Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Had you read the thread you would know that Susie and her husband (a pathologist) had examined the skeleton 20 yrs ago. She remarked that the skull was smaller in proportion, that it did not have a sloping front, that it was Big, around 7' tall (which corresponds to the formal documents). It is apparently not the same skeleton she saw 20 yrs ago. WHO and when it may have been swapped, well don't put words in my mouth because there are a few options. It probably occurred sometimes after the court ruling being Jodi said records indicate that specimen being 7' tall. But at 5' 10", a skeleton would not appear that oversized as indicated by the witness. We're dealing with what Susie remembers herein. She knew it did not look entirely the same. Thanks Jodie. Interesting. P.T., Thank you...If I had been older and wiser I would have followed up on my feelings that something was *off* about Mortimer. Hubby and I would done more than to talk to the physician who had received it as payment, but 20+ years ago I had 2 babies, a young daughter, and a huge house to care for,so mysterious skeletons took a backseat to busy every day life. Years later as I became familiar with Bf,and the sizes of their bodies, those bones in Selma started haunting me. I wonder who has them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Holliday Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 jodie, despite the outcome,this was a job well done on your part in getting to the bottom of this one. what to do w/ the toe? well, maybe it would look cool on a necklace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 How large were the feet? Was there anything special about the feet size wise? I doubt that they are still the original feet, but who knows? The toe may be an NA's, so would that be useful for someone to know? Could the body be buried now since it is known that this is only an average skeleton and not a 7 foot tall possible Indian anymore, much less a young BF? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Jodie, Thank you so much for taking the time to do such a magnificent investigation on and about Mortimer. to you my friend. I sincerely regret that what I remembered being there is not there anymore. I wonder why someone would switch either body/skeleton parts or the whole skeleton? This is just so odd. Jodie, Mortimer was odd enough 20+ years ago to have my hubby asking questions about it, and he is not just someone who does something like that unless he was truly intrigued. You did a fabulous job, and I sincerely thank you for all of your hard work and dedication to proving what or who Mortimer was, even tho I think that now Mort is just a regular skeleton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) I'll probably hold onto to Mortimer's toe for awhile in case the owner wants it back at a later date. I've decided to place it with a friend's ashes that I keep in a nicely carved box. As for swapping, I don't know what to make of that. I don't know that Mortimer's height would have made any difference to NAGPRA's claim, they may have not measured the height even though they said it was 7 feet tall in the report. I think the other morphological indicators would have been more crucial in identifying these remains as NA. I'm not well versed enough on what those differences are to be able to form an opinion. I do know what I looked at seemed to be pieced together from different people. Here is a link to the album of photos. I'm not sure I have it linked right. On hind sight I should have taken more photos but I stopped after measuring the skeleton's height. Some are better than others due to the confined space we were in and poor lighting. I will contact the reporter and get her to send her pics and video to post later. Susie, you and your husband maybe interested in looking at these. https://picasaweb.google.com/109735314684676188381/20110614# Edited June 14, 2011 by Jodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 To Jodie and Suziq: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 To Jodie and Suziq: Too cute, but so sweet... Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 I'll probably hold onto to Mortimer's toe for awhile in case the owner wants it back at a later date. I've decided to place it with a friend's ashes that I keep in a nicely carved box. As for swapping, I don't know what to make of that. I don't know that Mortimer's height would have made any difference to NAGPRA's claim, they may have not measured the height even though they said it was 7 feet tall in the report. I think the other morphological indicators would have been more crucial in identifying these remains as NA. I'm not well versed enough on what those differences are to be able to form an opinion. I do know what I looked at seemed to be pieced together from different people. Here is a link to the album of photos. I'm not sure I have it linked right. On hind sight I should have taken more photos but I stopped after measuring the skeleton's height. Some are better than others due to the confined space we were in and poor lighting. I will contact the reporter and get her to send her pics and video to post later. Susie, you and your husband maybe interested in looking at these. https://picasaweb.google.com/109735314684676188381/20110614# Jodie, Did you get a tooth, a lower tooth? Look at the jaw,the mandible, does it seem to match the skull to you? The lower jaw seems not to match the rest of the skull IMVHO. Yikes, I wonder where people get all of these odd bones from? It's not like you can just walk into a store and order one bone or a skeleton wrapped up to go FGS.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Somewhere, someone has some photos of the original Mortimer. They would likely be 35mm prints in the hands of local residents. They would likely also be in the Court records. If the reporter is a good one, he/she smells a story here and will start digging. What happened to Mortimer? Like I said, somewhere there are photos of the original. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 Somewhere, someone has some photos of the original Mortimer. They would likely be 35mm prints in the hands of local residents. They would likely also be in the Court records. If the reporter is a good one, he/she smells a story here and will start digging. What happened to Mortimer? Like I said, somewhere there are photos of the original. Excellent Idea, Prag, just excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 14, 2011 Share Posted June 14, 2011 (edited) How large were the feet? Was there anything special about the feet size wise? I doubt that they are still the original feet, but who knows? The toe may be an NA's, so would that be useful for someone to know? Could the body be buried now since it is known that this is only an average skeleton and not a 7 foot tall possible Indian anymore, much less a young BF? I didn't bother with asking for the tooth because I had asked previously and the owner chose the toe. The feet were two different sizes and I thought both were too small. They were shorter than mine and I wear a size 8 women's shoe. My take on it is that over time different pieces were replaced as they were damaged and deteriorated to the point that it would be impossible for a lay person like me to look and tell what might be original. I don't think anything clandestine was involved. At this point, whatever happens to the skeleton is up to the owner. She can follow up on the mystery and I might hear back from her if she does. She was just as caught up in the possibilities as I was and her disappointment was palpable on that tiny landing. She was also very embarrassed. I was honest with her, I had a blast regardless of how it turned out and that was really the whole point of the trip for me. Some women like shopping, I like adventure that doesn't require that I sweat or over exert myself. I just want to add that Selma has some of the nicest people I have ever met. I forgot how welcoming and hospitable the deep south is contrary to some of the stereotypes some might have of southerners. Edited June 14, 2011 by Jodie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 Sorry it didn't turn out to be something wonderful. Once I saw the photo I began to think: Why have your 7ft. tall NA sitting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well I have an update on Mortimer's toe. The reporter called today and said the story was sold and a pediatrician in the area read about the skeleton. He has records of his great great grandfather's remains being exhumed and donated to science at some point years ago. I'm not very clear on why the bones were exhumed unless they were moving the cemetery and the family didn't want to assume any expenses in reburial?? I'm not sure how that works and didn't think to ask when I was talking to the reporter. Anyway, this pediatrician wants Mortimer's toe so he can pay for the DNA analysis to see if it is his relative. The doctor is supposed to call me and we will work out the details for shipping. It's illegal to ship human remains, other than cremated ashes in the United States, but you can if you use a facility with a license. We can work something out with a local funeral home to get the toe back to this doctor in Alabama so he can see if it is his great great grandfather. Hopefully, he will let me know how it all turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest watch1 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Well I have an update on Mortimer's toe. The reporter called today and said the story was sold and a pediatrician in the area read about the skeleton. Jodie Thanks for your time and work on this story. Can you tell us what the story was published in (News Paper) (Magazine)? It would be interesting to read this one. I my have a local editor that may be interested in picking this story up. Many in the area may know about Mortimer and be interested in getting to the bottom of just where and whom this all came to be. Sorry that I could not be of more help on this one but as you are finding out..these things seem to take on a life of their own and can at times take you places you never set out to go..LOL Thanks again for your time you spent in getting this far with this story. Mike (watch1) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Jodie Thanks for your time and work on this story. Can you tell us what the story was published in (News Paper) (Magazine)? It would be interesting to read this one. I my have a local editor that may be interested in picking this story up. Many in the area may know about Mortimer and be interested in getting to the bottom of just where and whom this all came to be. Sorry that I could not be of more help on this one but as you are finding out..these things seem to take on a life of their own and can at times take you places you never set out to go..LOL Thanks again for your time you spent in getting this far with this story. Mike (watch1) I'll PM the reporter's name, paper's name, and contact information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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