JanV Posted February 24, 2014 Author Posted February 24, 2014 One does not need language to perceive or think.No, but that was not my point.Language is necessary to create an abstract place to stand when contemplating/ identifying the past or future. It is necessary to an abstract theory of time.
MIB Posted February 24, 2014 Moderator Posted February 24, 2014 Question to ponder: what do you base your claim they don't have language on? Is it evidence or is it supposition? The difference is important. Our assumptions seem to lead us astray. (I don't need an answer, I'm just raising the question, the discussion is between you and you.) MIB
JanV Posted February 24, 2014 Author Posted February 24, 2014 I think they may have proto language. True language might be a bridge too far. But this is all supposition on my part. I would love to know they exist. Right now, however, that too is speculation on my part.
Guest Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Regarding a primates consept of time, Check out Ayumu the chimp at the Kyoto university. The chimps ability to memorize a string of numers in a fraction of a second, IMO is a result of having a different consept of time than her human counterpart
Guest DWA Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Moving with the seasons, following food supplies is common to all sorts of animals. I don't think this is a good argument for BF to have an advanced sense of time. I wouldn't say that birds or monarch butterflies have an "advanced sense of time" because they migrate at set times, nor bears because of their timing of den-digging, salmon-fishing, army-cutworm-moth binging, etc. either. Too many people ascribe qualities to this animal because of observed behaviors from which we don't impute those qualities to other animals. Not sure why that is.
Guest Posted February 24, 2014 Posted February 24, 2014 Not sure why that is. The anthropological perspective, that's why.
indiefoot Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 The behavior I mentioned is, IMO, along the lines of the "autism" theory that some have put forth. Maybe a variation of that.
Guest Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 ^^^Eeesh, I should spell check. Anyhoo I was trying to say, not having a linear concept of time seems to be an advantage, when it comes to performing certain tasks.
Guest DWA Posted February 25, 2014 Posted February 25, 2014 ^^^Like blowing off deadlines at work I SO PROMISED MYSELF I WOULD NOT POST THAT!
JanV Posted February 25, 2014 Author Posted February 25, 2014 The behavior I mentioned is, IMO, along the lines of the "autism" theory that some have put forth. Maybe a variation of that.Hi Indiefoot,Can you explain this a bit more? What is the autism theory?
indiefoot Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 Some folks have put forth that BF behavior sometimes is reminiscent of mild autism. The reports that have the BF behaving as if the witness was not there, absorbed in whatever they were doing. Seems unusual to me when we are talking about the master of his surroundings in nearly every way. I suggest that maybe they get distracted to the point of blocking other things out. There could be some use of psychoactive plants too, just a guess though.
Guest DWA Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 ^^^I am not sure I have ever seen a more blatant example of anthropomorphizing than "mild autism theory." So much of the way-out theorizing in this field is based on Humans Are Ultimate; All Evolves Toward Us Or Pays Strict Attention To Us. If "autism theory" has any legs, I have seen mainly autistic animals in my life...and so are most people I have seen.
indiefoot Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 (edited) I don't doubt that what has been lumped into autistic basket of behaviors is evident in any number of animals and people, what we are discussing here is possible vulnerabilities and I suggest that BF may have one more more as evidenced by their reported behavior. If there is a better way to describe what I have suggested than mild autism, I'm listening. I have made no secret of my conclusion based on my experiences and studies that BF will end up being classified as a member of the genus homo. Trying to predict their behavior has to keep that in mind, IMO. Edited February 26, 2014 by indiefoot
Guest DWA Posted February 26, 2014 Posted February 26, 2014 ^^^Here's my better way: Just like with most animals, sometimes you surprise them; sometimes they surprise you; sometimes neither of you is surprised; sometimes you aren't relevant and just get ignored.
indiefoot Posted February 27, 2014 Posted February 27, 2014 Well, you pretty much lose me with "Just like with most animals". If it were true we wouldn't be having this discussion. Of course that is just my opinion. As far as vulnerabilities my guess is you could get them strung out on alcohol. That has a lot of ways to backfire on you though. I have heard of gifting beer though.
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