Martin Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 ^ Uh, Ketchum has a Chewbacca mask on her home page as a real bigfoot. DeNovo, the boutique journal as Powell describes, to this day has only published one article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 10 hours ago, MIB said: While not precisely contamination, consider her attempt to get Justin Smeja to destroy the rest of the "steak" with bleach so it could not be tested to refute her claim it was sasquatch. Instead, with a little help, he had it tested by Trent University where it was conclusively shown to be black bear. This demonstrates Ketchum's fraud. MIB She is a joke with no credibility. I do feel sorry for the researchers who sent her samples though. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 There's a very convoluted relationship between the Ketchum study, Smeja's experience, and the reality of the phenomenon. There are a plethora of things that are much easier to gain useful or desireable insight from than this particular issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmaker Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Like aliens, for example? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Smeja was allegedly so disturbed by Ketcham's findings that he immediately sent a piece of bear meat to another laboratory. He shouldn't have been so freaked out but likely had the image of the face of the being he killed, so deeply burned into his mind.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 40 minutes ago, dmaker said: Like aliens, for example? That would be a specific interpretation. I'm talking about the usefulness of the observations/evidence that we use to draw the interpretations from. For instance, how useful do you find this situation with Melba Ketchum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Folks I don't care if she's got a picture of the rear end of a donkey on her website or that she personally believes that Sasquatch jumps through portals to prey on unicorns. She still has what no one else has and no one else wants to see. Five years, 12 labs, some of them blind studies, and over 100 samples later? There is a result. She didn't do the Genome Project testing, she only managed the process of getting the samples tested. What came back wasn't from her. It was from the 12 labs. No one has done what she accomplished while at the same time absorbing everything everybody was throwing at her including misquoting and the constant jabs from the scientific community as well as the Bigfoot community itself. AND try to run a business during the time everyone was actively trashing her reputation. No one can deny that the lady has guts. She gave the believers exactly what they wanted and needed even before she knew anything about who was who in Bigfootdom. Not good enough though. Nope, everyone had her in their gun sights including scientists. I will say this, if a Sasquatch hair is found in that nest who is going to do the final testing? Guaranteed no one will accept the results. And after Dr. Ketchum's treatment who would ever step up? Ketchum had offered the samples to Disotell AND Sykes. Neither one accepted the offer. She was as open about the Genome project as anyone could have hoped for and not one door opened up even though everyone was free to test the same samples that she tested. I ask you, what is up with that?? Clarify that one for me if you care to because I am having and have had a real burning question about that. She gathered evidence from 12 independent labs that Sasquatch is a hybrid Human according to the tests on the nuclear DNA and NO ONE thinks it's significant enough to even want to check things out for themselves? The find of the century is laid at their doorstep and no one else wants to have a look by freely testing the same samples for themselves? Am I missing something here? Everyone knows I've always been in Ketchum's camp and so probably hate me too. Well I don't really give a damn. Edited August 9, 2017 by hiflier 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSA Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I too found that very perplexing hiflier. What would sequencing a single sample cost, and for what return on the investment, possibly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) The nDNA sequences that she provided as part of her paper were analyzed by quite a few geneticists. Those sequences became compelling evidence that the study was in fact a fiasco, and likely a scam given everything else that transpired. The sequence she provided was from a mix of a wide variety of very different animals. Those with sufficient understanding in genetics inferred from it that it was a very clear case contamination that happened in one form or another. Her supporters at the time didn't understand the significance Edited August 9, 2017 by OntarioSquatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Oh, right, a fiasco. Is that what we are calling it now? 14 minutes ago, OntarioSquatch said: The sequence she provided was from a mix of a wide variety of very different animals. And just how does one pull that off? ONE sequence with a wide variety of animals in it? And this sequence was a concoction she stirred up in the back room to hoax the labs while snickering to herself or something? Don' worry, it's OK to dismiss everything now. Everyone else does. Mostly because of stories like that. Yep, evil woman that Dr. Ketchum Edited August 9, 2017 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The only "results" Melba has are in her head. No one else in her field has supported her results as a new species. We support science right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, norseman said: The only "results" Melba has are in her head. No one else in her field has supported her results as a new species. We support science right? You're just not getting this. The results are independent of Ketchum. You make it sound like SHE did all of the testing herself. She did NONE of the testing. The results therefore stand. And yes we support science. the science from the 12 laboratories. Instituting the project could have been Krusty the Clown as far as I'm concerned- it wouldn't change one bit what came out of those labs. I wouldn't slam Krusty any more than I'd slam Ketchum because if Krusty ran the project it STILL wouldn't be Krusty doing the actual testing. Even if Ketchum DID the testing, the 12 labs backed up her findings. She knew enough about the heat she would get so she outsourced the samples. And yet the focus remained on her- not the labs. IMHO the nuclear DNA lab results says it all- Krusty or no Krusty. Edited August 9, 2017 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) Listen to what your saying.....if 12 independent labs verified her results as a real Bigfoot? There would be nothing left to talk about. Can you show me where science has proclaimed the creature to be real? http://doubtfulnews.com/2012/12/dna-experts-view-of-the-ketchum-bigfoot-dna-claim/ Its not even close to what Melba has claimed. We can start by finding out WHO these 12 independent labs are....next she can produce a specimen. Real science is repeatable! If these "12 unknown labs" can verify her results? So can Todd Disotell, Sykes, the Smithsonian and a myriad of other respected scientists and universities. Of course she cannot produce a specimen anymore than she can defend her sleeping Wookie costume! Krusty the clown stays a clown because if he leaves the circus? He loses his spotlight. This is all it is. Edited August 9, 2017 by norseman Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Her goal was to milk as much money as she could from Wally Hersom, and from what I heard, she managed to get at least $500,000. Researcher Bart Cutino saw this disaster as it was unfolding, but couldn't do anything about it. Ketchum's study has gone down as the most successful money scam in cryptozoology Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hiflier Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 (edited) This isn't a Dr. Melba Ketchum thread, it is an Olympic Peninsula Nesting Area Update thread so after this I will not distract from the topic further. Like any good DNA lab that receives hair samples such as Dr. Sykes' facilities the process begins with hair morphology in order to select a subset that is deemed worthy of actual DNA testing. A lot gets tossed out here when morphology observations under a microscope show matches with known animals including Humans. Ketchum's group did that too because DNA testing is a ]n exp3nsive and tedious process as we all know. No one is going to put a bear hair through that process if the morphology under a microscope shows the sample to be bear, or deer, or possum, or Human, or match any other known creature. From Dr. Ketchum's paper http://www.sasquatchgenomeproject.org/linked/novel-north-american-hominins-final-pdf-download.pdf- page 7: "The medulla and root were found to be the two most discriminating characteristics of the microscopic examination. Most of the novel hairs had medullary structures and diameter ratios that were clearly distinct from human hairs. Even though a variety of medullary structures were observed, the micrographs in Figure 5B depict those most commonly encountered. Most of the novel hairs had elongated roots with a somewhat "spade" shape, which is a feature of some animal hairs but is typically not seen in human hairs (Figure 5C, left). Human hairs exhibit characteristic uniform imbricate scale patterns of the cuticle. Several different cuticle patterns were observed on the submitted samples. The hairs exhibited wide imbricate scale patterns proximally that transformed to close imbricate patterns distally. These patterns are distinctly non-human in appearance (Figure 5C, right). Most of the submitted hairs were not microscopically consistent with any of the hairs from the reference collection of common animal hairs that included human, cat, dog, cow, horse, deer, elk, antelope, moose, sheep, fox, bear, coyote, wolf, rat, mouse, monkey, beaver, squirrel, llama and others." So the subset, after eliminating all of those known creatures candidates, was created for the purpose of mtDNA and nuDNA testing. What would anyone else do differently? @OntarioSquatch- What you don't realize is that the time involved in doing all of the testing was closer to an estimated 2 MILLION dollars! $500, 000 isn't even close to covering that cost. Result? Dr. Ketchums facility closed due to the loss- not mismanagement as a lot of rumor has claimed. As I said this isn't a Ketchum thread so I've said enough. My apologies to the Forum for the sidetrack- won't happen here again. Edited August 9, 2017 by hiflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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