The Ketchum Report

[Guest]

When you can't find a single deviation that is not known in humans, and when it's best match aligns with some human haplogroup. They would be a great ape like us, but if there are no known mutations that are only found in the other non-human apes then they are pure human.

Not picking on you SY, your posts simply interest me the most. How do you have "no known mutations" and know that they would only be found in non-human apes aka humans?

[Guest Tontar]

Question. The story about the Sierra Kills has been that the two were shot and left behind. That later, weeks later, Smeja went back and only found a chunk of flesh, no bodies. That was in the interview also, if I recall correctly. Now the story is different. Bobo was on Conan saying that the steak was cut from the leg of the adult male on site, at the time of shooting. So what's the real story, or does anyone know? Sample taken at time of shooting, or found in the snow as the only remaining evidence, with no body present?

Lie detector test. Didn't Smeja take and pass a lie detector test? Which version was told?

There's also the rumors of body (bodies) taken at the time of the shooting, and that someone has it (them) on ice. Is this all just the same old thing where the story grows and mutates with each telling, or is there any chance that any of it is true.

The reason I ask is that the Smeja sample looks to be one of the most compelling and controversial samples and events. If Ketchum's and then Sykes' research uses those samples as a central part of the research, it would be nice to know the real story.

[southernyahoo]

Are you sure? I guess it depends on when she first used the word "hybrid". I'm thinking someone had a hunch that panned out. After all, why even bother with the nuDNA if your mtDNA tests kept coming back modern human?

I'm thinking a "New Contemporary Feral Hominin" would be sort of beyond a human with some mutations. I think you may be missing a key. A simple paternity test should answer "who's the Daddy" in samples from males, but species ID tests mostly go for the CO1 gene in the mitochondria. Are you familiar with results published in Paulides book "Tribal Bigfoot"?

Edited November 30, 2012 by southernyahoo

[Guest Particle Noun]

Almost everyone involved has now weighed in to say there were no bodies recovered, for what it's worth.

[Guest]

Are you sure? I guess it depends on when she first used the word "hybrid". I'm thinking someone had a hunch that panned out. After all, why even bother with the nuDNA if your mtDNA tests kept coming back modern human?

If you will remember it was that unusual mutation found in the mtDNA by Stubstad with the closest match being a human 15,000 years ago. This was in two different samples several thousand miles apart. The likelihood of it being a hoax was slim, as in a bigfoot researcher donating his own DNA. The two were found by two seperate groups who did not get along and did not communicate. That lead to the nuclear testing as best I can remember. This is where I have the problem with this.

I suspect the mtDNA was nothing unique to begin with and it sounds like they used referral labs to map the SNP's in the nuclear genome. That is appropriate if you are convinced you have a unique species in that you would be looking for variation within a known population and of course you would get confirmation across different labs mapping SNP's of the nuclear genome from this standardized test. It doesn't mean that you have a new species though if the basic premise was incorrect to start with. This is the best speculation I can come up with from a skeptical perspective but I genuinely hope I 'm wrong, like everyone else, I'll have to read the paper when it is published.

[BobbyO]

Question. The story about the Sierra Kills has been that the two were shot and left behind. That later, weeks later, Smeja went back and only found a chunk of flesh, no bodies. That was in the interview also, if I recall correctly. Now the story is different. Bobo was on Conan saying that the steak was cut from the leg of the adult male on site, at the time of shooting. So what's the real story, or does anyone know? Sample taken at time of shooting, or found in the snow as the only remaining evidence, with no body present?

Lie detector test. Didn't Smeja take and pass a lie detector test? Which version was told?

I've never heard that version, where did you hear it ?

[Rockape]

Question. The story about the Sierra Kills has been that the two were shot and left behind. That later, weeks later, Smeja went back and only found a chunk of flesh, no bodies. That was in the interview also, if I recall correctly. Now the story is different. Bobo was on Conan saying that the steak was cut from the leg of the adult male on site, at the time of shooting. So what's the real story, or does anyone know? Sample taken at time of shooting, or found in the snow as the only remaining evidence, with no body present?

Lie detector test. Didn't Smeja take and pass a lie detector test? Which version was told?

There's also the rumors of body (bodies) taken at the time of the shooting, and that someone has it (them) on ice. Is this all just the same old thing where the story grows and mutates with each telling, or is there any chance that any of it is true.

The reason I ask is that the Smeja sample looks to be one of the most compelling and controversial samples and events. If Ketchum's and then Sykes' research uses those samples as a central part of the research, it would be nice to know the real story.

I asked the same question in another thread a few weeks back Tontar and never got an answer.

I was under the impression that the "steak" came from the young one shot by Smeja. If I recall correctly the large one Smeja shot didn't die, at least immediately and got away.

And if I am correct Smeja went back at a later date to retrieve the body, and where he had buried it was snowed over, so after digging around could only come up with the "steak" which he cut from the remains.

I think Bobo, as he often does, had some of the story right and some of it wrong, but I, like yourself, would like to know for certain.

Bobby O., Bobo mentioned in the interview on the Conan show.

Edited November 30, 2012 by Rockape

[Guest COGrizzly]

it would be nice to know the real story.

Why, YES, yes it would!

[southernyahoo]

Not picking on you SY, your posts simply interest me the most. How do you have "no known mutations" and know that they would only be found in non-human apes aka humans?

You may be referring to this.

When you can't find a single deviation that is not known in humans, and when it's best match aligns with some human haplogroup. They would be a great ape like us, but if there are no known mutations that are only found in the other non-human apes then they are pure human.

I'll see If I can be more clear.

When you can't find a single deviation that is not known in humans, and when it's best match aligns with some human haplogroup.

That would mean there was no unique sequences that you couldn't find in modern human sequences in the data bases.

if there are no known mutations that are only found in the other non-human apes then they are pure human.

This would mean to say there are known regions in the genomes of non-human apes where they differ from humans. If you could not find a match in those regions to your suspect samples you wouldn't say they have Chimp, Bonobo, Gorilla , Orangatan sequences and therefore no non-human ape specific sequences.

These two scenarios put together would mean pure modern human.

[Guest slimwitless]

I'm thinking a "New Contemporary Feral Hominin" would be sort of beyond a human with some mutations. I think you may be missing a key. A simple paternity test should answer "who's the Daddy" in samples from males, but species ID tests mostly go for the CO1 gene in the mitochondria. Are you familiar with results published in Paulides book "Tribal Bigfoot"?

I took your previous post to mean you felt her conclusions didn't really change between the copyright filings and the press release. Am I confused? To me it *seems* like a big change to go from feral human with unusual DNA to hybridized hominin. Although...ha, I am going from memory on all this. I should probably go back and read what she wrote.

I haven't read "Tribal Bigfoot" but if I hear one more person recommend it, I'll probably have to order a copy. Anyone?

Edit to add: BTW, I have no problem if she did change her mind as more data became available. I saw a skeptical post from someone deriding Ketchum because she said it wasn't a hybrid early on (as if a scientist isn't allowed to change their mind). He even posted a supposedly corroborating link. Unfortunately the post was taken down by the site admin when I went back to investigate. I bet he was referring to these copyright filings though. He also brought up angel dna and the BBB ratings. I say "he" because I'm pretty sure I know who wrote it.

Edited November 30, 2012 by slimwitless

[Guest]

Dave Paulides gives his rebuttle to a bad bit of media at the aspentimes.

"

Todd, great interview, not! As the group that accumulated dozens of samples for this study, as the group that has its home miles from your paper, as the group that initiated this study, it wouldn't take a huge effort to contact us to get your facts correct.

When the media makes light of a topic, it's usually because the author doesn't have a firm grasp of the facts or, is uncomfortable with the allegation. It seems both are correct in Todd's case.

The DNA paper had some of the best labs in North America participating in the testing, with each validating the others results, hmm, Todd didn't mention this.

Dozens of specimens were contributed from throughout North America, with all hair samples being validated by a hair and fiber expert, a courtroom certified expert, hmm, Todd didn't mention that.

Bigfoot DNA has been tested in the past, five different times with each lab showing the sample as "Human." The labs claimed contamination on each event yet were unable to get to the nuclear DNA to validate their claim, Dr. Ketchum did. Where all others have failed in the last 12 years, it took a huge effort and continued success and failures to unlock the correct combination for extraction.

It is extremely frustrating dealing with people/media who seem to make fodder of others efforts and success. Granted, this research arena has had its number of hoaxes, but that doesn't give license to Todd to write a sub-par article which excludes significant facts to a soon be worldwide story. Any integrity that Mr. Hartley possessed walked out of the yard on his "Bigfeet."

David Dave Paulides.

North America Bigfoot Search.

Todd Hartley: I'm With Stupid | AspenTimes.com

www.aspentimes.com

Big news, people: We've done it! We here at “I'm..."

[ThePhaige]

How can anyone take a scientist like Dr. Ketchum seriously when she has acted anything but like a professional..... In my opinion, this is one of the reasons that "naysayers" will have plenty of rounds of ammo to fully dismiss this study and the subsequent findings. Something like this needs to be done with full and un-obscured transparency. Virtually zero weight can be put on these findings until "real" experts weigh in and agree with her conclusions.

After all this time, this study proves nothing.

Time will tell, when the study comes out. I do think Dr K has a definitive opinion of where and what the species actually is and where it falls on the tree of life. Also though It is my belief she has done proper due diligence in reference to this process and it will show in fact that what she claims in the conservative sense is accurate. Now already we have had the study and the players eviscerated by her contemporaries and much of the media. My feel is that she has presented in a very confident manner which is a tell to me that she may have a deeper ace in the hole, and wouldn't it be just something if the work is rejected and Dr K dejected only to come up with an actual body...oh man oh man this is gonna get good. Her language regarding constitutional consideration and some of the other leaked comments as well as the non-disclosures leads that she has the silver bullet and is keeping her sidearm holstered for now. Well see if I'm correct soon. Me thinks the Dr Ms and Moneymakers of the world should hope their words are sweet and tasty because soon they may have to eat them.Some of these guys remind me of that Cindi Lauper tune True Colors Oh they are shining through alright...

[Rockape]

I went back and watched the Justin Smeja interview by Ro Sahebi and it sounds like it was from the adult where the "steak" came from, so it looks like Bobo was correct. Smeja couldn't find where he left the young one, but his dog keyed on an area where he had heard a crash after shooting the adult, dug there and retrieved the "steak".

[Guest Tontar]

Ah, but didn't he say that there was no body, no remains other than that small piece of flesh? In other words, they could just pick it up and take it away, versus cutting it off from the leg like Bobo said. Bobo often has his facts wrong, maybe that is the case there. But he said pretty confidently that there was a body and that the steak was cut from the leg of the adult body.

[southernyahoo]

I took your previous post to mean you felt her conclusions didn't really change between the copyright filings and the press release. Am I confused?

You might be, her last filing was the one that contained the New Contemporary Feral Hominin, and that was before the nuDNA whole genome sequencing right? She's talking new species there.

Edited December 1, 2012 by southernyahoo