The Ketchum Report

[Guest slimwitless]

Alley is listed as a member of the NABS team, that is how he is connected. Check the NABS website unless something has changed. Paulides may have thanked him more because he is backslapping team members to keep up the pride, reinforcement, esprit-de-corps and united front more than anything else (remember he did the same thing in his textual and radio releases with Carpenter/"Joe Black", also a team-member).

Hey, it's almost "Show-Time" and "Flow-Time" and I don't just mean brew.

Yes, he is a NABs member. If you heard the Alley interview you'd think he was on Ketchum's team. (Not that anyone in the BF community has ever misrepresented themselves). He also relayed a few stories of Native American "kidnappings" by sasquatch. Just sayin' what I heard.

[Guest]

I share the frustration of so many during this current period. It has been like watching a train wreck, very painful indeed. But the nerve-steadying tonic I keep feeding myself is this: If Melba were running some sort of elaborate scam here, why would she deploy it over several years? The very glacial slowness of this process itself seems to lend it credibility. (I know a person who has a good Sasquatch photo whom Melba contacted privately back in May, saying that the journal was now asking for pictures. Now we’re six months later.) If she were truly interested in faking a breakthrough and soaking up the limelight, wouldn’t she have done so in 2010 or 2011? All the earmarks point toward a real paper with real data at a real journal, or series of journals. I have no idea why Melba has chosen to put the cart before the horse like this (the Igor justification has the hollow ring of a cover story to me), but it sure has muddied the waters terribly. Sally Ramey never would have allowed the roll-out to get off to such a disastrously shaky start. But here’s hoping that the end will eventually justify the means, and that the missteps of November will be outshone by the released results of December (or January, or February…)

Edited December 1, 2012 by Christopher Noel

[bipedalist]

Nice post Chris, and my sentiments exactly. I'd like to think Sally Ramey could have steadied the reins but somehow if it was a planful leak, it is an underlying symptom of something that doesn't ring quite true as you say (but maybe that tells us more about Sally and less about the study for sure). Not sure how much to read into it, and the optimistic approach toward real news with real findings uncovering the unknown is how I will choose to view it until knocked completely in the ditch.

Edited December 1, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest]

Yep, Apehuman I just came here to post the article written by Bart. It does not make me feel good about this whole thing.

http://bigfooteviden...s-evidence.html

First, he's a "Moneymaker Man" (BFRO member), and the BFRO's official position has been made quite clear by Matt.

Second, he gives virtually no substantive support to his opinions. It's just a bunch of "Nuh-uh!" and "shaming" talk.

[Guest VioletX]

I share the frustration of so many during this current period. It has been like watching a train wreck, very painful indeed. But the nerve-steadying tonic I keep feeding myself is this: If Melba were running some sort of elaborate scam here, why would she deploy it over several years? The very glacial slowness of this process itself seems to lend it credibility. (I know a person who has a good Sasquatch photo whom Melba contacted privately back in May, saying that the journal was now asking for pictures. Now we’re six months later.) If she were truly interested in faking a breakthrough and soaking up the limelight, wouldn’t she have done so in 2010 or 2011? All the earmarks point toward a real paper with real data at a real journal, or series of journals. I have no idea why Melba has chosen to put the cart before the horse like this (the Igor justification has the hollow ring of a cover story to me), but it sure has muddied the waters terribly. Sally Ramey never would have allowed the roll-out to get off to such a disastrously shaky start. But here’s hoping that the end will eventually justify the means, and that the missteps of November will be outshone by the released results of December (or January, or February…)

Apparently a (now former) member of Melba's team gave Bursev either the direction or impetus, (not sure of the exact event that led to it), to release the paper. Dr K severed ties with this person, but not with Bursev who had acted in error.

Edited December 1, 2012 by VioletX

[bipedalist]

Which may confirm that there is in fact additional efforts that Mr. Burtsev will play in upcoming studies IMHO (or perhaps in the current one even).

Not to exclude the possibility that "sacrificial lambs" can always play into a scenario too.

Confidential sources or publically available ones VX?

Edited December 1, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest slimwitless]

Yep, Apehuman I just came here to post the article written by Bart. It does not make me feel good about this whole thing.

Derek Randles posted on FB that he supports Ketchum 100%. That has to make for an interesting dynamic in the OP. Bart says there will be a problem if Ketchum's results don't match theirs; that's interesting because none of the rumors (yeah, yeah, yeah) and even Smeja's brief comment in the recent interview are inconsistent with what she's claiming. I'm also perplexed he hasn't tested the non-circumstantial evidence on boots yet. Come on, fellas.

Second, he gives virtually no substantive support to his opinions. It's just a bunch of "Nuh-uh!" and "shaming" talk.

I can't pretend to know why he feels the way he does. Ketchum has Randles and Paulides convinced the paper is on the brink of publication. Bart seems to doubt it will ever come out. Why the disconnect? Don't these guys talk?

Edited December 1, 2012 by slimwitless

[Guest VioletX]

Which may confirm that there is in fact additional efforts that Mr. Burtsev will play in upcoming studies IMHO (or perhaps in the current one even).

Not to exclude the possibility that "sacrificial lambs" can always play into a scenario too.

Confidential sources or publically available ones VX?

From Robin Lynn, she has told Sas. Pres. members to feel free to post some of the rumors and speculation that need clarification. That was one of the questions that was asked. She does not mind us sharing the info. but I am not sure if I will share the quote since the group is supposedly private.

[Guest]

Yeah, Slimwitness I don't get it. From everything I've heard and read from and about Derek and Bart I think they are both straight up and level headed guys. I don't know how they could be thinking so differently, especially when they both seem to have inside information. I know they are good friends so they have had to of discussed it.

I'm with you on the lack of testing the blood on the boots too. When I read that they haven't tested that yet I couldn't believe it. How is that even possible? I guess the results they had on the flesh sample told them all they wanted to know so they didn't test it, but I can't imagine that they wouldn't test the bloody boots as soon as possible. The blood was from the juvenile and the flesh was from the adult so that is even more of a reason to test it.

[bipedalist]

From Robin Lynn, she has told Sas. Pres. members to feel free to post some of the rumors and speculation that need clarification. That was one of the questions that was asked. She does not mind us sharing the info. but I am not sure if I will share the quote since the group is supposedly private.

I would be careful with a private group leak for sure. Nonspecific if you want to stay a member. LOL

[Guest]

I might be wrong about this but It looks to me, in just observing the pro-Ketchum speak and anti-Ketchum speak within the BF community, that it's divided down BFRO lines. Those who have an association with the BFRO are coming out against her with an almost unsettling verve. Those outside of the organization seem a bit more tolerant of the current situation. Am I reading that wrong?

BTW - I've read some of Moneymaker's tweets, and he's being a bit disingenuous when he says he was the first to tell the world the GA Bigfoot in a freezer was a hoax. I don't recall any reputable person in the BF community supporting the GA boys' claims. In fact, I saw a number of people pointing out they have a history of idiotic behavior via their Youtube channel.

If this is a hoax by Ketchum, it is the most time consuming and expensive hoax I've seen with little hope of surviving real scrutiny. If this thing doesn't pass muster, it's more likely she's incompetent. Here's hoping she's not.

[Guest UPs]

When I first read some of the more mainstream news articles it was obvious they were making a mockery of her preliminary report and of course it pissed me off, but I should have expected this response from the media as further fallout of the GA hoax. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. This was certain to happen when it was released without any peer reviewed paper to give it credibility.

Someone earlier mentioned Paulides book called Tribal Bigfoot and in that book, there were many sketches done by a LEO artist and to me, all of them had a distinct NA look in their features. At the time that I read it, I believed this was a result of the witnesses and artist all being NA. If these sketches are accurate and bf is a hybrid capable of breeding with humans, is it reasonable to think that the difference in descriptions from completely separate areas is the result of breeding with the local human population and not the witnesses own bias? We have heard NA lore of bf kidnapping human women with the intent of raping them (breeding) and this would be the only way that I see the hybrid theory work. If that is the case, it would also explain the differences in description from areas further apart from one another and not just a witness bias as I previously thought and I would hope the DNA would show this.

[Guest slimwitless]

If this is a hoax by Ketchum, it is the most time consuming and expensive hoax I've seen with little hope of surviving real scrutiny. If this thing doesn't pass muster, it's more likely she's incompetent. Here's hoping she's not.

I agree and that's why it's so frustrating. If she's out of her element, the paper wouldn't be in peer review much less close to publication. And yet if her claims of peer review are false, it means hoax. It's hard to reconcile. Either what started as a real study (Stubstad told me he was author #6 at one time) somehow collapsed under it's own weight and made an abrupt u-turn into Biscardiville or, against all odds, she has the goods.

Edit to add: I guess a third option is that the journal in question is the first printed edition of Squatchin'.

Edited December 1, 2012 by slimwitless

[Guest TH68]

I think it was brilliant on the part of Dr. Ketchum to require NDA's from everyone and to keep everything on the low-low for as long as she did. This maintained the status quo of the bigfoot world being perceived as a bunch of crazies by the mainstream media. As a result, she was able to complete her work. As is want to happen, unforeseen circumstances occurred, not the least of which was the Sierra Kills. Fast forward to today and while we are all on the edge of our seats waiting for the outcome, we can clearly see what is already happening. The disinformation campaign begun awhile ago is in full swing. Contamination invalidates the result! The BBB rating indicates Dr. Ketchum is unreliable! BFRO didn't believe Biscardi and the body hoax, so don't believe Dr. Ketchum 'cause we say so! Newspapers pick up on the AP feed and publish inane articles ridiculing the concept of bigfoot. TV news treats it tongue in cheek. Even the name bigfoot is ridiculous! Hybridization?. Then the Tabloid headlines "I was Bigfoot's Love Slave" are true!

Just think back to the past and how the mainstream media signed on to other disinformation campaigns. The Tonkin Gulf Incident and JFK and the single bullet being the most obvious examples. My most fervent wish is that Jusitn Smeja is smarter than we all think and had the foresight to take the little one's body, stash it in the back of his pickup, preserve it in a safe place and keep his mouth shut about it until the time is right.

In any event, now it is too late for anyone or anything to prevent information in the form of Dr. Ketchum's DNA analysis from getting out to the public. Surely there was influence on certain journals not to publish. But now it is too late and it will be published soon, just as Dr. Ketchum said. Now that the fiscal cliff and the Middle East are all anyone is really concerned with (and we should be) existence of Sasquatch (and its variations) will come out as fact because those that have suppressed this information for decades are either all dead, or buried so deep in the bureaucracy that no one knows about them or cares anymore. I have no inside info. JMHO. Stay strong Dr. Ketchum. You are a hero.

[Guest crabshack]

Dr. Ketchum seems confidant, professional and to the point in the interviews she gave.

Personally I believe the peer review is complete and has been accepted. Dr Bursev was allowed to make his statement because the findings are a shock to the world, and the Bigfoot community. But mostly to get people talking and thinking before the journal publishes.

Edited December 1, 2012 by crabshack