Missing 411

[Catmandoo]

The sheriff had a news conference to release the findings of the investigation, today, at 2 PM:

hyperthermia, heat related stress. The estimate of the temperature was 109 degrees.

The water bladder was empty. 

 

You should be able to find the press conference on FOX news.

[hiflier]

On 9/9/2021 at 10:55 PM, hiflier said:

And then, under the conditions, there could be a serious dehydration factor at work

 

On 9/10/2021 at 1:15 AM, MIB said:

 

Unlikely.....

 

Evidently, NOT so unlikely.

[OldMort]

Here's a link.. Cause of death revealed for Calif. family found dead on hike (sfgate.com)

 

I'm having a hard time buying this explanation, but hey, I'll leave it to the "experts."

[VAfooter]

Fox story:

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/california-family-dead-hiking-heat

 

 

At the end, it says the autopsies were inconclusive. Thinking there is more to this story than what we have been told, but this is all we are going to get though. 

[norseman]

Crazy that a dog would die from heat stroke.

[hiflier]

I'm not so sure. The breed can be a factor with large dogs with puggish noses being at higher risk since a short snout doesn't cool a panting dog as efficiently so lethargy and and even unconsciousness can occur at over 100 degrees. Age and obesity are other factors to take into consideration under those conditions. It does make me wonder, though, whether a dog would be loyal enough to stay with its master even if there was water, or thinking that the only water source WAS their master who was now themselves unconscious? At a hundred and nine or ten degrees I doubt it would take long for a dog to be in real trouble. Even walking on a packed trail can be painful for their paws in that kind of head as the ground with its solar absorption is much hotter than the air.

 

I have roofed a ranch style house (five pitch-no roof staging required) in 80 degrees and the WHITE shingles I was laying read a buck sixty. Had to wear thick socks  when walking on it or I would mark up the shingles with my shoes. It was danged near unavoidable.

[MIB]

3 hours ago, norseman said:

Crazy that a dog would die from heat stroke.

 

Crazy they would all die of heat stroke / dehydration / etc sitting upright without any sign of a struggle and they'd all do it together, nobody making an effort to get to the car, people, and bring back help.    I'm not buying it.   Not a bit.    Sounds like a cover up.   Also likely the most we'll ever get.

 

MIB

[WSA]

Occam strikes again. 109 degrees and you do a 7 mile hike in the mountains and you are out of water? Yeah, you die. You all sit down “for just a minute” and you never get back up. Maybe your dog is the first to flag, and you don’t want to leave it. So you pause... maybe the child lives longer than any of them?  Nobody who has ever been on an unshaded and dry trail on a hot day in the West can appreciate how lethargic and stupid you can become and how quickly the body fails. I have come close, and it is no **** joke. Nobody thinks “I need to slam this baby formula (assuming it was mixed) and go get help for the others”, or a similar logical plan. You might even sit down and die just because you for some reason can’t remember what fork in the trail to take.  So tragic and senseless. 

[NorthWind]

Many years ago in 1980, I rode a bicycle from Los Angeles to Washington DC. A friend and I crossed the Mojave desert in late July, early August. I have photos of thermometers at gas stations reading about 107 degrees. There were two of us, and we each carried three gallons of water with us each day. Had to blow on it to cool it off to make it drinkable. But I remember being about 60 miles from anywhere, and starting to get that dizzy feeling. I started seeing things, and my peripheral vision narrowed to a tunnel. I saw a tower in the desert, and thought it was a tower from an amusement part I had worked at. Saw it clear as day. I saw buzzards circling in the sky. When I focused on them, they disappeared. Hallucination. We stopped in what little bit of shade of a joshua tree made and I drank a lot of water, and drank some honey (a trick I used to use from my rock-climbing days), even wet my clothes down before hopping back on my bike to get some airflow to cool off a bit. It was really no huge deal at the time, but looking back on it, I now realize how close I came. The thing is that I didn't even care. I would have been content to just lie down and sleep. And I was young and fit. 

 

I was glad to have had a friend with me to urge me on. Heat exhaustion and heat stroke are no joke. 

[Huntster]

1 hour ago, WSA said:

Occam strikes again. 109 degrees and you do a 7 mile hike in the mountains and you are out of water? Yeah, you die. You all sit down “for just a minute” and you never get back up.........

 

The opposite end of the spectrum (hypothermia) works like that. You're dying, and your brain doesn't register the danger. Not a bad way to go, really. Peacefully instead of panic stricken. But for those left behind, it's a tragedy, especially losing all at once, and seeing children never fully bloom. Very, very sad.

[WSA]

Yup.  My avatar photo you see here was taken on a Yosemite backcountry hike...seven nights in late August. It was a dry, hot year, but probably still not close to the conditions out there last Summer. We were on the approach to the back of Half Dome, four of us. We went too long without water, and even after we tanked up I remember just being on auto-pilot for much of the afternoon. We had a plan for dividing the group (bad idea in and of itself) and looking for a suitable campsite...a simple plan that ultimately proved too much for us to execute. The result was confusion, miscommunication and resentment.  But, to put it simply, we were running on low IQ mode. I've been borderline heat stroked and borderline hypothermic in the backcountry. The two sensations are pretty much similar. You have to fight the urge not to just sit down and give up.  When I see the wildland fire crews out there doing their thing, I'm just in awe of what that takes.  That is a crazy level of conditioning and discipline.  

[WSA]

And looping this back to the OP, cases with circumstances like this one only tangentially shed light on the Missing 411 scenarios in that, obviously, there was no disappearance, but...  I recall at least one disappearance in Yosemite of a solo hiker...strong young guy, athlete...who disappeared without a trace. You could take away some information from the recent incident that helps you appreciate the risks of overheating. Especially if you are a  young person who has the usual over confidence in your abilities and an underestimation of the conditions. You go too long without water in that heat and you start making bad decisions, one of which takes you somewhere you weren't intending to go, and you die there. Nobody locates you for decades, or possibly never.  I recall a number of years back they found the bodies of two mountain bikers off of the Slick Rock trail in Moab, UT. They were huddled up under an overhang, apparently victims of the heat, sitting side by side.   

Edited October 22, 2021 by WSA

[VAfooter]

4 hours ago, WSA said:

maybe the child lives longer than any of them? 

 

If I remember correctly, the father was still holding the baby when found. Which to me seems a bit odd if it was the heat.

 

15 hours ago, hiflier said:

I'm not so sure. The breed can be a factor with large dogs with puggish noses being at higher risk since a short snout doesn't cool a panting dog as efficiently so lethargy and and even unconsciousness can occur at over 100 degrees. Age and obesity are other factors to take into consideration under those conditions. It does make me wonder, though, whether a dog would be loyal enough to stay with its master even if there was water, or thinking that the only water source WAS their master who was now themselves unconscious? At a hundred and nine or ten degrees I doubt it would take long for a dog to be in real trouble. Even walking on a packed trail can be painful for their paws in that kind of head as the ground with its solar absorption is much hotter than the air.

 

 

Not a pug type:

 

 

 

From reports, it was eight years old. Not a pup, but not extremely old either.

[Explorer]

I had a heat stroke in Death Valley in early 90's while backpacking Tuber Canyon on the way up to Telescope Peak in July (I know it sounds crazy and foolish now!)

I recall that the day before it was 125 F in Furnace Creek, and we could not sleep outside at night because the ambient temperature never dropped below 90 F.

My backpack was heavy (I had 3 gallons of water) for a 3-day trip.

We were making slow progress towards the saddle and drinking plenty of water and Gatorade.

 

Eventually, I got dizzy, dropped my pack, and told my friend that I needed a break and sat down in the middle of the canyon.

I had stopped sweating and had no ability to cool.

Drinking water was not helping.

Per my friend, my face was red and had no sweat.

 

I passed out and regained consciousness a few seconds later and my friend who was a military veteran knew what to do.

He helped me get into the closest shady spot in the canyon (it looked like a small cave or overhang 2 ft over canyon floor), raised my legs, loosen my belt and clothes, and poured water all over my clothes.

I laid there for a few hours (seemed like 2-3 hours) until I was fully alert, able to sit up, and regained the energy to continue the backpack up to the saddle.

In retrospect, we should have left right away, but we were young foolish and wanted to bag that peak.

We made it to the saddle and set up camp but at midnight it was miserably hot, and we bailed.

 

The scariest aspect of a heat stroke is the inability to cool down because you stop sweating.

No amount of drinking water will help.

 

However, I knew something bad was happening and that I needed to find shade and cool down.

My friend probably saved my life by helping me find shade and wetting all my clothes (because I was not fully alert, and my cognitive skills were dimmed).

 

If the Gerrish family could not find any shade or cool down by wetting their clothing, then I can believe that they could have died from heat stroke.

However, I still find it odd that both husband and wife died from this since not everyone has the same physical limitations.

For example, my friend was fine and had no heat exhaustion or stroke symptoms during that backpack up Tuber Canyon.

 

I went through a similar experience in Arizona in May-2014 while backpacking solo, where I ran out of water and developed heat exhaustion symptoms.

I knew what I had to do to survive:  stop, find a shady spot, lower my heart rate, and cool down before proceeding (or wait until evening for cooler temperature).

I made it to the destination awfully slow and totally dehydrated, but I made it.

 

[vinchyfoot]

I've treated others for heat stroke and I've had hypothermia, neither is a joke, very easy to underestimate and pay for doing so with your life.