A Few Words Concerning Bigfoot At The Half Century Mark

[Bodhi]

why wouldn't 15K years be enough?

Chasing Rabbit;

Here's Disotell's interview on "Monster Talk":

 

http://ec.libsyn.com/p/7/7/9/779d0f14ad5f47f2/060_Monstertalk.mp3?d13a76d516d9dec20c3d276ce028ed5089ab1ce3dae902ea1d06cb823ed1cb5baf02&c_id=5202207

 

Here's an interview with Disotell on "The BigFoot Show" (the podcast started by the man who basically started this forum):

 

http://www.bigfootproject.com/bfs/bfs_043_rss.mp3

 

I was going to try to quote Dr. Disotell but there is so much great info I'd be sure to leave something out.... Enjoy.

[Guest WesT]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17330-why-some-monkeys-are-better-liars.html#.VZYR7yPD-BY

[Guest DWA]

^^Once again demonstrating failure to keep up with developments. Would you consider it "abstract thought" to fabricate a lie to gain a predicted advantage? That has been documented in non-humans.  

"Instinct" is, basically, a crock, which hasn't much been documented in non-humans.  No scientist has ever been able to intelligently discuss what "instinct" is.  Because "instinct" isn't.  But they sure have gotten a lot of people to swallow it who believe that science is inaccessible to anybody who isn't a scientist.  The definition of which, they don't understand.

[southernyahoo]

I wouldn't go there DWA, I mean animals procreate but the drive to do so isn't necessarily because they know extinction is the alternative. Instinct is to me like an unstoppable urge and I do think it is hard wiring and chemistry behind it.

Abstract thinking, that's what comes with speech and language. Language allows us to convey complex abstract information, and that fits the evidence for BF in the audio recordings and the fact that they've been so elusive.

[Guest DWA]

I'm going there.  When someone shows me the mechanism by which instinct operates I'm down.  Until then, I'm really chary of people using "I don't understand" as the explanation for stuff they don't understand.  Show me that instinct is imprinted at birth, and how, and i'm down.  Not otherwise.  That's how science works.  As a real scientist says in that WesT link up there:  it's wise not to unduly speculate.

Edited July 3, 2015 by DWA

[Guest]

Richard Byrne, an evolutionary psychologist at the University of St Andrews, UK, points out that the researchers "very wisely" do not speculate about how the monkeys learned to deceive, and whether they can recognise that they know something that the other monkeys don't – an ability known as "theory of mind".

 

Link provided by Wes T:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17330-why-some-monkeys-are-better-liars.html#.VZYR7yPD-BY

I didn't say animals can't learn or have learned behavior.  A parrot can be taught to speak but does it know what it is saying?  Spiders spin webs by genetic programming.  Take the most advanced form of animal technology and intelligence and it is still many layers below even early humans.  

Sea Gulls do it all the time to break shellfish.  However if given a golf ball they'll fly it up and drop if 40 times not understanding that i is not a food stuff.    Also many animals have picked up  things from humans.  Learned behavior is not a sure sign of intelligence.  Many animals are clever but clever is not intelligence per se

What animal and what lie did it fabricate, when and where, source?

 

Posted Comment #481 in the link provided above Dr. Richard Byrne of UK., explains that primates of a number of species have learned deceit. Deceit and lie are synonymous.

 

You're parsing words and presenting a false narrative: "Many animals are clever but clever is not intelligence per se," clever is synonymous with intelligence. So what you present in your statement when deciphered reads like this: Many animals are intelligent but intelligence is not intelligence per se. Does that make sense?

Edited July 3, 2015 by Gumshoeye

[Guest DWA]

This is bigfoot-skeptic 'argument,' Gumshoe:  slicing it finer and finer and finer...because smaller slivers are easier to go around in circles.

Edited July 3, 2015 by DWA

[Guest WesT]

Thanks for posting the relevant text from the link Gumshoeye. I only have a smartphone (oxymoron?) at present. A quick Google search will reveal that both monkey's and apes have the capacity for intentional deception.

[Guest]

Thanks for posting the relevant text from the link Gumshoeye. I only have a smartphone (oxymoron?) at present. A quick Google search will reveal that both monkey's and apes have the capacity for intentional deception.

You’re more than welcome Wes T, it was a good read and I learned something along the way so it was twofer!  J

[ShadowBorn]

"Instinct" is, basically, a crock, which hasn't much been documented in non-humans.  No scientist has ever been able to intelligently discuss what "instinct" is.  Because "instinct" isn't.  But they sure have gotten a lot of people to swallow it who believe that science is inaccessible to anybody who isn't a scientist.  The definition of which, they don't understand.

DWA

Instinct is not a crock , I repeat instinct is not crock. Instinct to me at least is doing some thing repeatedly until it becomes second nature. Being able to detect danger and avoid it or understand the need to walk or crawl.

 

In animals their instinct is to be able to hide  and not be seen.  To be able to stand still in the presence of danger and avoid detection.   

[southernyahoo]

I'm going there.  When someone shows me the mechanism by which instinct operates I'm down. 

 

It's elemetary,

 

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/instinct

 

noun

1.

an inborn pattern of activity or tendency to action common to a given biological species.

2.

a natural or innate impulse, inclination, or tendency.

3.

a natural aptitude or gift:

an instinct for making money.

4.

natural intuitive power.

 

 

It's a brain function affecting behavior and might be learned or innate. An action that doesn't require conscious reasoning perhaps? Like ducking when something is thrown at your head. Some people say we only use about 10% of our brain at any one time, but the rest must be doing something right? It's processing information that the conscious mind is not aware of. I think it's where some us get our spidey senses.

[Guest Crowlogic]

"Instinct" is, basically, a crock, which hasn't much been documented in non-humans.  No scientist has ever been able to intelligently discuss what "instinct" is.  Because "instinct" isn't.  But they sure have gotten a lot of people to swallow it who believe that science is inaccessible to anybody who isn't a scientist.  The definition of which, they don't understand.

I can understand why you say everything is is a crock since in order to maintain your beliefs a lot has to be tossed.  Instinct is silent knowledge, knowing when to and how to act sometimes without having a direct stimuli.  Modern Humans are not thought to have developed instincts, we have reflexes and learned responses..  The closest humans get to instinct is intuition and even that is a questionable possession.  That said how does a spider know how to spin a web when spiders are not raised by parents.  Yet they spin webs.  What then is driving them?

[Martin]

Re: "squatch" hair = " matches no known primate " and " unknown primate hair" are very different statements.

Gotta keep your eye on the ball...... or you will get confused and start believing all sorts of crazy things.

The Coy farm had garbage bags full of poop and hair that matched "no known primate."

[Guest diana swampbooger]

Considering we have documented 21 senses at this point, I've always considered registering & cataloging their informational input as interesting & useful. There is another group called nano-biocrytals of which various sizes are located throughout the body. They perform similar to an old fashion crystal radio except there is input & output... anyway, that's my concept of the action of instinct.

It's just an 'is'.

I have no concept on the abstract 'be' of instinct. Perhaps someone else can wax philosophic.

[WSA]

Crowlogic.....green monkeys. It is fairly well established they are capable of fabricating a specific kind of alarm signal (Eagle!) to trick others into abandoning a food source so as to leave more for them. That is an extremely complex and abstract thought process indeed.