Invisible Bigfoot & Alternative Thinking

[Guest ShadowPrime]

I want to put this carefully, because I fully recognize that to some, my basic position - which is that I think that the cumulative body of sightings, footprints, film, etc is enough to make me think that BF MIGHT be "out there" - is seen as ridiculous. Given that, far be it from me to rain on someone else's parade, to treat them disrespectfully, for what THEY believe.

That being said, when I describe my position on BF, I usually describe myself as skeptically positive, or skeptically open-minded, meaning I don't consider BF's reality to be "proven", but I do think there is a reasonable possibility that BF exists... while, at the same time, I don't check my critical reasoning abilities at the door. I try, as much as possible, to bring a healthy, balanced skepticism to the things I evaluate.

And, with all due respect, IMHO, it is "fantastic enough" to consider that maybe a huge, "undiscovered" bipedal ape/hominid is running round North America, without further asserting that it has the "powers" of invisibility, ESP, and dimension-hopping. BF the animal would be remarkable, but it would, at the end of the day, be "just" an animal. BF the supernatural, light/time/distance warping super being? Zapping in and out of the astral plane, piloting UFOs? Etc?

Further, we spend a LOT Of time on this Board talking about burdens of proof, the scientific method and outlook, etc. If you postulate that BF is a supernatural being who can defy the laws of science and physics, then I guess NOTHING it outside the realm of possibility. So where does that leave you? To someone like me, it would be problematic if a series of alleged BF footprints ended abruptly, or if someone reported seeing a BF in, say, the middle of NYC. But if you believe BF can go anywhere, do anything, then is there any alleged evidence you can "reject"?

Sorry...my longwinded way of saying ... to each his own, but when we come up to the line where, on one side we have "BF the flesh and blood animal" and on the other we have "BF the time travelling, dimension hopping, invisibility cloaked boogyman"... I remain on the "flesh and blood animal" side.

Just sayin'...

Shadow

Shadow

[Guest Knuck]

Of course I am of the opinion that those who believe in Physical Bigfoots, and those that believe in Invisible Bigfoots, are in the same boat.

Neither one has any verifiable evidence.

The advantage of the Invisible Bigfoot people, is that they can say "Of course there is no evidence, it is an invisible being."

The Physical Bigfoot people have to say, "Of course there is no evidence, Bigfoot is too smart, cunning etc... to get caught."

Very similar.

Spoken like a true closet believer.-Knuck

[Guest]

I too feel the "drug" reference's are uncalled for in a adult conversation. Even tho I took them as just a figure of speach from TooRisky. I find it blur's the lines in civilized discussion. At best it can be construed as a inept expression of frustration, at worst a passive-aggressive bit of mud-slinging. Either way I find it unsettling and distracting from the posters original thoughts. Whether BF's seeminly unusual behavior or "talents" if you will have a rational as of yet unexplained scientific explaination, it still bears looking at and not covered up or dismissed as flight's of fancy by the witness's. The fact that this type of thing is experienced worldwide from Yeti's to Yowies to Bigfoot to the Almas can't merely just be a coincidence.

[Guest Blackdog]

There was a guy named Historian, he tried to explain invisible Bigfoot at the JREF forum, he was eventually banned. I wonder if anyone knows how to contact him.

The PM feature works fine here.

[Guest UnknownHairyOne]

Why even bother discussing this topic in this forum when most here are attempting to reconcile this enigmatic figure in the first place. When I first saw one of the big ones (probably close to 10 ft), I said to myself "How in the hell can something that big run around in this forest without being seen or even leaving ridiculous track signs everywhere." I have experienced much more since then and know much more than I tell. I leave you with the question that came to my mind at that moment. All the other stuff is probably left to a special forum and not this one. This forum is a skeptic's forum and for those who demand evidence. Proving invisibility or telepathic control of one's senses to render invisibility will never be proved or believed. Why bother? Just stick to the I know nothing Colonel Klink line in here. You'll have a better chance of escaping the nice complements. Peace!

Edited April 6, 2011 by UnknownHairyOne

[kitakaze]

Is this accepted by the main stream researchers?

No!

It depends on who you ask, Susie, though certainly Bigfoot being a flesh and blood species only is the more popular belief. Henry Franzoni is a respected longtime Bigfoot researcher/author/ who was behind much of getting the subject of Bigfoot on the Internet in the early 90's. Here is Henry on National Geographic and at the Yakima Bigfoot Round-Up for Bob Gimlin...

Henry Franzoni was a contributor to the NASI Bigfoot report and has written extensively on the subject. His book In the Spirit of Seatco: Sasquatch, Indians, Geography, and Science in the Nineteenth Century explores the metaphysical nature of Bigfoot and native cultures in North America. Franzoni was a longtime supporter of F&B Bigfoot who became a proponent of paranormal Bigfoot.

You can check out his book here...

http://www.henryfranzoni.com/itsos.html

[Guest Tsalagi]

I find it interesting that when its to someone's benefit in proving Bigfoot exists they always will point to old Native stories as one way to validate their view of his existence. Yet some of the very same people will turn around and ridicule ideas that Natives hold of things like shape shifting or the idea that something can live in more than one dimension at a time even when yes some Natives say this about Bigfoot. Just sayin'...

[Guest toejam]

I have an experiment I try sometimes when in a location that is frequented by others.

I'l hear someone coming down a trail towards me.

I'll stand off trail but close enough to be seen if they look.

I stand still, make no noise and only once in over 2 years has someone whipped their head around as they jogged by.

It's easy for Biggie to stand there looking like a tree while we walk past completely oblivious.

I think they're flesh and blood. They're just that good at blending with their domain.

[Guest]

I find it interesting that when its to someone's benefit in proving Bigfoot exists they always will point to old Native stories as one way to validate their view of his existence. Yet some of the very same people will turn around and ridicule ideas that Natives hold of things like shape shifting or the idea that something can live in more than one dimension at a time even when yes some Natives say this about Bigfoot. Just sayin'...

That's a very good observation Tsalagi, one I too have mentioned in the past. Glad you made it! Its striking.

[Guest]

Henry F is a very intelligent individual with plenty of credibility in my book. He and I have chatted some on the past. I also look forward to having a longer discussion with him in the near future.

[Guest]

The fact that this type of thing is experienced worldwide from Yeti's to Yowies to Bigfoot to the Almas can't merely just be a coincidence.

Why not? There are people in all of those places, and human societies have always developed folklore and superstitious beliefs. The fact that many cultures from different parts of the world develop folklore that includes wild people living in the hinterlands doesn't surprise me in the least.

[gigantor]

I agree Saskeptic. i wonder if there has ever been a study conducted to determine the percentage of cultures with such superstitions?

I would think it is a high number.

Edited April 7, 2011 by gigantor

[gigantor]

... and most significantly, the scientific pursuit of alternate dimensions. That is one of the basic premise of modern physics today. The vast majority of physicists subscribe to there being alternate dimensions. It remains a goal of the Hadron Collider.

Search for microscopic black hole signatures at the Large Hadron Collider

December 15^th 2010

The CMS experiment at CERN’s Large Hadron Collider (LHC) has completed a search for microscopic black holes produced in high-energy proton-proton collisions. No evidence for their production was found and their production has been excluded up to a black hole mass of 3.5-4.5 TeV (10¹² electron volts) in a variety of theoretical models.

Microscopic black holes are predicted to exist in some theoretical models that attempt to unify General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics by postulating the existence of extra “curled-up” dimensions, in addition to the three familiar spatial dimensions. At the high energies of the Large Hadron Collider, such theories predict that particles may collide “closely enough” to be sensitive to these postulated extra dimensions. In such a case, the colliding particles could interact gravitationally with strengths similar to those of the other three fundamental forces – the Electromagnetic, Weak and Strong interactions. The two colliding particles might then form a microscopic black hole.

If it were so produced, a microscopic black hole would evaporate immediately, producing a distinctive spray of sub-atomic particles of normal matter. These would then be observed in the high-precision CMS detector that surrounds the LHC collision point. CMS has searched for such events amongst all the proton-proton collisions recorded during the 2010 LHC running at 7 TeV centre-of-mass energy (3.5 TeV per proton beam).

No experimental evidence for microscopic black holes has been found. This non-observation rules out the existence of microscopic black holes up to a mass of 3.5–4.5 TeV for a range of theoretical models that postulate extra dimensions.

The CMS results have been submitted for publication in the Physics Letters journal.

Edited April 7, 2011 by gigantor

[kitakaze]

Well we are all entitled to our opinions and here is mine... It is a flesh and blood master of its domain... UFO, aliens and interdenominational travel is all fine and dandy for a B grade movie but if you think it is hard proving this species exists, think again if it is interdenominational... So lets us all put the bong down, step away from the table and go clear our heads... As always IMHO...

(Bolding mine.) Jodie's onto something. What phase of the moon produces the most lunacy?

How would one investigate a dimension-jumping sasquatch? Where can I get a Ghost Busters positron collider?

Like TR states, the creature, if it exists, is a flesh and blood master of its environment, not possessing any pseudo-scientific mumbo-jumbo.

These are creatures the good Lord put on this Earth, what they are is to be found out but... "They Are"

My instinct is to dismiss anything where para-normal and monkee are in the same sentence. Back in the day whenever EB wrote or posted anything linking monkees & the paranormal, I would leave skid marks distancing myself from it. Still a good policy concerning the Fringe...

You can not write irony thicker than this. How quickly the believers become the very thing they scorn so much in "scoftics." How gob-smacking is the irony of dimissing Bigfoot as a metaphysical entity while invoking a metaphysical entity?

For every scoff above, replace paranormal Bigfoot with just Bigfoot. Bong pipes? Lunacy and phases of the moon? That seriously just came from some Bigfoot believers towards other Bigfoot believers. If I ever see the above posters talking about "scoftics"... wait a minute...

Look, it's not as if I'm one of the myriad "scoftics" that run rampant upon this forum.

Aaaah... that was too good. I1 is not one of the myriad of scoftics on this forum, unless it is for alternatives to F&B Bigfoot. Then it's making lunar insanity references in textbook scoffing style. Too good!

And for TooRisky...

On the contrary, people come to the "Bigfoot Forums" to discuss their experiences and encounters looking for some answer or possibly help... The point is what are so many skeptics doing here with nothing to add or contribute in a constructive fashion, it is like they have no life, no TV, no woman, or any hobby of their own, yet they find enjoyment, maybe superiority or just plain are rude people who have no social skills... You have to understand this forum is for us to discuss BF, sitings, happenings, tell of experiences and comradery in the fact we all share the same passion...

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/1541-about-my-wild-unproven-claims/page__st__180

Delicious! The BFF is a place for people to discuss their experiences and look for answers and share comradery. Skeptics with rudness and no social skills - and then people discussing alternatives to F&B Bigfoot need to step away from the bong! ROFL!

And the award for the most self-aware post in the entire thread goes to BobbyO...

It IS a really tough subject to talk about though with little or no basis on what to go on but that's not too dissimilar to BF on the whole so i guess i'll get over it one day..

[Guest]

I had read it the first time Gigantor. Too deep for me, but now I'm going to take a stab at it.

Just because they didn't observe something in the test, doesn't completely rule out the existence of extra dimensions from what I can see. This is kinda like disproving a negative here so bare with me. Plus they are testing for Black Holes not actually for Extra Dimensions for one thing. So they merely didn't find a certain result for micro black holes that they think should exist if extra dimensions exist. Right? They state "up to a mass of 3.5–4.5 TeV for a range of theoretical models that postulate extra dimensions.". Now just what does that mean in English? lol

To me it sounds like a lack of only certain specific evidence that rules out only certain (range) theoretical models that support extra dimensions. In other words, it doesn't say it rules out "ALL theoretical models ..." and in so doing, it seems to admit there are other models it doesn't rule out. Right? Okay, now I need a nap.

Edited April 7, 2011 by PragmaticTheorist