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Implications of Apparent Consistency of Evidence

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Franco
On 6/4/2019 at 7:16 PM, NathanFooter said:

 

 Still catching up on this thread, it sounds like you ended up on some poorly executed expeditions.   I had heard from several others that the expeds between Iowa and Wisconsin kinda missed the marked for many folks.  I am sorry that in you case the information was not gone over or presented. 

 

 If Sasquatch are anything like all the other primates then curiosity and self preservation can draw their attention, often they seem compelled to scope out potential threats or evaluate a situation looking for some kind of advantage ( food, entertainment or displaying dominance ).  The sounds either can be an outright curiosity draw or possibly fool any individuals nearby into thinking another Sasquatch may have entered their territory and thus respond.

 

 I am going to quote something I wrote about this a few months back regarding what these expeds are for and what you can expect to learn ( assuming your organizer has their head on straight ).

 

--- The BFRO does not guide you out to gander at Sasquatch the way people do at animals in Yellowstone and nor do we put you on a pack-horse into the most remote locations where a tire may not have met the road in a decade to prepare for a 6 month grant program to be the next Jane G.  This is a common misconception of what we are about as an organization ( I am not speaking for ever single expedition or organizer, some members have their own code of ethics and conduct ). The BFRO as a whole provides a form of education on the entire subject and  how it relates to area ecology and history.  Folks have the opportunity to learn and connect with BFRO members for guidance on some of the points below.   

 

 We provide  attendees to accessible locations that repeatedly generate reports at particular times of the year, we put people in the best position possible to have an experience but we do not promise anything except research methodology and environmental education.  We give directed presentations on witness evaluation, reported behavior, field operations, implementation of thermal/audio technology and basic ecology.       We also offer classes on habitat evaluation, report documentation,  data mapping,  track casting, DNA collection and nighttime observation.  We offer perspective, knowledge, methods, tools and hands on experience so you can go out on your own and maximize your odds of encountering these animals.

 

We got the Speech at the Exped.  Dont get me wrong we met some great folks and had a great time.  But I think they do BFRO and The Finding Nothing does more harm to the cause. 

 

I know there Intentions are good. But their techniques  are a rough to swallow.

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SWWASAS
Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, Franco said:

We got the Speech at the Exped.  Dont get me wrong we met some great folks and had a great time.  But I think they do BFRO and The Finding Nothing does more harm to the cause. 

 

I know there Intentions are good. But their techniques  are a rough to swallow.

Finding Bigfoot aired for 7 seasons with 100 episodes.   They deployed very expensive FLIR gear and video camera gear far beyond what individuals can afford.    The video cameras were operated by professionals.   They successfully photographed zero pictures of BF in spite of multiple teasers during shows that all turned out to be some other animal.     I would say that demonstrates some problem with their methodology when individuals such as myself have been successful in less than half that time.    Admittedly luck is a big factor but the real problem, given the numbers of individuals they fielded, has to be technique or simply the number of people they had stumbling around in the dark.      

 

Here is a good example where I have to agree with Bobo.    You cannot chase down a BF in the dark or anytime or place for that matter.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmzfdjJRotU 

 

Edited by SWWASAS
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norseman

But I admire his sand....

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Franco
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

Finding Bigfoot aired for 7 seasons with 100 episodes.   They deployed very expensive FLIR gear and video camera gear far beyond what individuals can afford.    The video cameras were operated by professionals.   They successfully photographed zero pictures of BF in spite of multiple teasers during shows that all turned out to be some other animal.     I would say that demonstrates some problem with their methodology when individuals such as myself have been successful in less than half that time.    Admittedly luck is a big factor but the real problem, given the numbers of individuals they fielded, has to be technique or simply the number of people they had stumbling around in the dark.      

 

Here is a good example where I have to agree with Bobo.    You cannot chase down a BF in the dark or anytime or place for that matter.  

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmzfdjJRotU 

 

Again, I see animals Fleeing at the crack of twig... And If the the animal can see at night, they can see the Infra red from the cameras and trail cams... 

So I agree with you...... 100.05 % lol . Quiet and slow is what brings results.. seems to be the best approach. The Exped I was on, the noise alone would of chased my ass away.... Hell I stay away from Popular Camp sites because of all the non sense. I camp to be in Nature not to do a boogie down lets see how drunk and loud i can get.... 

Not that I am against drinking.... "snort". I stopped Watch Finding bigfoot after the 3rd season, It was going no where. Best part for me was hearing the folks talk about the encounters.......

 

 

Edited by Franco

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salubrious
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On 6/11/2019 at 11:33 AM, SWWASAS said:

Finding Bigfoot aired for 7 seasons with 100 episodes.   They deployed very expensive FLIR gear and video camera gear far beyond what individuals can afford.    The video cameras were operated by professionals.   They successfully photographed zero pictures of BF in spite of multiple teasers during shows that all turned out to be some other animal.     I would say that demonstrates some problem with their methodology when individuals such as myself have been successful in less than half that time.   

 

 

 

I had a chat with Cliff Barackman a few years back when a town in Minnesota declared itself the bigfoot capitol of the world. Or something like that.

 

They had plenty of interactions with BF but could never make it happen on camera. Camera crews make it all tricky, to say the least.

 

 

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SWWASAS
18 hours ago, salubrious said:

 

I had a chat with Cliff Barackman a few years back when a town in Minnesota declared itself the bigfoot capitol of the world. Or something like that.

 

They had plenty of interactions with BF but could never make it happen on camera. Camera crews make it all tricky, to say the least.

 

 

I had a private conversation with Cliff one time and he told me "Finding Bigfoot"   will never find BF.      I think at one point when the ratings started to drop the producers wanted to spice things up by faking events like Mountain Monsters were doing.       The on screen characters revolted and threatened to quit.   So the producers dropped those plans.     Because of that I have a bit of suspicion that the production staff may have been doing stuff that the on screen characters may not have been aware of.    Returning a wood knock or howl would have been very easy for someone in the production staff and Cliff and bunch would have never known.   Over time even BF believers stopped watching the show for various reasons.     I think that was the point where the ratings really tanked.  

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hiflier
27 minutes ago, SWWASAS said:

I had a private conversation with Cliff one time and he told me "Finding Bigfoot"   will never find BF.      

 

Don't think anyone is all that surprised at that. Truly think the show wasn't intended for that. Animal Planet has enough money to go all out on the search but NOPE. Not gonna happen.

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SWWASAS
Posted (edited)

If you take the "Finding" out of the show with a known animal, you just have another nature documentary.      The big part of the show that people enjoyed was the Town Hall meetings at each state visited.    Because they went state to state,  rather than concentrate on states with the most sightings,   probably made it less likely to be able to film an encounter.    I guess they stuck to that travel log format to get nationwide interest in the show for ratings.    By sticking to the States with the most sightings it would be very regional in interest.  

Edited by SWWASAS

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Huntster
58 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Don't think anyone is all that surprised at that. Truly think the show wasn't intended for that. Animal Planet has enough money to go all out on the search but NOPE. Not gonna happen.

 

Here is the post of the year for this forum, if not the decade or of all time. With so few words, the entire phenomenon is captured perfectly. 

 

The monied science industry, of which Animal Planet illustrates as good or better than, say, Scripps Institute, Smithsonian, or National Geographic, are whores as much or more than they are "scientists".

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norseman
2 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

I had a private conversation with Cliff one time and he told me "Finding Bigfoot"   will never find BF.      I think at one point when the ratings started to drop the producers wanted to spice things up by faking events like Mountain Monsters were doing.       The on screen characters revolted and threatened to quit.   So the producers dropped those plans.     Because of that I have a bit of suspicion that the production staff may have been doing stuff that the on screen characters may not have been aware of.    Returning a wood knock or howl would have been very easy for someone in the production staff and Cliff and bunch would have never known.   Over time even BF believers stopped watching the show for various reasons.     I think that was the point where the ratings really tanked.  

 

Thats why introducing a gun into the equation keeps everyone honest. You do not hoax armed hunters.

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wiiawiwb
Posted (edited)
On 6/11/2019 at 1:03 PM, Franco said:

Again, I see animals Fleeing at the crack of twig... And If the the animal can see at night, they can see the Infra red from the cameras and trail cams... 

 

 

I don't believe that is correct.  True no-glow trail cams transmit IR light above 940 nanometers.  Kindly provide a list of the mammals that can see IR light above that level.

Edited by wiiawiwb
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Arvedis
On 6/13/2019 at 7:43 AM, SWWASAS said:

I had a private conversation with Cliff one time and he told me "Finding Bigfoot"   will never find BF.      I think at one point when the ratings started to drop the producers wanted to spice things up by faking events like Mountain Monsters were doing.       The on screen characters revolted and threatened to quit.   So the producers dropped those plans.     Because of that I have a bit of suspicion that the production staff may have been doing stuff that the on screen characters may not have been aware of.    Returning a wood knock or howl would have been very easy for someone in the production staff and Cliff and bunch would have never known.   Over time even BF believers stopped watching the show for various reasons.     I think that was the point where the ratings really tanked.  

 

He didn't change his name to Moneymaker for no reason. :money:  BF reality shows were all smoke and mirrors from the start. I think the strategy was if they did manage to get any real activity it would be a bonus.  Not that Matt is a great businessman but he did get a leg up on everyone else with his database. So that opened the conversation with TV producers.

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cmknight
4 hours ago, Arvedis said:

 

He didn't change his name to Moneymaker for no reason.

As far as I know, his father's family name was Moneymaker. His grandfather changed the name from some obscure German name, to that one, years ago. His father was Richard Moneymaker. Do you have proof that Matt changed his name?

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WSA

FBF did contribute one thing to the field, in general. It raised the awareness of the phenomena a peg. It took it just a little bit out of the tabloid journalism  realm and nudged it up towards a true scientific discipline, where it should be. Sure, they had to fight the producers who wanted to drag it in the opposite direction,  but for the most part, they won that fight. We know this because most of the episodes were dull as dishwater, pretty much what scientific research is, day after day, until... !  **Disclaimer: I never watched an episode after about the second season**. The biggest contribution was to bring eyewitness accounts into the public awareness where it had to be confronted.

 

If I had my dream show it would be Sasquatch Court. Eyewitnesses would be sworn in (or at least pretend to be...not being a true civil or criminal proceeding) and give testimony while being examined by licensed Attorney litigators. Expert witnesses could be called and a judgment entered after a jury deliberated.   If the proponent met the burden of proof  in their case (proof of a substantial issue of material fact) the opponent would then rebut.  This may be a show only lonely lawyers would watch, I'm willing to conceded.  Still, think of the cliffhanger potential alone!

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Huntster
23 minutes ago, WSA said:

FBF did contribute one thing to the field, in general. It raised the awareness of the phenomena a peg..........

 

I believe that's a bad thing, not good. If you really want something destroyed, release it to mankind, and watch it go to Hell.

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