southernyahoo Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 @SY, can you divulge what claims you are pursuing? There is atleast one Wildlife Biologist's sighting in the mix of perhaps a dozen sighting claims in association with the place where my sample was aquired. That Biologist may visit here regularly. I think it would be cool for him to have this published DNA from there, and maybe he could be more open about his sighting afterwards. We'll just have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 There appears to be a pattern to scams and hoaxes. I have the proof. I am not releasing it now. I will be releasing in the future. The release date has been postponed. Hype begins to build. Unsupported claims begin to surface from people in the know. Anyone remember Coleman's "Georgia Gorilla will shock the world." As things currently stand in the world of Bigfoot, we have three things that are the definitive proof of bf: The Sierra Kills (body), the Erickson Project (hours of high quality video), Ketchum Paper (DNA paper to be published in Major Journal). I don't believe that the Ketchum matter is a hoax. It does, however, follow the pattern above. The pattern of prior let downs compared to the current situation with Dr. Ketchum's paper may on the surface appear to be similar. However, the big difference between them is that none of the prior efforts brought together a team of Phd's to conduct DNA research, write a scholarly paper, and submit it to a journal for peer review. Certainly the Georgia boys didn't do that. IMHO the pattern of hoaxing is a couple of folks cooking up a scheme and then calling a press conference or in some way announcing to the world they have something great, with delays along the way, building to intense media scrutiny (or BF world scrutiny) without producing anything of substance. The "pattern" of Dr. Ketchum's effort was to begin with DNA analysis submitted by individual BF researchers that they paid for, then becoming interested when anomalous DNA was found and then Dr. Ketchum requesting more samples from the BF community, getting more samples, running more tests, etc. THEN having people within the study team outing the work without her consent before the research was finished or a paper written, then having to respond to the clamorous BF community and accusations of a big cover up or hoax effort. Apples and oranges IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest vilnoori Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 Some reporter asks couild it be bigfoot. The local official says "well I could see how someone would think that animal was bigfoot but I will leave it up to the experts to say what it is. The head of the state DNR will be flabbergasted and contact the nearest zoo and maybe a primatologist or someone similar from the closest university. Geesh all someone has to do is take a snapshot of the feet with his or her cell phone. No expert required! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Particle Noun Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 BFSleuth, Thanks for that. +1. I think it's fairly lazy to suggest that the Ketchum report is following the 'pattern' of past bigfoot hoaxes, which seems to be a growing meme in a part of the skeptic circle. There are superficial similarities, but I think the differences are much more striking. I can anticipate responses such as "how do you know she has multiple PHD's on the paper, and how do you even know there IS a paper?" The only answer to that question is that, if neither of those things are true, then Dr. Ketchum and others involved in the study have been straight out lying. I find that unlikely. It is far easier for a small team of one or two people to perpetrate a hoax following the 'usual road', but in this instance, there is far more to this than there has been to anything before in the bigfoot world, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 . The part that boggles my mind, is how the some in the pro-bigfoot crowd, still think, after all of the hoaxes, shams, and shenanigans, that the next one is real. Is there a point where those people will stawrt saying "Oh you have some bigfoot DNA? I'll just sit over here until you show me the paper."? or "Oh, you have a Bigfoot in a freezer?, I'll just sit and wait while you show me the results of the inspection." If there was one of these claims that panned out, then I could see your optimism, however, there has not been one claim, that has ever proven true. In your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 One event doesn't make a pattern. What are all the other hoaxing events that have established this pattern? And by the way, I wouldn't be too upset if Melba Ketchum follows the Georgia Boys pattern. They did actually end up releasing their evidence. It just was garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiefoot Posted May 1, 2012 Share Posted May 1, 2012 (edited) Drew, That type of reasoning is a logical fallacy. Appeal to probability is a logical fallacy, often used in conjunction with other fallacies. It assumes that because something could happen, it is inevitable that it will happen. Did Dr. Ketchum or any of her associates have anything to do with any of the hoaxes mentioned? There is no linkage. Edited May 1, 2012 by indiefoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Fallacy? Seems more like probability. PGF, Skookum Cast, LMS, Pine Ridge, Norway House, Cave Junction, Teslen, Memorial Day footage, Kentucky pancake video, New York bigfoot baby video, Snelgrove Lake, Bindernagel's sighting, Sierra Sounds, Bigfoot in a freezer, The 'Russian Expedition' of 2011, bigfoot handprint on a truck, Ivan Marx footage, Johor Bigfoot, Mary Green/Janice Coy farce, Japanese Yeti expedition, Myakka Skunk Ape pictures, Mike Green's Thermal Zagnut Bigfoot, Jacob's photo, Minnesota Iceman, Bobby Clarke's Manitoba bigfoot video, Bigfoot toenail, Prince Edward Island footage, bigfoot shot and killed, track size distribution paper/NASI report, Bigfoot hand in a jar, analysis by Bill Munns/Sweaty Yeti, Hairy Man Pictographs, and crypto-linguist presentations... I'm sure I missed a few, but which of these, or any other claim regarding bigfoot, have been proven true? It ain't exactly a stellar track record. RayG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Fallacy? Seems more like probability. PGF, Skookum Cast, LMS, Pine Ridge, Norway House, Cave Junction, Teslen, Memorial Day footage, Kentucky pancake video, New York bigfoot baby video, Snelgrove Lake, Bindernagel's sighting, Sierra Sounds, Bigfoot in a freezer, The 'Russian Expedition' of 2011, bigfoot handprint on a truck, Ivan Marx footage, Johor Bigfoot, Mary Green/Janice Coy farce, Japanese Yeti expedition, Myakka Skunk Ape pictures, Mike Green's Thermal Zagnut Bigfoot, Jacob's photo, Minnesota Iceman, Bobby Clarke's Manitoba bigfoot video, Bigfoot toenail, Prince Edward Island footage, bigfoot shot and killed, track size distribution paper/NASI report, Bigfoot hand in a jar, analysis by Bill Munns/Sweaty Yeti, Hairy Man Pictographs, and crypto-linguist presentations... I'm sure I missed a few, but which of these, or any other claim regarding bigfoot, have been proven true? It ain't exactly a stellar track record. RayG Yeh none are proven, but odds are at the very least several were real. Many can vouch for the pgf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Several were real? Which ones? Who gets to choose which ones are real, and how does one arrive at that conclusion? Vouching for something means very little to science, or to anyone pursuing the truth. And truth is, none of those examples have proven anything. All it takes is for one, just one to be proven real. Odds are, that should have happened, but it hasn't. Maybe the Ketchum paper will change that, but until/unless she gets something published, statistically speaking, I may as well put all my eggs in the basket of any of the previous historical failures. RayG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 It's very likely a few were real. It's understandable that all could have been hoaxes, but it's not something I would bet on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest slimwitless Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Fallacy? Seems more like probability. PGF, Skookum Cast, LMS, Pine Ridge, Norway House, Cave Junction, Teslen, Memorial Day footage, Kentucky pancake video, New York bigfoot baby video, Snelgrove Lake, Bindernagel's sighting, Sierra Sounds, Bigfoot in a freezer, The 'Russian Expedition' of 2011, bigfoot handprint on a truck, Ivan Marx footage, Johor Bigfoot, Mary Green/Janice Coy farce, Japanese Yeti expedition, Myakka Skunk Ape pictures, Mike Green's Thermal Zagnut Bigfoot, Jacob's photo, Minnesota Iceman, Bobby Clarke's Manitoba bigfoot video, Bigfoot toenail, Prince Edward Island footage, bigfoot shot and killed, track size distribution paper/NASI report, Bigfoot hand in a jar, analysis by Bill Munns/Sweaty Yeti, Hairy Man Pictographs, and crypto-linguist presentations... I'm sure I missed a few, but which of these, or any other claim regarding bigfoot, have been proven true? It ain't exactly a stellar track record. RayG Most of those examples simply can't be proven (even if they are true). They're based on eyewitness accounts, inconclusive data or supposition. That's why I'm interested in this DNA thing. It's a whole different ballgame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Fallacy? Seems more like probability. PGF, Skookum Cast, LMS, Pine Ridge, Norway House, Cave Junction, Teslen, Memorial Day footage, Kentucky pancake video, New York bigfoot baby video, Snelgrove Lake, Bindernagel's sighting, Sierra Sounds, Bigfoot in a freezer, The 'Russian Expedition' of 2011, bigfoot handprint on a truck, Ivan Marx footage, Johor Bigfoot, Mary Green/Janice Coy farce, Japanese Yeti expedition, Myakka Skunk Ape pictures, Mike Green's Thermal Zagnut Bigfoot, Jacob's photo, Minnesota Iceman, Bobby Clarke's Manitoba bigfoot video, Bigfoot toenail, Prince Edward Island footage, bigfoot shot and killed, track size distribution paper/NASI report, Bigfoot hand in a jar, analysis by Bill Munns/Sweaty Yeti, Hairy Man Pictographs, and crypto-linguist presentations... I'm sure I missed a few, but which of these, or any other claim regarding bigfoot, have been proven true? It ain't exactly a stellar track record. I think you've lumped quite a hodge podge of examples in your list. I hope you aren't trying to equate a DNA research paper authored by several Phd's that have probably spent hundreds if not thousands of hours on the research and writing and submission for peer review to the work of a couple hoaxers with a gorilla suit in a freezer. You also include the Munns Report. Are you really classifying the work of Bill Munns as a hoax? He has his data set out there for review by anyone, and has noted it is a work in progress with additional work to be done. I'm baffled how you include this in your list of "disappointments". Listing videos as disappointments, well I can certainly understand that, as most are simply suggestive of a creature without actually showing it in detail. The hoaxes, yes those are disappointing. But then to lump the work of Bill Munns and Dr. Ketchum et al in with such a strange list of items, I'm just not sure exactly what point you are trying to make, unless this was simply venting in advance ("pre-venting") in case you might be disappointed again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incorrigible1 Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 Must agree with Sleuth. Including Mr. Munns' work, along with the reputed Dr. Ketchum report seems overly pessimistic, Ray. Bill Munns, especially, has been open to criticism of his work, and so I must castigate you for including that in your list of known hoaxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest OntarioSquatch Posted May 2, 2012 Share Posted May 2, 2012 "It's a myyythhh. Not proven, therefor Dr. Ketchum is likely a hoaxer too." "Beast in a box please!" People get worried that they are getting hoaxed. So they criticize Dr. Ketchum for not being more open. It's making sense to me now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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