Would the scientific discovery of Sasquatch revolutionize Paleo Anthropology

[guyzonthropus]

But there is a degree of validity in what he says........

[hiflier]

12 hours ago, guyzonthropus said:

But there is a degree of validity in what he says........

 

Yes, admittedly........a degree. But the generalities of ignorant, unread, and not paying attention? He is overdue  for being more specific. Most here read, and most here are not ignorant, and most pay attention. But most need more than what anecdotal, and soft evidence supports. I see no pursuit to dig up and verify under peer review things like unknown primate DNA. DWA is satisfied with the idea that everything points to a real creature and that's all he needs. But for most who read, are not ignorant, and do pay attention it is simply not good enough. And there's been enough battling on the subject over the years to support that the evidence not good enough.

[guyzonthropus]

Hmmm...I took it he  was referring to either those outside the forum or perhaps a select few here who while unnamed know who they are, which I hope isn't me because if I'm one of those, I had no idea!

 

Upon rereading the post in question, I m rather sure he's not stating that everyone is ignorant, not reasoning nor inattentive, but rather those who still maintain the position that there is i)no supporting evidence, ii) insufficient amount, or compete absence, of multiform evidences to even consider justifying acknowledgement, much less upper level(university level, significant financial backing, etc) investigation, of some tabloid fuelled myth of  a hairy apeman running amuck in the woods, iii) no really am basis to be found within witness reports, iv)anyone with a bucket and some plaster can make a big footprint, v)it's already been proven a hoax, vi)if it was real, science would know, since they don't, it isn't...I could go on forever(as many of you know..)

The point being that I read that post as in reference to denialists and obstinate sceptics who (sorry bout this there big D,  but I can't resist it....) obviously haven't read the witness accounts, which when viewed en masse show a cohesive consistency which simply cannot be the result of widespread individual hallucination or misidentification of known species of their region.

 

And if  that's what he's saying, well, then I do kinda have to agree.

 

As for peer review, well, that's a significant element of standard scientific publication of one's research. Of course, as melba discovered, this subject matter presents difficulty in getting the scientific community to even consider such review due to any number of possible inhibitors(whole 'nother thread!) And there in lies the problem with proper peer review procedures for any scholar attempting to publicly broach the very topic. The downside of the scientific establishment, indeed......

[Guest DWA]

I think ^^^he's got this.

[hiflier]

Oh GZ, I simply had to plus you for that one. DWA could learn a bit from you eloquent breakdown of the matter. There are things DWA states that I agree with (hear that DWA? I'm not your enemy) Of course science should get involved. One of the things I disagree with is that science knows the score on this subject, good or bad, and has the brains to wade through the para stuff pretty quickly. I truly doubt science is put off by the fringe's own fringe elements. It why I say there something else going on besides the supposed stigma song and dance. If there really is a stigma it was one that was engineered, not one that comes naturally. Science doesn't investigate for reasons we simply don't know. At least I don't. I find the whole posture of the scientific community a little off. And counter to DWA's bashings I do NOT think science's hands off approach is normal. a\As in scientifically NOT NORMAL.

 

One thing I don't hear from mainstream science is an outright, "They don't exist." Why not? It isn't because some are uneducated on the subject because a scientist by nature is a curious beast. It doesn't make sense that none of them will touch this.  

10 minutes ago, DWA said:

I think ^^^he's got this.

 

And so do I DWA. But as far as science goes I simply don't agree that they do nothing because they are (also?( ignorant, uneducated, and don't read. And THAT my friend makes no sense whatsoever.

Edited October 20, 2016 by hiflier

[ShadowBorn]

19 minutes ago, guyzonthropus said:

As for peer review, well, that's a significant element of standard scientific publication of one's research. Of course, as melba discovered, this subject matter presents difficulty in getting the scientific community to even consider such review due to any number of possible inhibitors(whole 'nother thread!) And there in lies the problem with proper peer review procedures for any scholar attempting to publicly broach the very topic. The downside of the scientific establishment, indeed

I think the peer review failed on this one with Dr. Melba when it came to Bigfoot and the science community. It was to quickly done and to many people knew what was happening with the results .  But with the evidence at hand which is a lot to show for it's self of an existence of a creature roaming our forest DWA is on to understand that there is a living entity. Crap I know there is. But if science had that body to fit the evidence that has been found in the field ? That would change how we think about ourselves and the way things were created.

 

There would be no peer review but total chaos within the science community. Now this is just my opinion. But we can go back in time and see what happen when the Gorilla was discovered. We can go back and see how the world reacted and see if Bigfoot would have the same impact as the discovery of the Gorilla. If all we have is unknown primate mixed with Human DNA then a dead species gets discovered it is going to change everything. Science and all.

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

22 hours ago, hiflier said:

Yep, EVERYONE is ignorant, not paying attention, and doesn't read. You say not to disagree with you so of course I WILL disagree. Mostly because I can imagine your diatribe steps on a few toes. Mainly because if no one agrees with YOU they are again, ignorant, not paying attention, or don't read. Cute. A bit inflammatory.....but cute. 

Every body is ignorant because nobody will just admit they don't know the answer.

The cool thing is always knowing the answer.

Even if you don't know the question you have to be the first t know the answer, cause then you can be numero uno.

Knowing that you don't know is the beginning of wisdom.

Not that I'm admitting anything 

 

The emperor has no clothes.

 

Imagine if everyone said they don't know?

 

Does Bigfoot exist?

 

Is the PG film the real deal.

 

Burp.

 

What is Bigfoot.

 

Is that a confirmed sighting.

 

Bigfoot will be found.

 

Exhale.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[guyzonthropus]

But it's not like the emperor really thinks only he and a select few can see his fancy new duds...he knows full well that he's jouncing about all nekkid! Like he's really gonna believe a tailor! He's laughing because he knows he's naked, everyone else isn't, and they all have to say he's clothed as well. There is a parallel here.... 

The creature is better known than we are led to believe, it's just that everyone under the emperor has to say "it's just a myth....."

Science/gov/military knows..not all of each them do, but some of each of them do, you can rest assured of that!

[hiflier]

^^ BINGO!

 

Lets face some things here that stem from pure logic. We are mere everyday Humans. Most of us don't have high end technology for surveillance if we have any technology at all. Most everyone that visits nature doesn't either. The ones who are keenly aware of "something" out there will have at least a trail cam. Far less have night vision and fewer still have thermal imagers. But even with out those things folks here and elsewhere say they've seen the creature- some full face encounters.

 

Now tell me, with what LEO, F&W, and military has- especially in this day of Homeland Security- Are folks really thinking that at least the northwestern U.S/.Canada border patrol has seen nothing on their infrared or thermal surveillance equipment? Nothing ever? It is telling that not one peep has come out of these guys and gals who review tapes and have state of the art listening devices and the best visual capture in all wavelengths. And the best in night vision and satellite surveillance. And what? Nothing is out there? We have normal folks here who say they've seen the creatures in the daytime, heard them at night, and yet "officially"? Not one shred of current information regarding a large bipedal animal going between B.C. and the U.S. because Sasquatch doesn't recognize international boundaries?

 

HUMANS try to sneak across and- OOPSIE- they don't get very far at all. So three choices: either Sasquatch doesn't exist, or it's better at avoiding the equipment that we think, or......no one is talking. For someone who is a strong proponent there is no choice to be made- it has to be the latter: no one is talking. And science HAS to know. At least the military scientists have to know. To me this is the logical line of thinking that a proponent should have. It has nothing to do with ignorance, not reading reports, or not paying attention. It's that...."something else" that is going on. And I can say this even if I wasn't a proponent because the argument stands anyway no matter who puts it forth.

 

So, in getting back to the OP, just how serious IS discovery of the creature's existence. It would seem......pretty serious.

Edited October 21, 2016 by hiflier

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

1 hour ago, guyzonthropus said:

But it's not like the emperor really thinks only he and a select few can see his fancy new duds...he knows full well that he's jouncing about all nekkid! Like he's really gonna believe a tailor! He's laughing because he knows he's naked, everyone else isn't, and they all have to say he's clothed as well. There is a parallel here.... 

The creature is better known than we are led to believe, it's just that everyone under the emperor has to say "it's just a myth....."

Science/gov/military knows..not all of each them do, but some of each of them do, you can rest assured of that!

So your saying they know the answer?

Then the question becomes how do you know they know.

And does Bigfoot become known or knowable thereby.

Who knows the unknown.

Edited October 21, 2016 by Cryptic Megafauna

[FarArcher]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

^^ BINGO!

 

Lets face some things here that stem from pure logic. We are mere everyday Humans. Most of us don't have high end technology for surveillance if we have any technology at all. Most everyone that visits nature doesn't either. The ones who are keenly aware of "something" out there will have at least a trail cam. Far less have night vision and fewer still have thermal imagers. But even with out those things folks here and elsewhere say they've seen the creature- some full face encounters.

 

Now tell me, with what LEO, F&W, and military has- especially in this day of Homeland Security- Are folks really thinking that at least the northwestern U.S/.Canada border patrol has seen nothing on their infrared or thermal surveillance equipment? Nothing ever? It is telling that not one peep has come out of these guys and gals who review tapes and have state of the art listening devices and the best visual capture in all wavelengths. And the best in night vision and satellite surveillance. And what? Nothing is out there? We have normal folks here who say they've seen the creatures in the daytime, heard them at night, and yet "officially"? Not one shred of current information regarding a large bipedal animal going between B.C. and the U.S. because Sasquatch doesn't recognize international boundaries?

 

HUMANS try to sneak across and- OOPSIE- they don't get very far at all. So three choices: either Sasquatch doesn't exist, or it's better at avoiding the equipment that we think, or......no one is talking. For someone who is a strong proponent there is no choice to be made- it has to be the latter: no one is talking. And science HAS to know. At least the military scientists have to know. To me this is the logical line of thinking that a proponent should have. It has nothing to do with ignorance, not reading reports, or not paying attention. It's that...."something else" that is going on. And I can say this even if I wasn't a proponent because the argument stands anyway no matter who puts it forth.

 

So, in getting back to the OP, just how serious IS discovery of the creature's existence. It would seem......pretty serious.

 

US military pretty much leave civilian business to civilians.  Especially today, more so than maybe in the '50's and '60's.  

 

Yet on a handful of occasions of unusual missing persons - Special Forces personnel have been brought in, section off their own search area, work alone, use their own radio network, ignore the SAR teams, and go in armed - unlike other SAR teams, Park personnel, etc.  Armed.  Only missing persons under what is apparently some special circumstances.  They don't go in regularly - just certain occasions no one else is told about.

 

Which would indicate the military must know something everyone else isn't privy to, and has a separate mission no one else is privy to.

[MIB]

This is kind of off-topic I guess, but it fits with other content.     We've variously asked / speculated what the military interest in sasquatch might be.   Maybe that's the wrong question.   Take the Missing 411 cases for instance ... some seem to be sasquatch but many do not.   Perhaps their interest, like in the Dennis Martin case, is not in sasquatch but in making sure that it is "only" sasquatch and not something else that is involved in the specific disappearances.   In other words, it might be those other alternatives that are truly their focus.

 

MIB

[hiflier]

You bring up a good point. FarArchers statement that SF's go in armed is interesting and if they are doing that because of these "alternatives" then it's doubly interesting. Maybe some ideas about what the "alternatives" may entail would be just as interesting IMO. UFO's? terrorists? Maybe some of these missing people stumbled upon a secret militant group? By searching is a designated area where SAR isn't allowed to join in says something as well? 

[Guest Cryptic Megafauna]

Type Specimens and paleo anthropology...

 

How do we know of Australopithecus Boisei, the Hobbit, and Homo Erectus?

Because we have type specimens otherwise known as fossilized skeletons and crania.

If Sasquatch is in actuality a Erectus or Australopith or even a Habilis then we already have the type specimens.

 

What about science, you say, we need a body to study.

 

Well great apes are not that different and a good deal has been studied in those close relatives.

Additionally non intrusive field studies, known as habituation, from  Goodall and other primate researchers

is a form of research that has gained a great deal of prominence and respectability in the last half century or so.

 

With the probable high degree of rarity of Sasquatch and the collection and exploitation frenzy that would follow on the capture of a live or dead body the impact on the marginal numbers would likely tip the species toward extinction.

 

If you doubt it study the likely extinctions of and tragic fates of Gorillas and the present state of chimps living in cages in laboratories and decimation of populations by collectors for zoos, museums, and rich private individuals.

 

So the excuse of a type specimen may not be as relevant as you may think.

 

It would seem likely, as well, that the government may already be studying these secretly as would likely be the best approach.

The only counter argument there is that if more than a few individuals know of an operation it will never stay secret for long, and so for that reason may be unlikely at this point.

 

I'm sure the conspiracy theorists will think up something regarding that and you will shortly see yet another you tube expose.

 

 

[Guest DWA]

The thing that is constantly ignored in this discussion of need-a-body is that the people getting the specimen usually *know they will* because they know where it is and what they need to do to get it.  In other words:  they know it's real.  Exceptions (megamouth shark) exist, but not as many as one might think (the first coelacanth specimen had been *caught by fishermen*, so it's "the first coelacanth acknowledged by, you know, white people").

 

There are many ways to get the documentation today.  And the biggest fallacy in this field is that a bullet will lead to you and me knowing, when it's just as possible that it may not.  There's more than enough information already on hand to certify that these things are real.  All the body will do is speed taxonomic classification, which is a detail.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2016 by DWA