Why Would Denialist Waste Their Time On This Or Any Other Bf Website?

[Guest DWA]

I'd settle for this "new way":  Scientists who are supposed to be, you know, curious, actually finally wondering why people with clearly-relevant qualifications have written books about this, one of them making the very strong case that this is a scientific discovery that has already been made, just most of the community doesn't know it yet.  And then maybe starting to talk to each other about why that might be.

 

I'd settle for that.  To me, trying to discredit the evidence without looking at it is no better than jumping to bury-their-dead and saucer-people as explanations for why "no one ever sees them" when loads of people in fact say they have.

[Guest]

Nah, the 'skeptics' in this field add nothing and derail the discussion rather than enhancing it.  They aren't needed to keep anyone honest; their basic premise is dishonesty embodied.

Ahh, so an echo chamber is what you seek.

[kitakaze]

Is the answer because they secretly believe that BF is possible? Or they actually want and hope BF is real?

I'm having trouble understanding why someone would waste their time with all this BF stuff if they truly believe there is no possibility BF exists. I don't believe in fairies and see no reason to participate in forums about the same.

What gives?

MNSkeptic

 

From the last time you asked...

 

Posted 09 October 2014 - 05:39 AM

POPULAR

MNskeptic, on 03 Oct 2014 - 10:43 AM, said:

Look, part of me is skeptical about the big guy. I have to be for the sake of my sanity, not having seen the creature myself. Call me a Doubting Thomas. However, the greater part of me believes that something is out there, after considering the evidence that exists. While there is no smoking gun, there is a lot of evidence that points to the fact that this creature may exist. Again, forgive me, for unlike some on this forum, and most everyone else in the world, I have not myself seen this thing. At least, I am open to the possibility of BF and willing to consider any and all information that would convince the skeptical side of me once and for all.

Here's what is so maddening. Why are most other skeptics, doubters, and non-believers so closed off to the possibility that BF may exist? What drives them to dismiss ALL evidence, however thought provoking or compelling, without so much as a shred of objective consideration? They don't give the possibility of BF existence or any of the evidence a second of their time. Their energy is invariably spent denying, diverting, and diminishing any notion of the big guy. What are they protecting so strongly? Why can they not open their minds to the evidence? There is some strong psychological defenses going on in most people that I find very fascinating...and even more frustrating.

So, what's the deal with skeptics? Why the extreme close-mindedness?

MNSkeptic

 

I can only speak for myself. I grew up loving horror movies, specifically monster movies. My favourite creatures were always the beast men. Werewolf movies were at the top of my list. I discovered Bigfoot at 8 years of age in the third grade in my elementary school's library with the books of John Green,  specifically these here...

 

 

 

These books started my lifelong passion for Bigfoot. From the age of 8 until my late 20's I was an ardent believer of Bigfoot. I researched every bit of evidence put forward, ready every book I could get my hands on, and would passionately argue for the existence of Bigfoot. It was by so deeply pursuing all claims of evidence that I eventually found that each thread pulled on comes to nothing. It was about 8 years ago that I went from believer to fence-sitter and finally to being fully a skeptic. That did not diminish my love of the subject and passion for researching it. I still love Bigfoot movies, books, and other material, but I enjoy Bigfoot as a myth. What interests me now are reliable claims of evidence. The reason this interests me is because I do not think it is impossible for Bigfoot to exist. I have argued against those who have said that it is not possible for Bigfoot to exist. When asked I usually state that I put the possibility of Bigfoot existing to be somewhere between 0.01 - 1%. That may seem next to zero, but that extremely small margin is what keeps me interested.

 

Recently there was a claim of a non-human primate arm found in Florida. This is precisely what interests me. It's not an anecdote, it's not a piece of blurry footage, it's not tale told round the campfire. It's flesh and bone and something that can be examined objectively and definitively. I went in with the same skepticism I have always had, but no less interest. After researching all the photos of the bones available to me, I concluded this was not a non-human primate arm. It was no primate, not mammal, not even an arm. It was the hind limb of an alligator. My conclusion was later confirmed by the scientists and professionals who examined the bones. I was not in any way disappointed by the conclusion, nor was I relieved, I was simply satisfied to have a definitive answer about that particular claim of reliable evidence. There's no emotional involvement in whether Bigfoot exists or not. The only thing I can say is that it would be incredibly awesome if Bigfoot did exist, but I have never seen any evidence that would persuade me to make that conclusion.

 

There is evidence. There is a lot of evidence. The problem is that none of it is reliable. Another person can conclude differently and they are more than welcome to. Many of the friends and colleagues I have become acquainted with in the Bigfoot community over the years are of the opposite position as me, that Bigfoot does exist or most likely does. This is not a position I begrudge them nor do I try and convince them otherwise. If they've seen the same evidence, examined the same claims, and if they find it persuasive, I can only hope it motivates them to find better evidence of the same kind of quality we have for every other mammal species in North America. There is nothing wrong with believing, particularly when you haven't been able to see all the facts or have been influenced by believers who don't know or tell the whole story. I know what this is like precisely because I was a believer for so long.

 

What is not cool, what I object to, is when that belief becomes like a cult behaviour. When people start playing Woods & Wildmen, doing an adult roleplaying game and they ostracize and seek to belittle and dismiss those who do not share there beliefs. This is precisely the same thing many believers have an issue with when dealing with people who think Bigfoot is nonsense. I have no problem with a believer asking me why I'm here. It's a valid question. What I have a problem with is being told I shouldn't be here because I don't think or believe the things everyone else does. Many Bigfoot believers like to fancy themselves as being maverick thinkers, open-minded champions of The Truth that the rest of us are sheeple and blind to see. The irony is that many of these people are the most close-minded and cultish, dogmatic I have ever encountered. I love the Scott Herriott's, the Henry May's, and the Steven Streufert's of Bigfootery because they are great people, their enthusiasm is awesome, and they don't get mired in the cult behaviour. These are people that I thoroughly enjoy discussing and debating the evidence with and also sharing our love for various Bigfoot culture things, movies, old documentaries, etc. For every ten allcaps pounding howlers, there is at least one person one person like that who makes it a pleasure to share the enthusiasm with, if not the belief. Henry May thinks he's seen Bigfoot twice, Scott Herriott once, Steven never. I have no interest in trying to take away there belief and they have no interest in trying to make me believe. 

 

So what's the deal with skeptics?

 

If they're like me, they love Bigfoot as a subject, they're open to the evidence, they haven't been convinced by it thus far, but are always open to the possibility. We're as much a part of the community as those who believe. 

 

http://bigfootforums.com/index.php/topic/49020-whats-the-deal-with-skeptics/page-4

[BobbyO]

Ego, an overwhelming sense of self importance, things like that.

Check out how many times the word "I" is used in the above post for example.

[Guest]

 

 

So what's the deal with skeptics?

 

If they're like me, they love Bigfoot as a subject, they're open to the evidence, they haven't been convinced by it thus far, but are always open to the possibility. We're as much a part of the community as those who believe. 

 

 

 

If they love bigfoot as a subject then why go to great lengths to try and kill it off and try to convince people there is no such thing? If I loved something I wouldn't continuously poke fun at it and belittle it. Do you actually love the mythos of bigfoot or do you just love telling bigfoot proponents they are wrong? There is a very big difference.

[kitakaze]

Posting maybe once a month outside of the PGF section where there are maybe 15 people tops regularly participating is a rather failblogdotorg way of going to great lengths to kill of Bigfoot belief. If I loved telling proponents they are wrong, I'd be all over the forum doing that rather than focusing on specific claims of reliable evidence. I might be wrong about Bigfoot. That's part of the fun.

Ego, an overwhelming sense of self importance, things like that.

Check out how many times the word "I" is used in the above post for example.

 

Like so...

 

 

I really don't know SWW, honestly.

I'm fully aware due to working in the field of number crunching and performance analysis in sports that presentation is everything as if it's not presented right and isn't understood easily enough, it's completely wasted.

And I'm very aware that what we are doing now is going to be viewed by people who aren't even aware generally of how to take information from numbers and understand them so I'm very conscious of that.

I have started a little FB page called "Squatchermetrics" which I use as a Guinea Pig to present things and I monitor feedback on how x and y are perceived and if a certain map is more receptive to the general public than another one, that kind of thing.

We are still adding data though and don't have as many pairs of hands as we'd like as if we had more people, the quicker our data submission would be ( if anyone wants to help, please message myself or Gigantor ) and then the quicker the actual analysis of it all would be.

For now I have what I believe to be approximately 95% of all public, investigated to a degree, reports from the State of WA via all public databases and even books, currently 555 reports all locked and loaded in the system.

Across the continent, we have over 2k reports in the system, maybe even 3k I can't actually remember.

The goal is obviously to continue to add as much data as possible, get our head into analysing and the share the results in ways that we are testing right now that will be available and understood by anyone and everyone.

We cover seasonal patters, moon phases, witness activity, creature behaviour, creature description, height, hair colour etc, elevations, location clusters and lots of other key indicators like that.

We believe that with our help, researchers can utilize us to give them an advantage in the field over someone else going in blind.

Our numbers are based on over 100 years worth of thousands of sighting reports that will be give us numbers that will be professionally analysed and shared.

The options in breaking them down for people like you to use to your advantage are absolutely endless.

We feel we can change the shape of how future research is done and how.

 

[Guest]

You mean you don't go around telling bigfoot proponents they are wrong? News to me.

But anyway, if I loved the mythos but didn't believe it I'd be happy to see the mythos continue and I'd love for things like the PGF remaining a tantalising mystery.

[Guest]

Like so...

 

 No. Bobby's had 9. Yours had 37.

[BobbyO]

FAIL !!!

[kitakaze]

 No. Bobby's had 9. Yours had 37.

 

Excellent you can count, but unfortunate that comprehension is not equally proficient.

 

You spent so much time counting pronouns that actually reading and understanding what you are reading was unimportant in your need to hiss at a meanie skeptic. An example of one of the "I"s you were counting in reference to my proponent friends...

"I have no interest in trying to take away their belief and they have no interest in trying to make me believe."

 

That would be an observation of mutual acceptance, tolerance and understanding between believers and non-believers.

 

This was Bobby's attempt at criticism of my answer to the question of why skeptics would spend time on a forum devoted to something they don't believe in...

 

 

Ego, an overwhelming sense of self importance, things like that.

Check out how many times the word "I" is used in the above post for example.

 

 

There is no self-flattery or self-praise or lauding of one's own abilities or achievements whatsoever in my post. Simply a specific answer to those who want to know why a skeptic would be a regular participant in a Bigfoot forum.

 

Hilariously, the post in which you counted nine "I"s from Bobby was completely full of self-lauding of superior knowledge and skills in comparison to the average person and personal and team achievements. The irony of the self-importance in that post could not bee written if you tried.

 

If you had bothered to read what I wrote, you'd have no need to ask why I want to make anyone stop believing in Bigfoot because you'd know I have zero interest in doing any such thing.

 

What you're interested in is creating enmity and intolerance, black hat histrionics. You want me to be the evil scoftic running around desperately trying to take away the open-minded maverick thinkers' belief. It's with zero consideration for how I actually engage in this community.  This is the fundamentalism that I speak of. 

FAIL !!!

 

Proponents ask what the deal with skeptics is. Skeptic explains. A proponent complains at the number of times the pronoun "I" is used. Same proponent only two posts prior was lauding their own analytical skills and achievements in detail.

 

Can't win for losing in Bigfootery.

Edited June 15, 2015 by kitakaze

[Guest]

^

You clearly lack humour Kitakaze. Didn't you see that smiley there? No wonder you are so miserable and grumpy about the concept of bigfoot.

 

Next.

[BobbyO]

Smile once in a while Kitakaze, laugh at yourself too for not being perfect, you might feel a little better about life if you do..

[BobbyO]

 

Hilariously, the post in which you counted nine "I"s from Bobby was completely full of self-lauding of superior knowledge and skills in comparison to the average person and personal and team achievements. The irony of the self-importance in that post could not bee written if you tried.

 .

Sad, incredibly sad.

Add the question to what that post was a reply to at least.

You've copied a post from an other thread, an answer to a question, to a completely different thread, and now you're trying to pull it apart without even offering why the post was written in order to try and make me look bad ?

You used to be better than that Kitakaze, you've lost it old boy..

Must be all that aloud music over the years, it's burst some brain cells.

[Squatchy McSquatch]

In the 26 months I've been on this forum I've 'wasted', on average

 

23 posts a month.

 

A meagher p*** in a bucket that holds no water.

[Guest]

Yeah but how much time do you spend reading in order to decide what threads to actually post in? And wouldn't that time be better spent working on that 'suit'?

 

Got suit? No you haven't. And you never will.