the parkie Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I think that is the key LCB, that you are not "just restating what I have read" - you are stating what you have read and then further speculating wildly and pushing the boundaries of reasonability.
WSA Posted January 30, 2015 Posted January 30, 2015 I carry no brief for or against this hypothesis, but would only note: 1. Force applied to a undergroud strata produces vibration, which would produce sound waves above ground. If you've ever stood above and near an underground detonation you'd know how axiomatic this statement is. Often these are felt through the legs if one is standing on the ground. 2. The number of mammals (us included) who either seek shelter, hibernate, burrow, live or forage in underground caves/caverns/dens/tunnels is a list way too long to give here. Why would a mammalian BF be any different?
SWWASAS Posted January 30, 2015 BFF Patron Posted January 30, 2015 (edited) Earth is very sound proof. Sound does not penetrate through it, unless it's massive like an earthquake or a nuke. Soil can basically be considered a liquid for sound carrying and earthquake purposes. Earth fill liquefies during earthquakes and acts much like jello. Certainly debris like rock inclusions and organic matter would somewhat muffle sound. But sound can carry for great distances through liquid. But bedrock is a different story. Sound would travel there better than in air. Unless it was a lava tube I do not know how BF could tunnel under bedrock without mining tools. But in the SW in particular, which is not particularly BF country, many ancient tunnel systems, created by humans, some of whom little is known about, do exist. Perhaps BF is an opportunist and has found previously created tunnel systems and is presently using them. Lately I have been seeking old mines to see if they might have BF squatters living in them. I saw a video about ancient copper mines in Michigan so man is very into tunneling. Edited January 30, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT
Guest thermalman Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I've worked with soils all my life. Anyone in this thread could be buried 18" under the earth's surface, and unless there is an opening of sorts to the surface, NOBODY is going to hear the pounding or screaming of the buried person. I guarantee that. Humans, or BF for that matter, cannot exhibit enough noise or vibration underground for humans to hear or feel. The earth's soils act as a enormous baffling effect against that. If the cavern or tunnel is big enough for the size of a BF to fit in, it has to be deep and through rock in order to prevent any type of surface cave in. Just look around at the underground water mains in cities, buried 7-8 ft. deep, that cave in or become sink holes. Edited January 31, 2015 by thermalman
SWWASAS Posted January 31, 2015 BFF Patron Posted January 31, 2015 I've worked with soils all my life. Anyone in this thread could be buried 18" under the earth's surface, and unless there is an opening of sorts to the surface, NOBODY is going to hear the pounding or screaming of the buried person. I guarantee that. Humans, or BF for that matter, cannot exhibit enough noise or vibration underground for humans to hear or feel. The earth's soils act as a enormous baffling effect against that. If the cavern or tunnel is big enough for the size of a BF to fit in, it has to be deep and through rock in order to prevent any type of surface cave in. Just look around at the underground water mains in cities, buried 7-8 ft. deep, that cave in or become sink holes. You know I really do not buy the BF under the ground pounding and screaming aspect of this thread because it is so unlike BF to reveal his presence when it is not caught in the open. But I would not wager money on an experiment to see if something 18 inches below any soil surface would not be heard or felt at the surface. A tree falling or a rock hitting the ground can be felt in your feet from many feet away. You must not have fallen many trees.
Catmandoo Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 There are statements in this thread that may paraphrase the activities of Mr. Wallace and daughter Lori. I am not sure. I have not read the book and will not. The 'underground tunnel/den' comments bother me: "....the most demonstrative one that usually sounded off could be seen through a very small hole that it apparently created......" and ".....it could be heard for several hundred yards....". The Sasquatch, that is expert at hiding, creates a 'peep hole' in it's underground den. I should go there and find the 'peep hole'. First order of business would be to urinate into the 'peep ( puts the 'pee' in peep ) hole and wait for a response. The noise could be heard for several hundred yards. Amazing. Bearing and please. The geology of Washington State is chaotic; volcanic eruptions with lava and lahar flows, caldera collapses, uplifting with many fault lines. I pulled out my geology map* and looked the area over. The area is broken up with many fault lines. Both visible and concealed. Some pass through the area and continue out into Puget Sound. There are several thrust faults. Lots of water to lubricate the fault lines. When I see the phrase 'ground thunder', I think of fault slippage. Years ago, I had a night that had thumping all night. I did not know that there was an active lode claim in the area. I looked up my BLM mineral claims for Washington State and the area that Wallace roamed around. Lots of closed claims, 100+ and less than 10% active claims. Never enter a mine regardless of whether or not it is active or closed. Disturbing anything on an active claim is in violation of the General Mining Act of 1872 and it would be a Federal offense. Any mine is dangerous. If it is tunneled in a round type of bore, it has structural integrity. Squarish/rectangular bore jobs are less strong. An abandoned mine has not been maintained and will cave in. SWWASAS....do not go into the mines. Also, it may not be possible to see if there have been any cave-ins further inside the mine. The earth structure above a collapsed mine may not telegraph the damage to the surface. Never walk on the terrain above a mine. SWWASAS, one sure fire way to check an abandoned mine for big hairy squatters is to inspect the area around the opening for torn up back packs and broken femur bones that have had the marrow sucked out. Guaranteed. the Cat * Geologic Map of Washington, Northwest Quadrant, 2002 Washington Division of Geology and Earth Resources Geologic Map GM-50, sheet 1 Washington State Dept. of Natural Resources 1
Faenor Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 The underground bigfoot is a silly idea. Why would a bipedal primate that through evolution gained prodigious height also be subterranean in any capacity? A short squat bigfoot like a dwarf from fantasy with large fore-claws might make sense to be banging around in underground caverns.
gigantor Posted January 31, 2015 Admin Posted January 31, 2015 I agree with Catmandoo. Don't go inside the cave, place a trail cam aimed at the entrance instead.
the parkie Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I'm sure most people are open to the idea that sasquatches could utilise natural caverns and caves for protection and shelter, but many aspects of the Adam / Lori scenario described above just seem too far fetched. I haven't read Adam's book but an Internet search reveals that the details may be described in a Binnall Of America podcast, which may be worth a listen. I've never listened to any of these, does anyone have an opinion on them or could comment on their perceived reputation? I would rather wait and hear Dr Sykes description of what happened, than speculate further on others' version of events that already sound far fetched. Edited January 31, 2015 by the parkie
Lake County Bigfooot Posted January 31, 2015 Author Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Parkie, I feel that I have more or less stated what the story line in Adam's book presented without exaggerating the facts. The story of hearing them from several hundred yards went as follows. They placed some candy outside the lair of the one demonstrative creature, then they acted like they were leaving and met on a road a fair distance away, which was my several 100 yards statement, and waited to see if the creature would come out and claim the prize, to their surprise it threw a fit of rage pounding like a wildman, pardon the pun. To which Sykes replied "Come out you ******* this is your last chance", and they fell about laughing..They heard the creature according to the account, I have no explanation as to how the sound is traveling, only that it did according to their account. Trust me it as hard for me to believe as it is for you, and I would like an explanation myself, my acceptance of the story is based on Adams legitimacy in general, and follow up stuff I researched which included a little documentary online about Lori Simmons which also discussed this behavior. Edited January 31, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot
SWWASAS Posted January 31, 2015 BFF Patron Posted January 31, 2015 Cat you need not worry about me going in a mine. I am claustrophobic and recognize the dangers. But BF good as he is cannot frequent an area without leaving sign and moving around. Gigantors suggestion is good for a hidden camera. An ideal location would be a mine or lava tube with suspected activity and set up a surveillance from some ridgeline in the area. I have a good spotting scope and telephoto equipment so do not need to be close, just stealthy when I approach.
Guest thermalman Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) You know I really do not buy the BF under the ground pounding and screaming aspect of this thread because it is so unlike BF to reveal his presence when it is not caught in the open. But I would not wager money on an experiment to see if something 18 inches below any soil surface would not be heard or felt at the surface. A tree falling or a rock hitting the ground can be felt in your feet from many feet away. You must not have fallen many trees. I would somewhat concur. It would have to be an enormous rock or tree just to shake the compacted soil surface, not just a large animal underground. I have felt ground vibration from the steel track of a large moving bulldozer nearby on heavily compacted ground, and I've heard and seen the vibratory clinking of glassware each time a train passed nearby our home. Having said that, try jumping up and down on a compacted dirt, rock or sand pile (for the underground effect) and see how much vibration or sound will evolve from it. Edited January 31, 2015 by thermalman
Lake County Bigfooot Posted January 31, 2015 Author Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Just read the account for yourselves, this way I don't have to play middle man, sorry my Kindle app was on the fritz or I would have simply done this sooner and I guess I forgot it was a scarf...the creature was attached to Lori. "One particularly poignant, and amusing, moment was when we tried to deceive the Big Guy, to see if we could draw him out of his lair and photograph him. We went up to the area where he lived, went about our business gathering samples, and on leaving, had Lori drop a scarf on the ground “accidentallyâ€. We then proceeded to a pre-scheduled spot on the road, high above the area, where we waited with a camera. The creature was not fooled though, and began banging vigorously while we were on the road.“The ******* knows exactly where we are!†I joked with Bryan, who also shook his head and laughed! “This is your last bloody chance, you had better **** well come out!†he shouted, We all fell about laughing. He was very bright indeed, and was clearly not going to be fooled or tricked into an appearance on camera!" Here is some more and this predates the above and provides background "If it is at all possible , the story now gets stranger. Fortunately it is all true, and was witnessed by Professor Sykes. After I got back in February, Professor Sykes gave me a call. He said that he was going to be in the USA, and was working with someone called Rhett in getting samples from potential Sasquatch for testing. He asked if he could meet Lori. Lori was delighted to accept, and volunteered to take Professor Sykes and Rhett up to the location. It was on that day that Professor Sykes was to have his own Sasquatch experience. Lori adopted the same methodology as she always does when approaching her area. She called out on approach, and the “Big Guy†responded, with his familiar knocking in response to Lori. Lori recounted how shocked Bryan was by his encounter, just like I had been. To quote from him: “I definitely heard knocking, it was subterranean, and was not caused by Lori.†More yet of Adam's first experience "After we pitched our tents, Lori resolved to take me up to the area where she had her encounter with what she referred to as her ‘Big Guy’. We approached a fir tree, and Lori showed me where she had left apples for the creature , and how it had taken some. She took clear “before†and “after†pictures on her camera, so she was able to record any movement, and be sure of what, if anything, had been taken. After she had explained the background , she began calling out to the creature in the following manner: “Hello, are you there?†Her tone and manner were, in some ways, like a mother would speak to a small child: upbeat, positive, and coaxing, all at the same time. To my amazement, I began to hear a knocking sound in response to her voice! Lori spoke in an animated manner, “Oh,†she said in delight, “You are here!†and straight back came a “boom boom†thudding sound. I watched Lori’s feet ; she did not make the sound, it was quite clear . I also had the presence to check around the area, to see if there could be anyone hiding, and responding to these sounds. There wasn’t, but strangely, though, the ground did, underneath, feel hollow, and spongy I thought. I was amazed by this interaction, and was forced to draw the conclusion that whatever Lori was communicating with, was directly underground, by the tree, and that she had not faked it herself." Davies, Adam (2015-01-02). Manbeasts: A Personal Investigation (Kindle Locations 2518-2522). . Kindle Edition. Edited January 31, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot 1
Lake County Bigfooot Posted January 31, 2015 Author Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I am trying to pin down the part where they hear it approaching the area and the hair.. "The next morning, we set off for the research area. As we left Bryan’s vehicle, he gave me instructions on how to work his car. “It is important you remember these instructions,†said Bryan, “In case anything should happen to me,†he added, as he strapped on his utility belt, which carried a large hunting knife. “I will not be leaving you here ,†I said. I reasoned that the Big Guy would not go far if it did attack, maybe a charge in its own area. If it did, then I also had a knife, but only for self-defence if I had to use it. I do not want to harm, nor do I advocate harming, these creatures in any way. Of course, it could easily kill us if it wanted to. Bryan was, of course, meticulous, recording and documenting everything. I wanted to get my camera trap first, which I had left at the campsite, positioned facing some apples in a large glass jar. It was morning, and I hoped that it would be asleep. We carried our equipment down the path, and as we approached, it started knocking. “Damn!†I said, “The bloody thing is awake!†It was waiting for us. We walked past the area where it lived, as quickly as we could, and went to get my camera trap. On approach, the apples in the jar seemed untouched (there were no images on the camera trap when I checked it later). We then returned to the tree , and began to remove the specimen jars and chocolate wrappers. Bryan provided a commentary. The chocolate was gone. We also removed the sweets (in a jar) which had been left by Rhett and Lori some weeks earlier, which were untouched. I wanted to just get the samples and go, wondering if I would become the new “chocolate†to replace those empty wrappers the creature had left! Despite the pressure we were under, we did continue our methodical approach, and Bryan continued to record everything as we went. As we approached the hair trap closest to the tree, from where the predominance of its knocks emanated, we could clearly see that the trap had retained a long hair. We were delighted! Davies, Adam (2015-01-02). Manbeasts: A Personal Investigation (Kindle Locations 2561-2569). . Kindle Edition. The descriptions of the pounding that could be heard also came from the documentary listed below.... Chew on this stuff and decide for yourselves, I am not trying to sell anyone on this, only that I think it is relative to research that Sykes had this level of interactions directly with the creature, and I am sure that his book will reflect that in some fashion. Edited January 31, 2015 by Lake County Bigfooot 1
the parkie Posted January 31, 2015 Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) Thanks for all the info LCB, much appreciated. I will watch the documentary you have inserted. Certainly intriguing, but reading through Adam's telling of the events, no-one actually saw a creature nor heard any vocalisations it seems, other than hearing some mysterious knocks which, presumably, Lori has communicated to them was being made by a creature she has previously encountered directly. So neither Adam nor Sykes has actually seen or heard a Sasquatch. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if the entire incident is played down somewhat if included in Dr Sykes' own book, as, based on what you have provided, he has not actually had a direct experience, but encountered anomalous knocking which he has been informed originates from a Sasquatch. If he did not include the hair found in his project, then presumably he doubted it was from one. I understand that Adam and Lori have split. It would be curious to see if Adam's version of events changes or he expresses doubts about them if their relationship ever sours in the future. Cynical I know, but these things often happen. Edited January 31, 2015 by the parkie
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