Collection Of Voucher Specimens

[Guest Divergent1]

Hey, start reading my posts any time you want to, um, start.  Where did that intestinal blockage come from?

 

There is nothing BUT funny about all the people who think their "familiarity" with these critters makes them taxonomists.  When they're confirmed I might start paying more attention to what people "know."

Or don't know as the case may be.

[norseman]

Are Leprechauns human? I wonder.........hmmmmm.

Because if I shoot a 12" magical humanoid dressed in green that hides a pot of hold under a rainbow? I might go to jail........hmmmmm.

Even though I have proven to the world that Leprechauns are real!!!????? What a crock!!!

Well........ I'll just rely on these tiny foot casts and some grainy photos.....people will have to believe me then!!

"The so called experts of myths have nothing to gain from a myth becoming reality. The myth dragged kicking and screaming from the shadows until it's under the bright light of science, then the so called experts fade away to obscurity." - Me

[southernyahoo]

Not saying it will be, but you cannot put the cart in front of the horse!

 

I'm not, but I do try to look down the road in front of the horse to spot the pitfalls and point them out. Contemplating them, and working ways around them is called foresight.

[Branco]

Are Leprechauns human? I wonder.........hmmmmm.

Because if I shoot a 12" magical humanoid dressed in green that hides a pot of hold under a rainbow? I might go to jail........hmmmmm.

Even though I have proven to the world that Leprechauns are real!!!????? What a crock!!!

Well........ I'll just rely on these tiny foot casts and some grainy photos.....people will have to believe me then!!

"The so called experts of myths have nothing to gain from a myth becoming reality. The myth dragged kicking and screaming from the shadows until it's under the bright light of science, then the so called experts fade away to obscurity." - Me

Man, I wish I knew Norse code. Surely means something.

[Drew]

Are Leprechauns human? I wonder.........hmmmmm.

Because if I shoot a 12" magical humanoid dressed in green that hides a pot of hold under a rainbow? I might go to jail........hmmmmm.

Even though I have proven to the world that Leprechauns are real!!!????? What a crock!!!

Well........ I'll just rely on these tiny foot casts and some grainy photos.....people will have to believe me then!!

"The so called experts of myths have nothing to gain from a myth becoming reality. The myth dragged kicking and screaming from the shadows until it's under the bright light of science, then the so called experts fade away to obscurity." - Me

 

You sound like you should be absolutely NOT allowed to be carrying a gun and shooting at Bipedal creatures in the woods.

 

If I hear that you are out there doing it, I am going to call law enforcement.  

 

This is sick.

[norseman]

Call Drew, tell em Iam hunting Leprachauns.......

[Guest Divergent1]

Being new to Alabama, I just couldn't resist this you tube video in light of the conversation:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxGrGea1RgY

 

And here is the "Gimme Da Gold" remix:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk67EhKhR4M

Edited March 20, 2015 by Divergent1

[MarkGlasgow]

It's the only way Norse.

Those pesky liberal Habituators won't share so we'll have to bag and tag.

[Guest DWA]

Well, although I would understand why habituators wouldn't want a bunch of scientists crawling all over their interaction...point taken.

[southernyahoo]

As close as Thals were to us? They are a different species. Can you point to a modern human anywhere on the planet that resembles Patty? No.

For me at this point? I would bet my bottom dollar that Sasquatch does not belong to the Genus Homo. If we look at the Homo Erectus hand axe? What? At least 2 million years old? And the fact that we have no evidence of Sasquatch stone tool manufacture?

I think something more along the lines of Giganto or other ape species is much much more likely.

.

 

I can point to alot of people that think patty is a guy in a suit, which isn't so far from a hirsuted guy.

 

You have to remember that if scientists aren't hunting sasquatch, they also wouldn't attribute any tool to them. There has been a video where a supposed squatch was obviously pounding nuts with a rock.

 

You also have to concede that the human comes before the tool.

 

Compare Meldrum's mid tarsal break which is a ape like quality to a Thal foot.

http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/170954/enlarge

The Thal foot has an arch the same as ours. Your proving my point for me.

 

 

 

Not all BF tracks lack an arch. Secondly there is an interesting video where the subjects foot can be seen bending just behind the toes where ours do.

 

Humans also have fallen arches sometimes.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Human+feet+fallen+arches&gbv=2&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ei=s8kMVYe4Kc6MyATZsIKwBA&ved=0CBQQsAQ&tbm=isch

Edited March 21, 2015 by southernyahoo

[Guest]

You have to remember that if scientists aren't hunting sasquatch, they also wouldn't attribute any tool to them. There has been a video where a supposed squatch was obviously pounding nuts with a rock.

 

Yes, you get some circular logic coming out of that, find a digging stick, an anvil used for freshwater mussel or hickory nuts, it must be homo sapiens because only homo sapiens uses tools. Therefore there are no odd things to explain in the woods. Therefore there is nothing else to look for. 

[Airdale]

It doesn’t require one be a conspiracy theorist to be certain that this creature’s existence is known, to some degree, across a broad swath of state and federal agencies whose purview encompasses any aspect of wildlife and/or land management. Since the ending decades of the nineteenth century there have been ever increasing numbers of government employees, tens if not hundreds of thousands, whose job descriptions include spending a great deal of time in the outdoors and being observant. If even a small percentage of these folks have had an encounter it still amounts to a substantial number, many who have climbed the ladder to the upper echelons of their respective agencies, bureaus, departments, etc. For my money, it requires a much larger suspension of belief to think they don’t know than to acknowledge that they must.

 

That being said, to my mind the primary responsibility rests with the government(s) to publically disclose that we have a large, powerful, intelligent and, sometimes dangerous and aggressive population of primates with a range covering much of the wild and not so wild areas of the continent. The buck may stop there, but it passes through a lot of other hands on the way. On one side of this particular debate, we have folks like Norse, who has always been forthright in his opinion on the issue and never shown himself to be anything but a true gentleman in my association with him. There is the N.A.W.A.C. that has dedicated several years, thousands of man hours and a lot of their own financial resources in achieving their stated goal of collecting a type specimen.

 

There are also numerous other organized groups engaged in collecting sufficient evidence to prove existence short of collecting a type specimen, i.e. B.F.R.O. and smaller regional groups. Many individuals or small groups also seek evidence, not always with the goal of proving existence and not always willing to share what they have. Within this latter group I would include those such as Branco mentioned with legitimate habituation situations but who have satisfied their own curiosity and aren’t concerned with sharing .

 

Human curiosity being what it is, someone is going to prove that Sasquatch exist sooner or later, one way or the other. Maybe, if some of the folks who have established close rapport with local clans organize to collect and share their best evidence with academia and the public, they may generate sufficient interest to prompt scientific investigation without a type specimen. That is of course assuming that the people involved are willing to obtain DNA samples along with clear, unambiguous photographic and video evidence of the source of the samples, i.e. video of subject eating apple and discarding core, then sample being obtained from core.

 

Much time and thought has gone into painting bleak scenarios for Norse’ future should he be successful in his goal, subtly and not so subtly slighting his prowess as an outdoorsman and hunter and, most egregious, hinting that he and others sharing the same philosophy are little more than blood thirsty seekers of fame and fortune. I believe each of you is sincere in the desire to avoid deliberately taking the life of a Sasquatch in order to prove their existence. Would it not be more productive therefore to channel your efforts towards the kind of organized cooperation I’ve outlined above? It would take someone like Branco, who has earned widespread respect and credibility in the community and has the connections he mentioned, to spearhead the program. I suspect that Norse and others with his outlook would respect such a positive effort whether or not they were sanguine about its success.

[norseman]

SY;

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/weird-wide-web/ape-feet-found-1-13-people

Under 10 % of humans have feet as flexible as an ape. Neanderthals had the same longitudinal arch as modern humans. You would have to show that over 90 % of Sasquatch have the same foot as us.

Why is a hoaxed suit and a hairy human one and the same?

Chimps use tools like a rock to crush a nut and they belong to the genus Pan...... Not Homo. So no........tools did in fact come before Humans. And for that matter Otters use rocks to break clam shells and crows drop acorns in front of cars. Tool manufacture and not use is uniquely human.

Edited March 21, 2015 by norseman

[norseman]

It doesn’t require one be a conspiracy theorist to be certain that this creature’s existence is known, to some degree, across a broad swath of state and federal agencies whose purview encompasses any aspect of wildlife and/or land management. Since the ending decades of the nineteenth century there have been ever increasing numbers of government employees, tens if not hundreds of thousands, whose job descriptions include spending a great deal of time in the outdoors and being observant. If even a small percentage of these folks have had an encounter it still amounts to a substantial number, many who have climbed the ladder to the upper echelons of their respective agencies, bureaus, departments, etc. For my money, it requires a much larger suspension of belief to think they don’t know than to acknowledge that they must.

 

That being said, to my mind the primary responsibility rests with the government(s) to publically disclose that we have a large, powerful, intelligent and, sometimes dangerous and aggressive population of primates with a range covering much of the wild and not so wild areas of the continent. The buck may stop there, but it passes through a lot of other hands on the way. On one side of this particular debate, we have folks like Norse, who has always been forthright in his opinion on the issue and never shown himself to be anything but a true gentleman in my association with him. There is the N.A.W.A.C. that has dedicated several years, thousands of man hours and a lot of their own financial resources in achieving their stated goal of collecting a type specimen.

 

There are also numerous other organized groups engaged in collecting sufficient evidence to prove existence short of collecting a type specimen, i.e. B.F.R.O. and smaller regional groups. Many individuals or small groups also seek evidence, not always with the goal of proving existence and not always willing to share what they have. Within this latter group I would include those such as Branco mentioned with legitimate habituation situations but who have satisfied their own curiosity and aren’t concerned with sharing .

 

Human curiosity being what it is, someone is going to prove that Sasquatch exist sooner or later, one way or the other. Maybe, if some of the folks who have established close rapport with local clans organize to collect and share their best evidence with academia and the public, they may generate sufficient interest to prompt scientific investigation without a type specimen. That is of course assuming that the people involved are willing to obtain DNA samples along with clear, unambiguous photographic and video evidence of the source of the samples, i.e. video of subject eating apple and discarding core, then sample being obtained from core.

 

Much time and thought has gone into painting bleak scenarios for Norse’ future should he be successful in his goal, subtly and not so subtly slighting his prowess as an outdoorsman and hunter and, most egregious, hinting that he and others sharing the same philosophy are little more than blood thirsty seekers of fame and fortune. I believe each of you is sincere in the desire to avoid deliberately taking the life of a Sasquatch in order to prove their existence. Would it not be more productive therefore to channel your efforts towards the kind of organized cooperation I’ve outlined above? It would take someone like Branco, who has earned widespread respect and credibility in the community and has the connections he mentioned, to spearhead the program. I suspect that Norse and others with his outlook would respect such a positive effort whether or not they were sanguine about its success.

Thank you for your kind words.

Look I'm a no body in terms of this field. I don't go to conferences and I don't have leading researchers on speed dial. I'm just an average joe that goes out on my own dime when job and family don't get in the way to look. I have been blessed with being raised in a remote part of Washington that has historical had lots of sightings and most notably the bossburg tracks.

I'm utterly frustrated with the "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" mentality that unfortunately is the majority in this field. They are gonna crack this thing wide open.........they just need another bag of dental resin! Or worse, we know they exists and don't care if they are proven. Thank goodness the polio vaccine wasn't handled the same way. No body stops and listens to what science is asking from each of us.

I started Project Grendel (with lots of help) because if enough of us average joes got together who concentrated on cutting through the bull? We might get lucky and solve this thing in our lifetime. I can shoot a rifle very well and can pack stock in the mountains......those are my strengths, along with others. For others it's crunching data and reading reports. We ping ideas and experiences off of each other and we never get into debates about existence or pro kill, it's great. We don't take ourselves super seriously and we don't hide information. I'll tell anyone my methods I've tried as well as those of other members.

So secret sauce, no competition, no egos, let's just get it done and over with ASAP. Nobody needs to be the "guy", and we just want to settle the mystery once and for all.

If Branco can get a saliva sample by simply handing over a piece of fruit? Awesome! I don't care how it happens, just so it happens. But 50 years ago a Sasquatch was covered by a rifle as it walked down a creek bed. The man chose not to shoot, and his buddies film was going to crack it wide open. But science scoffed at it, the logging continued and here it is 50 years later. Not a real animal but a myth like a Leprechaun. I find the whole situation quite sad really.

I also find it sad to hear the explanations for why its impossible to take a specimen. Everything from black helicopters to mental telepathy. I hear lots of people talking about the creatures attributes and abilities, when we have not even scratched the surface.

Anyhow, I'm not saying this is the only way, but easily it's the quickest way to prove it exists.

[Guest DWA]

I don't want one killed.  I don't want a lion killed either, or an elephant, or a pig.  And I love bacon.  Whoops.

 

Fact is:  we're human, the primate that kills, the primate that expands its niche by taking away other species' niches...and the primate that knows that what nature drives us to do is wrong, on several levels, for us as a species in the long run, not for a planet that will make it through the next five billion or so years just fine, with or without us.  Nature doesn't care; it keeps producing what works, and what works for us is what will do us in when it stops working...and nature will fill our niche with something else.

 

My stake in this is utterly selfish.  I want to know.  I want to see one that hasn't been poisoned in my mind from the start by the societal reaction to it.  I know Patty's genuine; but that wasn't much of a look.  I've seen film of kouprey, lots of them, an animal that may be gone now and may not...and it's too far a look, too brief, to satisfy me.  One sequence of a running herd looks just like a cave painting...for a second or two, and end of clip.  I want more than that, and I want to satisfy my curiosity as well about an animal that I am sure exists, but I'm not getting the look I want to get.

 

And a carcass is not the look I want to get.  But the societal attitude toward this is driving that conclusion.  We have people saying they orb and are four-dimensional and that one may be typing these words, just using my mind and fingers.  We have people saying they're people who shunned technology, as if people ever have, ever.  We have people saying they bury their dead.  We have people saying they feed them out the back door, their curiosity is satisfied and they could care less about the rest of us.  And having a selfish desire myself, I get that.  If they are doing that...what do they owe a society that considers them crazy?  The right to trample their property and spoil the result of their faith and patience to allay its stupidity?  I'd think not, especially were I one of them.

 

And this - the greatest sin of all - we have 'scientists' who have, at their fingertips, the work of other scientists actually practicing science, who say these animals are real.  And they choose to laugh.  The blood of the voucher specimen is on their hands.

 

I just want to know, however it happens; and I know we're the species that kills, with or without reason and we haven't invented all the reasons yet, and that isn't going to change with this animal.  It's not.  I'd want it to and hope it does.  But it's not.

 

If you're hunting...good luck.  I mean that.

Edited March 21, 2015 by DWA