder than that in Indiana to say nothing of Nebraska or the Yukon. I also don't know of a primate that hibernates. The gorilla is the obvious large vegetarian primate. However, I also know that being a hindgut fermenter is not as effective. So, there are plants that gorillas swallow twice (similar to rabbits).

[Guest]

There have been sightings in both the Pine Ridge and Rosebud Indian reservations- both of which are very close to the Nebraska border. Pine Ridge is *on* the border). Again, there are enough sightings in the area that Finding BF deigned to do an episode there.

 

That is not far from Mt Rushmore where there are black bear. I'm sure that is just a coincidence though.

 

However there is a pretty well-known BF sighting that was apparently caught on an Indian Casino security cam in Oklahoma. In this case the casino and reservation are well out on the flats with no woods at all- similar terrain to Nebraska. There is a Bigfoot Show podcast from several years ago that focused on this sighting. 

 

There was a reconstruction of the tape about six years ago. This was not the actual tape. That was said to have been destroyed. For the nothing that it's worth, you can see the imaginative reconstruction here:

Edited October 27, 2013 by scientia

[Incorrigible1]

Somebody's on a roll. Kudos.

 

For the record, the only place a bigfoot creature could call home, in the state of Nebraska, is along the eastern border, the Missouri river banks. There is probably sufficient dense woods and suitable habitat. That area, however, has been the most intensely populated of anywhere in the state since the early 19th century.

[Guest]

Maybe the sasquatch were just as ellusive

 

I don't think the word 'elusive' actually applies. Leopards are well known to be elusive and in this hemisphere jaguar and mountain lions are pretty elusive. But bigfoot take this to a whole new level. You can go out and find mountain lion tracks and then follow them with dogs. But oddly enough, that doesn't work with bigfoot. What most people don't know is that bigfoot are so sneaky that they erase their own tracks, pick their own fur off of briars and thorns, pick up their own poop, and are able to remove the scent from their feet so that even bloodhounds cannot follow them. That's well beyond elusive. I realize that a bigfoot poop storage facility has never been found but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

[Guest]

As long as you only see BF as just an animal, then you'll never see it for it's intelligent, sentient side... which is why it has the capacity to go and be places you can't imagine it would go. (granted it's just some animal)

 

Well, I wasn't aware of that. Being intelligent of course, they make tools, right? They probably also make huts to live in, roads and bridges, and maybe some kind of temples or monuments. If you could just give the locations of the bigfoot monuments we can easily settle this. Of course, I'm not familiar with bigfoot culture or religion. I'm not familiar with bigfoot art or music either. Is the tree knocking part of their musical heritage? Do they raise livestock or do they farm? I think the location of a bigfoot farm or ranch would do. Do bigfoot have schools? Do they have a written language? You seem well versed on bigfoot so please share.

[Guest]

A skeptic ALSO has the burden of proof to bear as well.

 

Yes, it's quite a burden. I have to disprove the existence of bigfoot, flying pink ponies, carpet gophers, mason ants, tapdancing shrews, hoop snakes, puffer rabbits, racing sloth, hopping snails, pinwheel flowers, parasol pheasants, and many others.

[Guest]

I don't think the word 'elusive' actually applies. Leopards are well known to be elusive and in this hemisphere jaguar and mountain lions are pretty elusive. But bigfoot take this to a whole new level. You can go out and find mountain lion tracks and then follow them with dogs. But oddly enough, that doesn't work with bigfoot. What most people don't know is that bigfoot are so sneaky that they erase their own tracks, pick their own fur off of briars and thorns, pick up their own poop, and are able to remove the scent from their feet so that even bloodhounds cannot follow them. That's well beyond elusive. I realize that a bigfoot poop storage facility has never been found but I'm sure it's only a matter of time.

by the same logic these tracks can easily be proved faked by a human. Why hasen't that happened?

[Guest]

by the same logic these tracks can easily be proved faked by a human. Why hasen't that happened?

 

I'm afraid I'm not understanding your question. A dog with a good nose which tends to be either a true bloodhound (not the ruined AKC variety) or the same breeds used for raccoons (english, blue tick, red bone, walker, black and tan, and maybe even mountain cur) are easily capable of tracking bear and mountain lion. Why has one never, ever, ever, ever been able to track a bigfoot? You either have to conclude that bigfoot are using foot deodorant or that the tracks are not made by a bigfoot.

[GuyInIndiana]

No, I'm saying that they are in Indiana in zero numbers. Indiana has no mountains, no wilderness, and no back country. There are no lonely, isolated parts of the state.

 

And all *I'm* saying is, that if you believe THOSE THINGS MUST be present for the creature to be present, you're not learning anything about the creatures.

Well, I wasn't aware of that. Being intelligent of course, they make tools, right?

 

Why? Why does what's "intelligent" keep falling into parameters that YOU define narrowly? You leap to an assumption about tools, with no reasoning or need for it to be true.