Guest Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 gray jay: Now how in the world can a statement like this : Now for the folks who got randomly BF'd be boring ? LOL You have a twist of making things very interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDL Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Absolutely, i'd go one further & say they're not just believers, but knowers.. I suppose "knowers" is an apt term for some, though it actually refers to behaviors engaged in by a few of those with direct experience. It's an interesting situation - to know for certain the answer to a hotly debated question, but to be attacked when you offer your experience. Some suggest you misperceived something else; that you wanted to see what you saw, therefore you saw it; or worse, that you're a little bit crazy, or an outright fabricator. You can't prove that you saw what you did, the only thing you have to back it up is your own reputation. I can see how "knowers" can become as critical as skeptics. Objective, vetted reports are one thing, but every substandard claim, every loose "I heard something rustling in the woods", every bit of stretched circumstance, every wild extrapolation, and every hoax devalues the only currency you have. If it becomes personal, then a "knower" may even be more critical than an objective skeptic. Personally, as one with direct experience, I tend to set a higher bar for evidence than most do. I see a lot of stuff that believers seem to accept, but which seems a little fishy to me, and I notice that it's the "knowers" that jump in. I see other stuff that rings true to me, and I notice that it's the skeptics that jump on this. From my perspective I'm not here to lean over the rail and give a bloodthirsty thumbs down whenever I see soft evidence that's been poked full of holes. It's going to live or die on its own anyway. I do, sometimes feel the need to defend what I consider solid evidence that is under fire, but then I realize that there are some who are shooting at it not because they view it as shaky, but because they also view it as somewhat solid. Paradoxically, a skeptic doesn't need to do any work when it comes to the truly soft evidence - the "knowers" will swarm it and take it down for them. The skeptic is the one who challenges the solid evidence, because for them it not only has to be solid on one face - it has to be as solid as a diamond all the way through so that they can accept it - and there are several on this forum who are genuinely here looking for diamonds so that they can draw a definitive conclusion. Then there are the others who seem to attack all evidence, soft or solid, for reasons other than objective skepticism. To me, these are also "believers". Their attacks are not about gaining knowledge, they are about reinforcing their own belief system. I've concluded that it is a waste of time to attempt to engage them in objective debate. I doubt that any of them are here to actually gather information, though I suspect that the day will come, when the final irrefutably solid diamond is presented, that they will suddenly become long-time experts on all things bigfoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silver Fox Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Define 'research'. I hope you don't mean that people can't contribute unless they spend three nights a week out in the boonies looking for twisted tree-tops and indistinct impressions in the ground. And what exactly would spending three nights a week in the boonies contribute anyway? If you see some shadows, or hear a few noises, and attribute them to bigfoot, is that research? So even though I've been following this mystery since the early 70's, met and talked with John Green in the early 80's, participated in the IVBC in the early 90's, created a bigfoot website in the mid 90's, was interviewed for a newspaper article in the late 90's, held EB's toes in the fire for longer than I care to remember, and been a long time contributing member of the BFF, because I actively engage my skepticism when discussing bigfoot, and don't do sufficient 'research', you get to determine whether I can or cannot be part of the BF community? Just curious, but what BF 'research' do you do Fox? RayG Excuse me? The BF Community is made up partly of folks who say, "There is no BF." That makes no sense to me at all. Why would they be part of the Community. They would be part of some BF Denier or BF Skeptic Community. Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Silver Fox Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Strange as it may seem, I'm not referring specifically to skeptics. Some of the worse attackers & ridiculers claim to be believers, so it would be unfair to put all the blame on skeptics. As I said, I have a theory as to why some are constantly in attack mode, but I would like to hear other views, if Grayjay doesn't mind having her thread going in that direction. I don't see the point of attacking and ridiculing scofftics. Seems a waste of time. Why argue with a wall? I don't argue with folks who have their minds made up. As an added thought, how many BF skeptics are really skeptics anyway? How many skeptics believe this? Does BF exist? I do not know. It is inconclusive whether or not BF exists. They may exist or they may not exist. I am uncertain. A scofftic says they don't exist. His mind is made up. Seems most skeptics are really scofftics, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Fox, you still didn't define what you meant by 'research', nor did you tell us what 'research' you do. As for belonging to a 'skeptic community', I've been a member over at the JREF for nearly 10 years, so I have my hat in both rings you might say. It doesn't mean I believe or disbelieve in bigfoot though. RayG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bipedalist Posted May 31, 2011 BFF Patron Share Posted May 31, 2011 .....but then I realize that there are some who are shooting at it not because they view it as shaky, but because they also view it as somewhat solid. Ahh, therein lies the rub. Worthy of a keynote address at the next BF Convention I'd say. Bravo, bravo! Now if the DNA and video will just play into our hands as "solid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasfooty Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) I don't see the point of attacking and ridiculing scofftics. There is no point except the fun of returning fire. That can be amazingly funny, but I digress. The (self proclaimed) believers only occasionally attack the scofftics. They attack each other & the knowers. That is why I asked the question as to what their motive is & I think Indie has come closest to the truth. As an added thought, how many BF skeptics are really skeptics anyway? How many skeptics believe this? This is another good question that deserves some close scrutiny. As a matter of fact, one of our resident skeptics admitted to having an encounter less than two months ago on another forum, then within a few days, proclaimed his skepticism here. Makes me wonder what their motive is, too. Edited May 31, 2011 by Sasfooty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blackdog Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 (edited) There is no point except the fun of returning fire. That can be amazingly funny, but I digress. It's also a good way of avoiding questions. The (self proclaimed) believers rarely, if ever attack the scofftics. They attack each other & the knowers. Now that was funny. There have been threads here and other places dedicated to bashing skeptics and scoftics. The word scoftic itself has been used to bash skeptics even to this day. This thread is borderline skeptic bashing as are most others where evidence is discussed. Either you haven't been around the internet BF discussion for very long, you don't pay much attention or... As a matter of fact, one of our resident skeptics admitted to having an encounter less than two months ago on another forum, then within a few days, proclaimed his skepticism here. Makes me wonder what their motive is, too. Nope not paying attention, if you read his post you would understand what happened to him. My motivation for being on the forums is the same as most people, to try and learn something while cutting through the BS, but the BS seems to get deeper and deeper all the time. Edited May 31, 2011 by Blackdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasfooty Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Nope not paying attention, if you read his post you would understand what happened to him. I couldn't care less what happened to him. It's what he said that I'm referring to. In the event that you weren't paying attention, I'll repost what I said: "As a matter of fact, one of our resident skeptics admitted to having an encounter less than two months ago on another forum," And on the other forum, he said that "it happened - I finally had a bigfoot encounter, and I think it might be BFRO-worthy. Just the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Couple of nice, optimistic posts here!! This would all be really wonderful, if it wasn't for human nature getting in the way so many times. So the first thing we need to do is figure out why one part of the group of humans feels constantly compelled to attack & ridicule the other part of the group. I have a theory, but would like to hear some others. Maybe they just need a big group hug to help get them over their anger & exasperation. Weren't we over this, a couple (or more) months ago? Your claim of being attacked, and when pressed, you presented a rather lame example. If you've been truly subjected to "attack & ridicule," did you happen to report it to the Moderation team? Myself, I tend to disbelieve your extraordinary claims of habituation or fairly common encounters, but that's hardly attack nor ridicule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Blackdog Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I couldn't care less what happened to him. It's what he said that I'm referring to. In the event that you weren't paying attention, I'll repost what I said: "As a matter of fact, one of our resident skeptics admitted to having an encounter less than two months ago on another forum," And on the other forum, he said that "it happened - I finally had a bigfoot encounter, and I think it might be BFRO-worthy. Just the facts. Again, you weren't paying attention to the context of his post, you just saw what you wanted to see. I would say that explains a lot but I already got past that part. He NEVER said he actually believed it was a BF but insinuated that someone, with bigfoot on the brain, might think it' bigfoot. That is a BFRO class B encounter. A class B encounter on the BFRO is any sound in the woods that a person claims they can't explain 100%, think it might be attributable to BF and the investigator can't find any reason to think they are lying. That's why it's Class B. Just as a qualifier, I was a BFRO investigator at one time and had access to FLATS (their database) and I know what is/was BFRO-worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasfooty Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Weren't we over this, a couple (or more) months ago? Your claim of being attacked, and when pressed, you presented a rather lame example. If you've been truly subjected to "attack & ridicule," did you happen to report it to the Moderation team? Myself, I tend to disbelieve your extraordinary claims of habituation or fairly common encounters, but that's hardly attack nor ridicule. Hey, Inc!! How do you like my new avatar? I was beginning to wonder what had become of you. Been out on a big BF hunt? I heard some juicy details about one of your hunts, but don't worry, I won't tell. Yes, we did go over the attack & ridicule subject awhile back, but some subjects just never get old, do they? I believe I explained to you that I'm a big girl, & don't feel the need to go tattling to a mod every time somebody gets snarky. "Sticks & stones" & all that stuff. Here's one for you: I disbelieve that you disbelieve me. I don't think it would get to you so bad if you thought I was lying. I think it eats on you because you believe it's true, & as you said awhile ago, "It isn't fair." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Yes, we did go over the attack & ridicule subject awhile back, but some subjects just never get old, do they? I believe I explained to you that I'm a big girl, & don't feel the need to go tattling to a mod every time somebody gets snarky. "Sticks & stones" & all that stuff. Getting "snarky" is attacking and ridiculing? In other words, your claim of attack amounts to squat? I'm understanding better all the time. Oh, was this post considered an attack? Probably, eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasfooty Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I'm understanding better all the time. Oh, was this post considered an attack? Probably, eh? Why, no, I certainly didn't consider it an attack. As a matter of fact I can't recall you ever attacking me. You've been a perfect gentleman at all times. How could you ever think such a thing??? I was thrilled to hear from you, & breathlessly waiting for your opinion of my new avatar. I guess you don't like it, & you're too kind to say so, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 I was thrilled to hear from you, & breathlessly waiting for your opinion of my new avatar. I guess you don't like it, & you're too kind to say so, huh? My, it seems terribly important to you, you continue to mention it. Smoke 'em if you've got 'em, eh? Anxiously awaiting another upside-down 17' image. I wouldn't describe it as "breathless," but thanks for the boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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