N A W A C - Field Study Discussion (2)

[David NC]

This post here pretty much sums it up. definite accusation of illegal ammo. fairly well hidden accusation of illegal gun. and hunting a protected species. can't get the quote to work so is post #78

 

From a standpoint of omission, some of the ammunition used was prohibited.

 

There appears to have been mention of only one type of firearm so we really don't know if there were any others that weren't kosher.

 

As NAWAC by definition, defines UHS/BF as an "ape" which would be automatically protected under CITES ( .."They include some whole groups, such as primates".. ) *  there might be a federal issue with killing one.

 

We really don't know if a human (homo sapien) was harmed, or for that matter any other member of the homo genus, as the forensic evidence collected was allegedly botched.  In other words, they really don't know (forensically) what they shot.

 

Not saying they couldn't however, we don't know if all the (armed) participants could pass the form 4473-ATF and/or if the appropriate licences were held per state and federal regs.

 

* http://www.cites.org/eng/disc/species.php

 

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/47032-n-a-w-a-c-field-study-discussion-2/?p=836297

Edited July 22, 2014 by See-Te-Cah NC
To add quote and link for the member

[David NC]

 

Yuchi1 post #83  the shooter broke the law,OK, it's water under the bridge.

[Drew]

Put it this way?

If I gave you permission to go hunting on my ranch?

I would not allow another party to do the same without your knowledge of their location on the property and they yours, that's prudent.

Hunters safety certificates are fine and dandy, but there has to be a safe overall hunt plan as well. Unannounced walk ons are not safe.

 

If the area is a 10 acre plot, what limits would you place on discharging a fire arm on such a limited area?  If you take into account that people may be present on any bordering public land, and private land holders may or may not be privvy to the use of rifles during non-hunting seasons?  

Here are the two basic 10 acre landholdings that you might find in Oklahoma, would you say that they should not fire towards the edge if they are within 100 feet? 100 yards? what would be your reccomendation as a well schooled firearm handler/user?

 

[norseman]

Common sense tells me that a troupe of wood apes doesn't just live on 10 acres. But some of us seem to believe they do.......in fact one of your ridiculous assertions is they guard a widows place from trespassers.

If we are talking about a biological entity that is a large omnivore? They need hundreds of miles to roam and forage.

But if they are forest people I suppose they could just live off of granny.....she must do a lot of canning.

The idea that area x is 10 acres for me is absurd. Albeit 10 acres with cabins could be used as a base camp. But besides Branson's statement which could be true or untrue, you don't have much to go on.

I know this much, if the NAWAC was set up on a neighboring ranch next to my own I would know about it. And I wouldn't need to search out a land owners youtube video. I find that very suspect.

Lastly? FYI If you have permission to be somewhere? Your not trespassing!

Secondly, 00 buck is not illegal to own in OK. And wood apes receive no protection from the fish and game because they are not recognized......same goes for gnomes and pixies

If the area is a 10 acre plot, what limits would you place on discharging a fire arm on such a limited area? If you take into account that people may be present on any bordering public land, and private land holders may or may not be privvy to the use of rifles during non-hunting seasons?
Here are the two basic 10 acre landholdings that you might find in Oklahoma, would you say that they should not fire towards the edge if they are within 100 feet? 100 yards? what would be your reccomendation as a well schooled firearm handler/user?

**Image Removed**

Depends entirely on the topography Drew. I remember Brian stating there is a very steep hill behind the cabins. Natural backstops are ok to use in natural settings such as remote hunting leases. Or, people build back stops all the time in the case of target shooting.

But you still don't want someone walking into your range unannounced. Or in this case private property.

Edited July 22, 2014 by See-Te-Cah NC
To remove previously-posted image

[Drew]

Regarding the Buck shot, Oklahoma is a Slug Only state.

 

That means you can't use any shot larger than BB's on any wildlife.

 

However, it says Wild Hogs are not considered wildlife.

 

I wouldn't go walking around Oklahoma with Buckshot, unless I was hunting wild pigs.

 

It goes on to say that the taking of Feral Hogs on private land is not restricted by shot size.

However on public land, you have to follow the restrictions of the accompanying game season.

 

http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/laws_regs/hunt1415.pdf

Edited July 22, 2014 by Drew

[norseman]

But it's legal to possess and shoot for self defense. Or hunting myths. Or target practice.

Edited July 22, 2014 by norseman

[Wheellug]

Thought buckshot was cleared for Hog use in '07 or so..   

[Drew]

On private land from my interpretation.

 

Go to page 35 of the game regulations I linked to

Edited July 22, 2014 by Drew

[Drew]

But you still don't want someone walking into your range unannounced. Or in this case private property.

 

I'm not talking about people on your property, what about people off your property.  If you were operating on 10 Acres, what would be your basic rundown of your Firearm Discipline Protocol?

[norseman]

But I am! It's dangerous.

And as I stated it depends entirely on topography, or expense.

Indoor shooting ranges are mere feet in length, outdoor ranges can be much smaller than 10 acres.

Bottom line? Lead doesn't leave the property.

[Cotter]

If the area is a 10 acre plot, what limits would you place on discharging a fire arm on such a limited area?  If you take into account that people may be present on any bordering public land, and private land holders may or may not be privvy to the use of rifles during non-hunting seasons?  

Here are the two basic 10 acre landholdings that you might find in Oklahoma, would you say that they should not fire towards the edge if they are within 100 feet? 100 yards? what would be your reccomendation as a well schooled firearm handler/user?

 

*pic omitted*

 

Drew - you seem to know a lot about hunting, heck even perhaps at times claimed to be a hunter.

 

Let me ask you this.  Are you aware there are plots of land that are open to public hunting?   Are you aware that multiple hunters can be present in the same 10 acre (or less) plot of these public hunting lands unknown to each other?

 

Are you also aware there is no law in ANY jurisdiction that restricts the amount of hunters per acre?

 

You are dreaming up some sort of problem with discharging firearms in a 'pulled from the clouds' area.

 

If you have a real problem with this, you best get a-writing your local DNR so they can change the laws.

 

It is not uncommon during deer season to sneak out on public land before dark, set up, only to find when the sun rises some other yahoo has done the same thing 50 yards away.

 

You are beating a non-issue to death.  That is where TAB-K comes in - from a strictly hunting standpoint.

 

Moving on.  Addressing this "pointing the gun at a 'suspected' woodape prior to ID.  That is not what a hunter does.  That is what LEO and military do.  NAWAC isn't "hunting" these things, they are attempting to acquire a specimen on private property using military tactics.  I would think that someone could discern the difference in LEO/military training and what is taught for sportsmen.

 

Regarding the 'illegal' ammo - 00 buck isn't legal for a game animal.  Well, how about varmints?  Left that one out, eh?  How about just having it in your gun on private property?

 

The amount of non-issues being beaten to death on but an iota of the actual goings on is astounding.

 

I think some of the other posters have ID'd the true intent of those types of discussions quite well.

 

(For the record I am indeed a State Certified Hunter's Education Instructor - however, do not take any of my comments as legal advice - call your local DNR warden - that's what they get paid for).

[norseman]

Good post Cotter. And yes on public everyone has the right to be there.

Edited July 22, 2014 by norseman

[Guest DWA]

Plussed, but particularly:

 

 

Moving on.  Addressing this "pointing the gun at a 'suspected' woodape prior to ID.  That is not what a hunter does.  That is what LEO and military do.  NAWAC isn't "hunting" these things, they are attempting to acquire a specimen on private property using military tactics.  I would think that someone could discern the difference in LEO/military training and what is taught for sportsmen.

 

Correct; particularly the "rules of engagement" aspect that acknowledges that that could be one of ours, albeit one in a costume, and don't discharge until ID as the target intended is undeniably positive.  (Hint:  bushmeat hunters in Africa are not so constrained.  Why we don't have that specimen yet, or at least one of the major reasons.)

 

Regarding the 'illegal' ammo - 00 buck isn't legal for a game animal.  Well, how about varmints?  Left that one out, eh?  How about just having it in your gun on private property?

 

How about for an animal the world denies is real?  Don't think the DNR posts those.

 

The amount of non-issues being beaten to death on but an iota of the actual goings on is astounding.

 

To name only one reason bipto's departure seemed eminently understandable to me.

 

I think some of the other posters have ID'd the true intent of those types of discussions quite well.

 

OHyeah.

 

[Painthorse]

@ Cotter, so very true! Wish I had a plus left for you!

[Drew]

Drew - you seem to know a lot about hunting, heck even perhaps at times claimed to be a hunter.

 

Let me ask you this.  Are you aware there are plots of land that are open to public hunting?   Are you aware that multiple hunters can be present in the same 10 acre (or less) plot of these public hunting lands unknown to each other?

 

Yes. Are you aware of any 

 

Are you also aware there is no law in ANY jurisdiction that restricts the amount of hunters per acre?

 

Most hunting leases are managed for 1 hunter/50 acres.  Public land of course is 1st come 1st serve, typically more pressure toward automobile access points.

 

You are dreaming up some sort of problem with discharging firearms in a 'pulled from the clouds' area.

 

If you have a real problem with this, you best get a-writing your local DNR so they can change the laws.

 

I'm not dreaming up anything, It doesn't matter the size of the allottment, if someone next door gets hurt you are looking at Reckless Endangerment.

 

It is not uncommon during deer season to sneak out on public land before dark, set up, only to find when the sun rises some other yahoo has done the same thing 50 yards away.

 

This is irrelevant to a discussion regarding private land.  

 

You are beating a non-issue to death.  That is where TAB-K comes in - from a strictly hunting standpoint.

 

Moving on.  Addressing this "pointing the gun at a 'suspected' woodape prior to ID.  That is not what a hunter does.  That is what LEO and military do.  NAWAC isn't "hunting" these things, they are attempting to acquire a specimen on private property using military tactics.  I would think that someone could discern the difference in LEO/military training and what is taught for sportsmen.

 

Regarding the 'illegal' ammo - 00 buck isn't legal for a game animal.  Well, how about varmints?  Left that one out, eh?  How about just having it in your gun on private property?

 

Buckshot is legal for Hogs in Oklahoma, on Private land.

 

The amount of non-issues being beaten to death on but an iota of the actual goings on is astounding.

 

I think some of the other posters have ID'd the true intent of those types of discussions quite well.

 

(For the record I am indeed a State Certified Hunter's Education Instructor - however, do not take any of my comments as legal advice - call your local DNR warden - that's what they get paid for).