MIB Posted April 9, 2020 Moderator Posted April 9, 2020 Interesting on the .454 lockup. Mine is just the opposite, it handles the max loads .. factory and handload .. very reliably. When I try to download it, pressure drops, powder doesn't burn as cleanly, and it will tie up the cylinder. It is probably the tightest handgun I've ever owned though. Meh, didn't buy a .454 for reduced loads, if less-than-454 is what I want, I have a couple .44 magnums. 1 hour ago, RedHawk454 said: which is 624 lbs of muzzle energy which has more kinetic energy then run-of-the mill .357 magnum around (normal .357 is like 550 lbs of muzzle energy) so with a Glock 20 you are more or less firing 15-16 rounds of .41 magnum No, not unless you are substantially downloading the .41. I was getting about 920 FPE out of mine, so about 45% more than your 10mm per shot. ... just to correct the record. MIB PS, for whatever it's worth, I would not want to run a 550 FPE .357 load out of my S&W M60. It'd be ok in an L or N frame S&W or medium / large frame Ruger, but that's bad juju in a very light gun.
Airdale Posted April 9, 2020 Posted April 9, 2020 I only fired them from my 4" Security-Six and my 12" Ranchhand. Haven't chronoed the Ruger but from the Rossi they average 1,820 for a five shot group; the bullets are 160 Gr. hard cast, copper electro plated semi-wadcutters. Just checked Buffalo Bore's website and they state that their heaviest .357 loads, to include a 200 Gr., can be fired in any modern revolver. They don't recommend the scandium or titanium frame guns only because the stiff recoil may cause the bullets to break crimp and could jam the cylinder. Here is the spec. on their 180 Gr. load: BUFFALO BORE HEAVY 357 MAG OUTDOORSMAN 180 gr. Hard Cast LFN-GC - (1,400 fps/M.E. 783 ft. lbs.) The Ranchhand gives me an average 1,656 fps for five rounds of that load and Buffalo Bore gets 1,851 fps from an 18.5" Marlin 1894. As with most firearms related subjects there are too many variables to make hard and fast rules. My rule of thumb is to carry the heaviest load with best penetration that I can shoot with repeatable accuracy from the handgun I'm most familiar with. If I have reason to believe that combination is insufficient, I'll either stay home or pack the M-1A SOCOM 16.
wiiawiwb Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 19 hours ago, RedHawk454 said: the 500 Magnum is a great sidearm if you can handle the trigger in double action ive never shot a 500 Magnum, but I have shot hot .454 Casull cartridges and they're difficult to handle using the trigger in double action in the past 2 years ive switched to a Glock 20 10MM Auto 16 rounds of 10MM Auto will do more dmaage than 6 shots of any magnum. JMO ymmv I've got a Glock 40 MOS (10mm) which is a long-slide version of the Glock 20. The 10mm is a fantastic woods gun. I bring the Glock 40 MOS when I'm sasquatching with another person. When alone, and know I can't rely on backup, I bring the Ruger Toklat. If I can only get one shot off, I want it to count. Jerry Miculek has a natural advantage. His hands are absolutely massive and he can grip a 44 magnum like I grip a Kimber Micro. That helps. 1
RedHawk454 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 18 hours ago, MIB said: Interesting on the .454 lockup. Mine is just the opposite, it handles the max loads .. factory and handload .. very reliably. When I try to download it, pressure drops, powder doesn't burn as cleanly, and it will tie up the cylinder. It is probably the tightest handgun I've ever owned though. Meh, didn't buy a .454 for reduced loads, if less-than-454 is what I want, I have a couple .44 magnums. No, not unless you are substantially downloading the .41. I was getting about 920 FPE out of mine, so about 45% more than your 10mm per shot. ... just to correct the record. MIB PS, for whatever it's worth, I would not want to run a 550 FPE .357 load out of my S&W M60. It'd be ok in an L or N frame S&W or medium / large frame Ruger, but that's bad juju in a very light gun. I dont know why mine would lock up with hot loads 920 FPS out of a .41, what size bullet? 5 hours ago, wiiawiwb said: I've got a Glock 40 MOS (10mm) which is a long-slide version of the Glock 20. The 10mm is a fantastic woods gun. I bring the Glock 40 MOS when I'm sasquatching with another person. When alone, and know I can't rely on backup, I bring the Ruger Toklat. If I can only get one shot off, I want it to count. Jerry Miculek has a natural advantage. His hands are absolutely massive and he can grip a 44 magnum like I grip a Kimber Micro. That helps. I like revolvers too much but being realistic, the Glock 20/29/40 is the best sidearm for the woods. jmo, ymmv
gigantor Posted April 10, 2020 Admin Posted April 10, 2020 57 minutes ago, RedHawk454 said: I dont know why mine would lock up with hot loads
Kiwakwe Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, RedHawk454 said: 920 FPS out of a .41, what size bullet? I assume that is FPE, foot ponds energy...
MIB Posted April 10, 2020 Moderator Posted April 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, RedHawk454 said: I dont know why mine would lock up with hot loads Quote 920 FPS out of a .41, what size bullet? Not FPS, FPE. That would be 0.410 inch. Or did you mean weight? 210 grains. My load was giving me 1410 FPS from a 4-5/8" barrel for 926 FPE .. average .. and 1460 FPS for 993 FPE from a 6-1/2" barrel. Hodgdon shows over 1600 FPS and over 1200 FPE for the same load. Obviously that's a pretty far step beyond the 10mm despite what 10mm fans want to claim. I actually have a 10mm but mine is in a Ruger Blackhawk ... great little cartridge when kept in context. Quote I like revolvers too much but being realistic, the Glock 20/29/40 is the best sidearm for the woods. jmo, ymmv I can't make the 10mm Glocks work for me. I've gone in probably a dozen times with the cash in my pocket and come back out with out the gun. Every time I handle one, I just ... fail. The 20 and 40 grip frames are considerably too large for my hands. The 29 is simultaneously too big around yet too short, I can't get a firm grip on it. Sigh. I think with my very average hand size, I'm stuck with single stack magazines, so in 10mm, I'm stuck to a 1911 and only 8 cartridges in the magazine. I can see how it might work different for someone else but for me the reduction in power plus the guns not fitting my hands is a show stopper. 10mm would be a fun range toy but not a viable woods option for me. MIB PS: I should add, just for clarity, I'm using the .41 mag for comparison because you did. I sold my .41s years ago and went back to .44s. My standard carry load is a 250 grain SWC loafing along at 1350 fps for just over 1000 FPE. That's from 2 guns, 4" and 4-5/8" barrels. Edited April 10, 2020 by MIB
Huntster Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 2 hours ago, MIB said: .......10mm would be a fun range toy but not a viable woods option for me......... My hands are similar to yours. I have wide palms, but short, stubby fingers. I never liked double stacked semi-autos, hated the "crunch'n'ticker" triggers on older double action semi-autos, and loved the custom rubber grips available for revolvers. But the striker trigger design, bottom rails, and easily attached lights changed all that for me for outdoor carry. I'll live with the fat grips for the 16 round capacity. And while the 10mm energy is between that of the 357mag and 41mag, the complete lack of reloading need (even though a reload is quick and easy) makes up for that in my opinion. I'll shoot single stack 9mm weapons at the range, and carry the Glock 20 in the field during bear season. But my snowmobile gun remains the S&W 629. It rides in a flap holster on the handlebars. Six rounds of 240 grain 44 mag is plenty for aggressive moose, and the bears are asleep...........usually. 1
norseman Posted April 10, 2020 Admin Posted April 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Huntster said: My hands are similar to yours. I have wide palms, but short, stubby fingers. I never liked double stacked semi-autos, hated the "crunch'n'ticker" triggers on older double action semi-autos, and loved the custom rubber grips available for revolvers. But the striker trigger design, bottom rails, and easily attached lights changed all that for me for outdoor carry. I'll live with the fat grips for the 16 round capacity. And while the 10mm energy is between that of the 357mag and 41mag, the complete lack of reloading need (even though a reload is quick and easy) makes up for that in my opinion. I'll shoot single stack 9mm weapons at the range, and carry the Glock 20 in the field during bear season. But my snowmobile gun remains the S&W 629. It rides in a flap holster on the handlebars. Six rounds of 240 grain 44 mag is plenty for aggressive moose, and the bears are asleep...........usually. My son was showing me a video of a guy in Alaska with his face ripped off by a Bear. Finally got her stopped somehow. He is giving a video interview....tough hombre. Was on a sled in snow. At first I thought it was some gimmick. If you find the video, just a warning that it’s graphic. His face is gone.
Huntster Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 Can't seem to find that one. I saw another where a sow tore a guys nose and upper lip off after he walked up to the elk they shot the night before. There was a guy from Eagle River who got his face torn off at the Kenai River one summer several years ago. I just saw another video of some Russians hazing a bear on snowmobiles in the Kuril Islands, and the bear turned and almost got one of them. And another where a stupid Russian kicked a young bear in the ass, and the bear turned and mauled him. March and April are the months when bear trouble is possible, but you almost have to be asking for it. They hear that snowmobile coming, and they know what that means. They will try to leave........unless they're on dead meat. It's like those wolves I came across after they killed that otter. They heard me coming, and they were in overdrive headed east when I saw them. Not moose. They simply won't yield the packed trail. They'll fight.
RedHawk454 Posted April 10, 2020 Posted April 10, 2020 7 hours ago, Kiwakwe said: I assume that is FPE, foot ponds energy... I see I've never heard of muzzle/kinetic energy being referred to as FPE 7 hours ago, gigantor said: outside of the ballistics, Winchester white box HP's and remington HP's tend to jam semi autos feed jams are worse than stove pipes imo as a feed jam is usually indicative of a bad bullet profile. I have a Glock 23 that will not cycle cheap HP's the 22 will though. FMJ's are fine though.
norseman Posted April 11, 2020 Admin Posted April 11, 2020 3 hours ago, Huntster said: Can't seem to find that one. I saw another where a sow tore a guys nose and upper lip off after he walked up to the elk they shot the night before. There was a guy from Eagle River who got his face torn off at the Kenai River one summer several years ago. I just saw another video of some Russians hazing a bear on snowmobiles in the Kuril Islands, and the bear turned and almost got one of them. And another where a stupid Russian kicked a young bear in the ass, and the bear turned and mauled him. March and April are the months when bear trouble is possible, but you almost have to be asking for it. They hear that snowmobile coming, and they know what that means. They will try to leave........unless they're on dead meat. It's like those wolves I came across after they killed that otter. They heard me coming, and they were in overdrive headed east when I saw them. Not moose. They simply won't yield the packed trail. They'll fight. I didnt find the video but found an article. Again its graphic... https://americanshootingjournal.com/man-survives-bear-attack-but-loses-face/amp/
RedHawk454 Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 We’re all gonna need bigger guns 2 hours ago, norseman said: I didnt find the video but found an article. Again its graphic... https://americanshootingjournal.com/man-survives-bear-attack-but-loses-face/amp/ I came across That one a couple years ago. That stuff is terrifying 1
Airdale Posted April 11, 2020 Posted April 11, 2020 14 hours ago, RedHawk454 said: I dont know why mine would lock up with hot loads Without knowing wheather you were shooting factory ammo or hand loads, here are some things that might cause an otherwise functional revolver to lock up with "hot" loads. I'm going to assume that there were no case head seperations because # 1, they are rare with modern components and # 2, they would have been obvious when fired and when you eventually worked the cylinder free and ejected the cases. One item that can lock up a revolver and generally results from too hot a handload, is the primer backing or flowing out of the primer pocket and flattening against the inner surface of the recoil shield. The displaced primer could hang up and prevent the cylinder from going into battery. When working up hand loads, a flattened primer is likely, hopefully, the first sign that the load is developing excessive pressure and you need to back off a bit. The second item that comes to mind that can lock up a revolver cylinder is if a bullet in another chamber breaks free of the case mouth crimp under recoil and moves forward increasing Cartridge Overall Length (COL). If the bullet moves forward enough that the tip projects beyond the chamber mouth it can hang up on the edge of the forcing cone (the rear portion of the barrel that projects through the frame), preventing the cylinder from going into battery. The smaller the gap between the front of the cylinder and the forcing cone, the easier this problem could happen with minimal bullet creep. This is more likely to be a problem with hand loads if care isn't taken to ensure a proper crimp adjustment in the seating die, especially if pushing the performance envelope of the cartridge. The tighter the tolerances of your individual revolver, the less deviation from nominal cartridge dimensions it will take to lock it up. These are the two things that come to mind and there are likely others, so please, anyone chime in with additions! 2
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