wiiawiwb Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 17 hours ago, norseman said: Even if that meant the extinction of your species? They seem to be doing ok? How are salmon, woodland caribou, lynx and wolverine doing? Are they ok too? How is it that Bigfoot is apart of the ecosystem and yet somehow detached from it in your mind? Ultimately this is all conjecture. Real data comes with species recognition and study. Your simply willing to roll the dice based on “faith”. I have no such faith. The data shows that species are better off discovered and helped. Than to be ignored and paved over. And even then it’s a precarious path. In the case of the woodland caribou? The reintroduction of another endangered species the Wolf was their undoing in the lower 48. Grizzlies are making a comeback too. Will this be beneficial in a world of dwindling resources? It's not faith at all. Look at all of the reports that continue to this day. Where's the evidence that sasquatch are critically dwindling in numbers? The other issue I would worry about is the transmission of disease from humans to sasquatch. I'm not a disease specialist but suspect that we could contaminate a sasquatch more easily than a spotted owl given our close genetic ties to it.
Patterson-Gimlin Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 Hunster Awesome post. Perhaps,you have explained why I have been divorced for many years and will never marry again. Although, I do love all three of my girlfriends. Sasquatch must be entertainment for me as well. I certainly enjoy it. Love the stories,the flimsy evidence and of course the Patterson film. My family members who do believe in the creature don't understand my fascination being I am reasonably convinced the creature only exists in stories and folklore. I found out recently that my son and his hunting buddy had an encounter in 2009 and he never told me because he said I wouldn't believe him anyway. Imagine that. 1
wiiawiwb Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 22 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said: The point is, most of the people who think that interest in this field is ridiculous know nothing more about it than the 'fact' that it is fake. They don't really know anything about it...much like I have little to no knowledge about golf or fantasy football. I think that those things are silly but it doesn't occupy up enough of my thoughts to really spend much time debating people about it. I agree. The average individual is profoundly ignorant about the subject matter. Others can say the same of me with respect to my knowledge about certain other subjects. In the end, I think educating and, in some cases, entertaining friends and family goes a long way to opening the lines of communication. Without that, the chasm spans too far to bridge. I have a lifelong friend that has always been a disbeliever. I explained to him wood knocks that happened to me one night in an area I go to. It meant nothing to him. "That could have been a couple of guys hoaxing you." I finally convinced him to day hike into the area. We went to the locations of the two wood knocks in response to mine. When we walked into the area of the first knock, he got to see for himself how the way out of that area was through a large swamp. I asked him who would be waiting in the blackness of night in this godforsaken area in hopes someone wood knocks so they can hoax them? He had no answer. When people who are not hikers, backpackers, hunters, or outdoorsmen hear about events in the woods, they have no baseline knowledge by which to visual or understand things. When they're brought out into the deep, dark forest away from civilization it changes their perspective. Now they really do understand how vast and remote areas can be. Last year, I showed him a thermal video I took of something upright and bipedal reaching down for something off the ground. His response was, "That moves the needle." 1
Huntster Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 41 minutes ago, Patterson-Gimlin said: ........I do love all three of my girlfriends. ........ I can't handle one. Three would drive me insane just thinking about it.
NatFoot Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 44 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said: I agree. The average individual is profoundly ignorant about the subject matter. Others can say the same of me with respect to my knowledge about certain other subjects. In the end, I think educating and, in some cases, entertaining friends and family goes a long way to opening the lines of communication. Without that, the chasm spans too far to bridge. I have a lifelong friend that has always been a disbeliever. I explained to him wood knocks that happened to me one night in an area I go to. It meant nothing to him. "That could have been a couple of guys hoaxing you." I finally convinced him to day hike into the area. We went to the locations of the two wood knocks in response to mine. When we walked into the area of the first knock, he got to see for himself how the way out of that area was through a large swamp. I asked him who would be waiting in the blackness of night in this godforsaken area in hopes someone wood knocks so they can hoax them? He had no answer. When people who are not hikers, backpackers, hunters, or outdoorsmen hear about events in the woods, they have no baseline knowledge by which to visual or understand things. When they're brought out into the deep, dark forest away from civilization it changes their perspective. Now they really do understand how vast and remote areas can be. Last year, I showed him a thermal video I took of something upright and bipedal reaching down for something off the ground. His response was, "That moves the needle." Would love to see that video! My friend actually hikes quite a bit in UT, OR and WA. Maybe he stays completely on trails...but you'd think he'd have an idea of how remote some areas can be.
SWWASAS Posted January 4, 2020 BFF Patron Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Patterson-Gimlin said: Hunster Awesome post. Perhaps,you have explained why I have been divorced for many years and will never marry again. Although, I do love all three of my girlfriends. Sasquatch must be entertainment for me as well. I certainly enjoy it. Love the stories,the flimsy evidence and of course the Patterson film. My family members who do believe in the creature don't understand my fascination being I am reasonably convinced the creature only exists in stories and folklore. I found out recently that my son and his hunting buddy had an encounter in 2009 and he never told me because he said I wouldn't believe him anyway. Imagine that. So you do not believe your own son? If that is the case it is not only sad but you need to examine the cause of your own disbelief. After all, disbelief comes from inside yourself where as belief can be based on experience and evidence. 2
norseman Posted January 4, 2020 Admin Posted January 4, 2020 1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said: It's not faith at all. Look at all of the reports that continue to this day. Where's the evidence that sasquatch are critically dwindling in numbers? The other issue I would worry about is the transmission of disease from humans to sasquatch. I'm not a disease specialist but suspect that we could contaminate a sasquatch more easily than a spotted owl given our close genetic ties to it. It is faith. Reports are not data. And regardless one report would not equal one Bigfoot anyhow. One Bigfoot could be responsible for thousands of reports over a lifetime. We simply do not know. But looking at other species? Not good. Maybe we already have contaminated them? Maybe they need our help right now!? 52 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said: I agree. The average individual is profoundly ignorant about the subject matter. Others can say the same of me with respect to my knowledge about certain other subjects. In the end, I think educating and, in some cases, entertaining friends and family goes a long way to opening the lines of communication. Without that, the chasm spans too far to bridge. I have a lifelong friend that has always been a disbeliever. I explained to him wood knocks that happened to me one night in an area I go to. It meant nothing to him. "That could have been a couple of guys hoaxing you." I finally convinced him to day hike into the area. We went to the locations of the two wood knocks in response to mine. When we walked into the area of the first knock, he got to see for himself how the way out of that area was through a large swamp. I asked him who would be waiting in the blackness of night in this godforsaken area in hopes someone wood knocks so they can hoax them? He had no answer. When people who are not hikers, backpackers, hunters, or outdoorsmen hear about events in the woods, they have no baseline knowledge by which to visual or understand things. When they're brought out into the deep, dark forest away from civilization it changes their perspective. Now they really do understand how vast and remote areas can be. Last year, I showed him a thermal video I took of something upright and bipedal reaching down for something off the ground. His response was, "That moves the needle." Good for you! I would love to have a FLIR rifle scope. 5 hours ago, 7.62 said: We can't even decide among the bigfoot world what they are . Sometimes i think we are our own worse enemy so talking about it to people who don't believe is pointless. All you have to do is Google it and we have sites saying they are aliens because they always appear when strange lights or orbs are seen. Then you have the NA who many claim they are spirits. Then you have the crowd who Vulcan mind wells with them. Then we have the portal groups. Did I miss anything. And these are all believers so any casual observer I can understand why they might think we are nuts if you mention it When people can not prove something then crazier and crazier theories abound. Human nature.
Patterson-Gimlin Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 33 minutes ago, SWWASAS said: So you do not believe your own son? If that is the case it is not only sad but you need to examine the cause of your own disbelief. After all, disbelief comes from inside yourself where as belief can be based on experience and evidence. I never said I didn't believe him. I am sure they did have an encounter. More likely ,in my opinion it was a bear. My disbelief of large man apes is based on there are none . As you know ,not one single specimen to examine and test. I am interested in EDNA findings. No expectations of course. I have lots of faith and beliefs ,but I have limitations. 1
NathanFooter Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 2 hours ago, wiiawiwb said: It's not faith at all. Look at all of the reports that continue to this day. Where's the evidence that sasquatch are critically dwindling in numbers? The other issue I would worry about is the transmission of disease from humans to sasquatch. I'm not a disease specialist but suspect that we could contaminate a sasquatch more easily than a spotted owl given our close genetic ties to it. Reports continue but nearly to the degree that we note from the 70's, 80's and 90's. There are less and less good tracks being found over the past 20 years, the BFRO gets a very strong stream of reports from 1970 to 1999 to this day but incoming new reports are becoming fewer I would say. We can also not that there are some really interesting tracks that suggest some individuals have fewer digits than normal, this may also suggest inbreeding because a lack of available partners within a given territory. We can also consider the prevalence and comfort level for the subject is very high this day and age, the only apposing point maybe that hunting participation rates are very low when compared to that time frame. I have been looking into reports and occurrence frequency for some time now and I would strongly suggest that the species is not fairing well, we already are a massive disease risk for these animals I would think. Several of the great apes we interact regularly with have fallen to human disease transfer. At this time we put out trash cans, dumpsters and waste products out at easy reach and some data even suggests that some of these animals take advantage of these resources. I personally have interacted with several individuals with some severe chest congestion and breathing issues, in 2015 I had one particular event with an animal at about 25 feet or so from my tent for about 10 minutes screaming, growling and jabbering. I could hear it struggling to draw and exhale and the creature frequently coughed and hacked during the tantrum/display. Could have been simply a bad chest cold or something worse, there was evidence at this very location that someone had been attempting to feed something on a regular basis. We located 11 old salmon fillet bags of various brands both on top of the ground and additional in the soil under the very tree the animal was pacing beneath. This took place during the beginning of the Falcon Project, when we spent several weeks together for team bonding and field routine exercises in preparation for our deployment. These creatures are doomed to extinction in my opinion if we do not step in an preserve ranges, educate the general public and react to what risks we currently pose ranging from the backyard to the remote trail campsite. There is nothing to suggest they are doing well at this time unfortunately.
SWWASAS Posted January 4, 2020 BFF Patron Posted January 4, 2020 20 minutes ago, NathanFooter said: These creatures are doomed to extinction in my opinion if we do not step in an preserve ranges, educate the general public and react to what risks we currently pose ranging from the backyard to the remote trail campsite. There is nothing to suggest they are doing well at this time unfortunately. Having seen what happened in my research area when it was clear cut I have the gut feeling that you are right. It was an area that had been active back into the mid 90s. They had good cover, deer and elk, and a year round pure artesian spring. Cover, deer and elk, are all gone and they had to move off someplace. You cannot keep forcing migration and not have a toll on a population of anything.
Trogluddite Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 3 hours ago, Patterson-Gimlin said: Sasquatch must be entertainment for me as well. That's interesting. To me, it's a problem to solve, just like taking a case-file apart to find the small elements of information that others have overlooked that provide an answer. I'd have been as happy if I had found an unrealistic pattern of uniformity (everything the same estimated height, estimated weight, same siting location/area in a state, same templated encounter story) that suggests fraud as with what I did find - Bell curves in almost every measurable characteristics; temporal waves indicating possible migrations into and out of areas, etc. But to the point of this thread, I share very little w/my relatives as it would simply draw blank stares.
hiflier Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, NathanFooter said: I could hear it struggling to draw and exhale and the creature frequently coughed and hacked during the tantrum/display. Could have been simply a bad chest cold or something worse, there was evidence at this very location that someone had been attempting to feed something on a regular basis. We located 11 old salmon fillet bags of various brands both on top of the ground and additional in the soil under the very tree the animal was pacing beneath. Speculating here by linking my thoughts on corporate/government collusion in their demise. The paragraph I quoted led me to think of baiting the one you encountered with poisoned salmon filet. I am one of several here who think the populations are in decline. Barring hit squads and reduction of habit and other pressures, could poisoning be an option since officially chasing them down and shooting them has been a failure? We don't find the bodies because of the usual suspected reasons I suppose. And maybe in some instances the poison used isn't powerful enough for a creature that size and they just get sick. It could be enough of a deterrent to stay away from anything tempting that has a Human smell? There are so many things, even BF field researchers with good intentions, that may drive the creatures farther into more remote, ever more difficult, terrain. And with fewer numbers. I think it to be a severely dire situation in which there is little to do in the way of remedying the issue. The point I'm making is this: 4 hours ago, norseman said: Maybe they need our help right now!? I 100% agree with this. We have to prove these creatures exist and we need to do it soon. No one is going to be dragging one in. The ONLY near-future hope they have is e-DNA. We need to find a way to get people out there to take samples. Does anyone feel as strongly about this as I do? Strong enough to form a consensus to at least look into it? I have emailed Peter Byrne. I haven't heard back. Maybe the email address is no longer valid? But he is a member of the Academy of Applied Sciences. The Academy was located in Boston but now it is in Concord, NH. I wrote an email to them this past Friday to tell them my thoughts and ideas for doing e-DNA testing for this creature by working through university vertebrate zoology departments. As you can see, I DON'T QUIT! I wish so fervently that others would do this kind of thing so I don't feel like I'm the only one who feels so strongly about the survival of these creatures that I take action. If anyone thinks Sasquatch is real then PLEASE, PLEASE, do something for it's survival. And not just Sasquatch either. It's for ourselves as well since I consider Sasquatch to be the canary in our mine. Edited January 4, 2020 by hiflier
norseman Posted January 4, 2020 Admin Posted January 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, hiflier said: Speculating here by linking my thoughts on corporate/government collusion in their demise. The paragraph I quoted led me to think of baiting the one you encountered with poisoned salmon filet. I am one of several here who think the populations are in decline. Barring hit squads and reduction of habit and other pressures, could poisoning be an option since officially chasing them down and shooting them has been a failure? We don't find the bodies because of the usual suspected reasons I suppose. And maybe in some instances the poison used isn't powerful enough for a creature that size and they just get sick. It could be enough of a deterrent to stay away from anything tempting that has a Human smell? There are so many things, even BF field researchers with good intentions, that may drive the creatures farther into more remote, ever more difficult, terrain. And with fewer numbers. I think it to be a severely dire situation in which there is little to do in the way of remedying the issue. The point I'm making is this: I 100% agree with this. We have to prove these creatures exist and we need to do it soon. No one is going to be dragging one in. The ONLY near-future hope they have is e-DNA. We need to find a way to get people out there to take samples. Does anyone feel as strongly about this as I do? Strong enough to form a consensus to at least look into it? I have emailed Peter Byrne. I haven't heard back. Maybe the email address is no longer valid? But he is a member of the Academy of Applied Sciences. The Academy was located in Boston but now it is in Concord, NH. I wrote an email to them this past Friday to tell them my thoughts and ideas for doing e-DNA testing for this creature by working through university vertebrate zoology departments. As you can see, I DON'T QUIT! I wish so fervently that others would do this kind of thing so I don't feel like I'm the only one who feels so strongly about the survival of these creatures that I take action. If anyone thinks Sasquatch is real then PLEASE, PLEASE, do something for it's survival. And not just Sasquatch either. It's for ourselves as well since I consider Sasquatch to be the canary in our mine. Why is no one going to be dragging one in?
wiiawiwb Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 2 hours ago, NathanFooter said: Reports continue but nearly to the degree that we note from the 70's, 80's and 90's. There are less and less good tracks being found over the past 20 years, the BFRO gets a very strong stream of reports from 1970 to 1999 to this day but incoming new reports are becoming fewer I would say. We can also not that there are some really interesting tracks that suggest some individuals have fewer digits than normal, this may also suggest inbreeding because a lack of available partners within a given territory. We can also consider the prevalence and comfort level for the subject is very high this day and age, the only apposing point maybe that hunting participation rates are very low when compared to that time frame. I have been looking into reports and occurrence frequency for some time now and I would strongly suggest that the species is not fairing well, we already are a massive disease risk for these animals I would think. Several of the great apes we interact regularly with have fallen to human disease transfer. At this time we put out trash cans, dumpsters and waste products out at easy reach and some data even suggests that some of these animals take advantage of these resources. I personally have interacted with several individuals with some severe chest congestion and breathing issues, in 2015 I had one particular event with an animal at about 25 feet or so from my tent for about 10 minutes screaming, growling and jabbering. I could hear it struggling to draw and exhale and the creature frequently coughed and hacked during the tantrum/display. Could have been simply a bad chest cold or something worse, there was evidence at this very location that someone had been attempting to feed something on a regular basis. We located 11 old salmon fillet bags of various brands both on top of the ground and additional in the soil under the very tree the animal was pacing beneath. This took place during the beginning of the Falcon Project, when we spent several weeks together for team bonding and field routine exercises in preparation for our deployment. These creatures are doomed to extinction in my opinion if we do not step in an preserve ranges, educate the general public and react to what risks we currently pose ranging from the backyard to the remote trail campsite. There is nothing to suggest they are doing well at this time unfortunately. A few things. The BFRO did not get a stream of reports from 1970 to 1999. It wasn't founded until 1995. Also, who's to say that BFRO activity is a bell weather from which conclusions can be drawn? Has Finding Bigfoot helped or hurt their reputation? Garbage and trash will be taken by sasquatches even if proven to exist. That issue hasn't stopped grizzly from marauding human sites. If human contamination comes from garbage, it will be a problem after discovery as well. It's a non sequitur. The less-than-five-toed argument I can't comment on as I have never seen statistics. Can you cite anything that shows that? In that regard, people years ago may not have thought to report such finds as the information out there about this subject was limited. Your experience may very well indicate that the sasquatch(es) you interacted with had a bronchial issue. I don't think you can draw conclusions about them across the continent. Others have reported hearing incredibly loud and bellowing screams that shook them to their toes which would not be possible with a bronchial issue. I may be wrong but I think they are doing just fine and will continue to say my little prayer they are never formally discovered and things continue just as they are.
hiflier Posted January 4, 2020 Posted January 4, 2020 Go ahead, Norseman, go ahead, just ignore everything else I said. If that's all you're going to comment on then get out there and shoot one and don't come back until you do. Or else just tell me all your gun threads and talk are less than worthless. You talk science but are really only about the crosshairs and how many grains it gonna take. Sorry, bud, I don't like talking like this any more than anyone wants to see me talking like this. And I know that I tick people off with my "program" for discovery of Bigfoot's existence. I only hope you can understand my passion for saving this creature, AND the environment from any more pressure than they are already under. I get miffed when no one, not just you, but NO ONE does anything beyond thinking that proof of existence has to wait until one gets shot to death. It DOESN'T HAVE TO WAIT! Finding a dead one will do, of course, but in the mean time science needs to get on this issue. If no one's doing anything about trying to get science involved with the technology they have now? I have to wonder how much of what goes in here is virtually pointless. I get pissed when no one gets back on me on emails. And I apologize for taking it out on the Forum but doesn't anyone think things could be different if more people reached out to the institutions and people in them who could really help the situation? We HAVE to get science involved. There is no good reason anymore not to.
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