Submitting A BF Sample To Science

[hiflier]

42 minutes ago, Arvedis said:

No one, anywhere, except you and others who spend a great deal of time pondering such things, finds it surprising that no one bothers to think it is an important policy to have

 

Love your typical glossed-over dismissal of things. Dr. Bryan Sykes went there. Ever wonder what that was? https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/full/10.1098/rspb.2014.0161

 

"We are very grateful to Ken Goddard, Ed Espinoza, Mike Tucker, Barry Baker, Bonnie Yates, Cookie Smith and Dyan Straughan of the US Fish and Wildlife Service Forensic Laboratory, Ashland, OR, USA, for help with forensic methods of trace evidence analysis and to Charity Holland, Bonnie Higgins, Gloria Dimick and Michele Yon for technical assistance."

 

So it would seem that the US F&W Forensics Lab would be very aware of suspected Sasquatch samplings. But if you ever bothered to show the kind of "interest" that could result in this kind of information I think it would surprise the hell out of me. Mainly because the easy approach (yours) is usually just to shoot down someone's endeavors at finding ways to get at the truth. If you could somehow bring yourself to become part of the solution instead it would be a great help.

 

An example of that would be that if you notice, we now have names of people AT THE LAB. Care to touch base with one of them? I rather doubt it, but thought I'd ask anyway.

Edited October 27, 2019 by hiflier

[CallyCat]

Why couldn't you pull a molar, remove a digit or two, and send them to Dr. Sykes for analysis?

[Patterson-Gimlin]

16 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

How about writing a scenario or two that would explain Humans making the nests by breaking of huckleberry shoots up to an inch and a half in diameter? About twelve hundred square yards of huckleberry shoots. Located miles behind locked gates in a remote virtually impenetrable area of woods. I'd be interested in reading whatever you come up with. I think an explanation that would make sense might be welcomed by most. 

Are you saying it can't be done by humans? The same has been said about mid tarsal breaks,but 1 in 13 humans exhibit this trait.  

[hiflier]

6 hours ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

Are you saying it can't be done by humans?

 

Hmmm. Did I say that? Nope, not at all. I said this:

 

6 hours ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

How about writing a scenario or two that would explain Humans making the nests by breaking of huckleberry shoots up to an inch and a half in diameter? About twelve hundred square yards of huckleberry shoots. Located miles behind locked gates in a remote virtually impenetrable area of woods. I'd be interested in reading whatever you come up with. I think an explanation that would make sense might be welcomed by most. 

 

So an explanation that would make sense, if Humans made the nests, was what I was asking for. I had shown a video of a bear pulling down branches to create what looked like the makings of a nest. For bears though, the size and number of nests in the OP along with the area of huckleberry shrub damage is somewhat problematic but bear scat was prominent and also found in the DNA samples taken. And since Human DNA was also found in the soil samples I was simply curious about a "story" that would account for the making of the six fresh nests of the size that were initially reported to be found with greenery still present on the material.

 

As you can see, Patterson-Gimlin, I will not let this subject/phenomenon die with time like so much else. It's just too danged interesting  

Edited October 27, 2019 by hiflier

[hiflier]

14 hours ago, CallyCat said:

Why couldn't you pull a molar, remove a digit or two, and send them to Dr. Sykes for analysis?

 

Because I don't think a private citizen could get it through the mail without some inspector blowing the whistle on it being a "body part". My guess is after that the sender would get a knock on the door asking where the "victim" is buried and wanting to arrest the sender as a murder suspect and search the premises. That's why a BF body needs to be left in situ followed by a very careful orchestration of who it is that one notifies. If the finder doesn't have a friend who is an LEO then ask around one's circle of friends to see who does. Document everything on site and then document who goes there and what gets done and by whom.

 

It seems worrisome to ask whoever goes to see the creature to go off the record but under the circumstances, if explained, then whoever agrees to go just might do it privately. If it IS an LEO then they should be told exactly what the seriousness of the find could mean if the news somehow got out before the proper safeguards are in place to protect the discovery. Personally I would say nothing until an LEO is off-duty. That's why knowing one, or someone you know and trust does, is probably about the only thing that can be done. THEN have the LEO friend, since they have more credibility, agree to contact a biologist on the QT.

 

An LEO may agree to that once they go with you and see that the discovery isn't Human and definitely not a bear. Once that's done then a deeper discussion on how to proceed, and WHY, can be broached. It would be out of anyone's hands to stop whatever happens after that. One can only hope that the find will drive home the need for careful handling in order to get a sample looked at while under the direction and supervision of the biologist. If there is a better way then I would certainly be open to hearing it. Or expanding more on what I've just said.

 

Of course the usual precautions regarding electronic devices should be in place. Devices off and wrapped in foil with batteries removed. Once the discussions are over devices can go back on but nothing concerning the find should be mentioned. Write notes if need be.

Edited October 27, 2019 by hiflier

[Patterson-Gimlin]

14 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

Hmmm. Did I say that? Nope, not at all. I said this:

 

 

So an explanation that would make sense, if Humans made the nests, was what I was asking for. I had shown a video of a bear pulling down branches to create what looked like the makings of a nest. For bears though, the size and number of nests in the OP along with the area of huckleberry shrub damage is somewhat problematic but bear scat was prominent and also found in the DNA samples taken. And since Human DNA was also found in the soil samples I was simply curious about a "story" that would account for the making of the six fresh nests of the size that were initially reported to be found with greenery still present on the material.

 

As you can see, Patterson-Gimlin, I will not let this subject/phenomenon die with time like so much else. It's just too danged interesting  

Sorry about that. I misunderstood. I don't know of any stories like that. The reason I said probably humans is because I am 100% sure they exist .

I am not convinced thunderbirds or large man apes do.  I did not see the bear video you mentioned. 

[hiflier]

12 hours ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

I am not convinced thunderbirds or large man apes do.  I did not see the bear video you mentioned. 

 

Well, I'm not convinced either but I also don't have a hard line on that. As far as the video? Here ya go  

 

 

[SWWASAS]

23 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

Because I don't think a private citizen could get it through the mail without some inspector blowing the whistle on it being a "body part". My guess is after that the sender would get a knock on the door asking where the "victim" is buried and wanting to arrest the sender as a murder suspect and search the premises. That's why a BF body needs to be left in situ followed by a very careful orchestration of who it is that one notifies. If the finder doesn't have a friend who is an LEO then ask around one's circle of friends to see who does. Document everything on site and then document who goes there and what gets done and by whom.

 

It seems worrisome to ask whoever goes to see the creature to go off the record but under the circumstances, if explained, then whoever agrees to go just might do it privately. If it IS an LEO then they should be told exactly what the seriousness of the find could mean if the news somehow got out before the proper safeguards are in place to protect the discovery. Personally I would say nothing until an LEO is off-duty. That's why knowing one, or someone you know and trust does, is probably about the only thing that can be done. THEN have the LEO friend, since they have more credibility, agree to contact a biologist on the QT.

 

An LEO may agree to that once they go with you and see that the discovery isn't Human and definitely not a bear. Once that's done then a deeper discussion on how to proceed, and WHY, can be broached. It would be out of anyone's hands to stop whatever happens after that. One can only hope that the find will drive home the need for careful handling in order to get a sample looked at while under the direction and supervision of the biologist. If there is a better way then I would certainly be open to hearing it. Or expanding more on what I've just said.

 

Of course the usual precautions regarding electronic devices should be in place. Devices off and wrapped in foil with batteries removed. Once the discussions are over devices can go back on but nothing concerning the find should be mentioned. Write notes if need be.

You raised several issues,   especially if a body is acquired by shooting it.  Given BF does not look human,   but I would not want to be the subject of the test case as to if BF is human,   with murder charges filed because of very close to human bigfoot DNA.   A DA would like nothing better than to get a case in the law books as legal precedent.     Without previous determination of what it is,  a LEO is not going to be of any help knowing what to do with a body.    The LEO friend you approach may well be the one that slips the cuffs on you.   Adding to the difficulty if BF is not close to human, every state has different laws about hunting and permits to do so,  so shooting some not yet accepted animal in one state might be illegal in another state.   All of this stuff needs to be worked out before some individual pulls a trigger unless the individual has a great desire for some prison time in exchange for their brief moment of fame.    You might never spend time in jail but I am reasonably certain you are going to need a lawyer to jump the legal system hurdles.  

[Catmandoo]

Hiflier, your scenario requires a dead animal to remain in place, undisturbed while humans scurry about.  Good luck with that. How many dead animals / skeletons have you seen in the woods? Nature moves quickly.

Going along with your scenario, a body would be immediately seized by US Fish and Wildlife and the person(s) would be kicked to the curb as in pawn sacrifice.

 

I don't get excited about tracks / trackways because a 'track' is where the animal was, not where it is or where it is going.  A ' lead away ' maneuver  is common in the animal kingdom.  I have never seen a nest that I was aware off,  just places where bears and ungulates crushed some grasses when they bedded down.   I don't get excited about twist snaps.

 

Bears are good at nests. Perhaps genetic memory / instinct spanning thousands of years and continents.  The Cave Bears of France were digging out nests 30,000 years ago that we know about.

 

Do you research nests in Maine?

 

 

 

These twist snaps are from an ELK.  An example of an animal that does not have opposing digits that can really tear up vegetation.

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Catmandoo
more text

[Patterson-Gimlin]

5 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

Well, I'm not convinced either but I also don't have a hard line on that. As far as the video? Here ya go  

 

 

Thank you very much for sharing. 

I think the bear should stick to dens and leave the ground nests to birds and primates 

[hiflier]

3 hours ago, SWWASAS said:

You raised several issues,   especially if a body is acquired by shooting it.

 

Well.....Okay.....but I didn't mention anything about shooting one. It was all pertaining to finding a dead one in the woods. Then a member asked about removing a molar or a pinky? And that's when I said anyone in possession of a pinky or molar and trying to get it to Sykes (i.e. out of the US) would instead find themselves in a lot of hot water. Especially since even being in possession of any kind of bird feather is illegal- never mind a body part of an animal not on a controlled list like for hunting. Nothing was said about shooting anything. I was also trying to say that leaving the body alone and bringing someone to it in authority would be personally the best way to go. Sure the LEO may not be equipped to do anything with the body but then no one should expect that. What they should expect is having an LEO corroborate the find and then calling a biologist. The only thing the "finder" should do in the whole affair is to insist on documenting everything and anything anyone does with the body.

 

Really thought I explained all of that in the post. I KNOW I didn't say anything about any shooting at least 

 

41 minutes ago, Catmandoo said:

Hiflier, your scenario requires a dead animal to remain in place, undisturbed while humans scurry about.  Good luck with that. How many dead animals / skeletons have you seen in the woods? Nature moves quickly.

Going along with your scenario, a body would be immediately seized by US Fish and Wildlife and the person(s) would be kicked to the curb as in pawn sacrifice.

 

I don't get excited about tracks / trackways because a 'track' is where the animal was, not where it is or where it is going.  A ' lead away ' maneuver  is common in the animal kingdom.  I have never seen a nest that I was aware off,  just places where bears and ungulates crushed some grasses when they bedded down.   I don't get excited about twist snaps.

 

Don't see anything relevant here to what I posted. As far as I know, a dead animal as large as a Sasquatch is supposed to be would still have at least a lot of it left within the few hours that it would take to get someone there. And F&W would have to know about it before they could kick anyone to the curb. What I'm saying keeps them out of the loop for as long as possible until corroboration by a second and/or third party goes to look at the thing. Twig breaks are common- no argument there. But Twigs broken of to create six nests with the largest being 8 X 4 X 1 foot thick? Sure an elk did that  

 

12 minutes ago, Patterson-Gimlin said:

I think the bear should stick to dens and leave the ground nests to birds and primates 

 

HAH! totally agree. It would sure simplify things if they did  

Edited October 28, 2019 by hiflier

[RedHawk454]

The trick here is to move quickly. Ideally  If anyone came across a dead BiGFo0T, they should load  the carcass in the back of their truck and GTFO.  From that point on it becomes tricky.  
 

 

[hiflier]

31 minutes ago, RedHawk454 said:

The trick here is to move quickly. Ideally  If anyone came across a dead BiGFo0T, they should load  the carcass in the back of their truck and GTFO.  From that point on it becomes tricky.  
 

 

 

Don't forget that getting it outa da woods and loaded it into the back of a truck will be pretty tricky too. Unless one cuts it up.....uh.....which could be highly frowned upon?

[georgerm]

On 10/24/2019 at 8:14 AM, hiflier said:

Keep in mind that these tips are resourceful for any adventure you have at a National Forest, not just when you encounter a 9-ft tall Ape Man. 

For more information please visit, www.ThisWasAnAprilFoolsDayJoke.fs.fed.us.

The part of the story that’s no joking matter:

An estimated 6,000 acres of open space are lost each day, a rate of 4 acres per minute. Looking ahead, the Forests on the Edge project estimates that 57 million acres of private forest lands could experience sizeable increases in housing density by 2030.

 

Public forests are also affected -- the National Forests on the Edge publication estimates that 21 million acres of private rural lands near national forests and grasslands will experience substantial housing density increases by 2030.

.................................................................................................................................................................................If you get a bigfoot and other bigfoot are after it, cut off he head and hands, then rush home and put it on ice. Maybe wrap it in freezer wrap, put on dry ice. Now with no rush, make contacts that does not include cops, game departments, etc . Get an attorney and open up for viewing  on a limited basis and by invitation only. Invite the well known experts that have spend years studying bigf

tf   n                              do such creature as a Bigfoot? Trying to use some logical easoning here. Thoughts?  

 

[RedHawk454]

18 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

Don't forget that getting it outa da woods and loaded it into the back of a truck will be pretty tricky too. Unless one cuts it up.....uh.....which could be highly frowned upon?

 

 

 

i mean if I found a carcass near a forest road and I had another guy to help me load it into the back of the truck, id be high tailking it out of there

 

"I was never here"