Guest Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 A scary monster that is, according to the killer, between 240-300 feet away, waving it's arms, in a "sign of surrender". Ok, lets say he was traumatized enough by the "monster" to shoot it, even though it was that far away, "trying to surrender", & his driver was telling him not to. But what about the two little babies, running around, talking to each other, looking for the adult? He didn't even claim to be afraid of them. He had 15 minutes to think about what he had done, but still, "I keep deciding that I’m going to shoot one of the little ones". I don't see how he can claim that they were monsters, too. Precisely.
Guest Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 There are a few things I'd like to say on this thread. I know this event is really hard to swallow, and to believe. When Justin first told me this account my emotions were all over the place. I was heart broken, but also excited because of what we might be able to learn from it. It was a very tough decision to get involved or not get involved. I was honestly taken back and upset, and it took a couple weeks to decide if we were going to commit to working with him. First I had to figure out if I believed him. When I really started to believe him it hit home hard, and then it was even tougher to process. The last thing I ever want to see is one of these creatures hurt. I have massive respect for them. Then, as I got to know Justin better, I realized that he truly felt horrible about what went down. People can say what they want, but if he could hit the rewind button, he would not have shot knowing what he knows now. I think it takes a lot of courage to stand up and tell his story without pulling any punches. A lot of people would not have that courage. It's really easy to say, wow, I would have done all this differently, but you don't know what you'd do unless you found yourself in the same situation. I'm not trying to make excuses for him at all, I just think people are very quick to judge, especially when they haven't walked in those shoes. When I first met him face to face I was very impressed with his outdoor knowledge, his friendly demeanor and willingness to learn. He has since gotten very involved with research and is an active member of the Olympic Project. He is my friend and I will stand behind him. That being said, I can also say I wish this never would have happened. That's the Gods honest truth. The event still turns my stomach. There is another thing I'd like to clear up. Justin has signed an NDA. That NDA states that he can not speak about the DNA results. The NDA is with Melba Ketchum. That is the only NDA he has signed. Justin is his own man and we are not making any decisions for him. I'll give him advise from time to time but that's it. I've gotten pretty defensive from time to time on this forum with some of the members, and for that I'd like to apologize. I know this story makes some people very upset, and they have every right to be upset. I probably haven't handled some of my posts very well. I'll try to do better. Hope everyone has a happy New Year. DR
Guest Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Great to hear from you, Derek. I respect you for coming forward in this context and standing behind Justin.
Guest magic genius Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 i went thru a short phase when i was 15 . after i took up fishing.. where i thought that hunting was something ok.. .. i watched a friend kill a small bird with a slingshot.. and i immediatly knew i didnt like killing things.. .. its absolutly mental to go shoot animals in the forest.. i really dont care to discern if this is true or fake.. or whatever.. i have a problem with hunters in general.. leave the **** animals alone.. i went thru a short phase when i was 15 . after i took up fishing.. where i thought that hunting was something ok.. .. i watched a friend kill a small bird with a slingshot.. and i immediatly knew i didnt like killing things.. .. its absolutly mental to go shoot animals in the forest.. i really dont care to discern if this is true or fake.. or whatever.. i have a problem with hunters in general.. leave the **** animals alone..
dudeman Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) now i personally don't hunt , but there is nothing wrong with hunting as long as you harvest what you take. its only the last 100 years or so since man hasn't had to hunt. the reason i don't hunt is because i pass out at the sight of blood. if i didn't i would. Edited January 3, 2012 by dudeman
Guest Jodie Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Well after the snap judgement for shooting the adult happened there were several things that could have happened with the kids. 1. At 35-40 lbs a piece, I don't think they were old enough to survive on their own, in that case, he probably could have shot both of the kids rather than leave the other one to die- the dog found 3 areas that bothered it when they went back to get a sample. I assume the third area was the other child that subsequently died. 2. He could of abstained from shooting either kid and left them both to die. 3. He could have attempted to capture them, they probably would have died in captivity or been shot and dissected. In my eyes, after the adult was shot, there was no "win" situation here for the kids. The outcome for them would have been the same regardless of the scenario once the adult was down. What would you have done if given 15 minutes to think it through? I don't see a "right" choice here once the initial event began to unfold.
BobbyO Posted January 3, 2012 SSR Team Posted January 3, 2012 Well after the snap judgement for shooting the adult happened there were several things that could have happened with the kids. 1. At 35-40 lbs a piece, I don't think they were old enough to survive on their own, in that case, he probably could have shot both of the kids rather than leave the other one to die- the dog found 3 areas that bothered it when they went back to get a sample. I assume the third area was the other child that subsequently died. 2. He could of abstained from shooting either kid and left them both to die. 3. He could have attempted to capture them, they probably would have died in captivity or been shot and dissected. In my eyes, after the adult was shot, there was no "win" situation here for the kids. The outcome for them would have been the same regardless of the scenario once the adult was down. What would you have done if given 15 minutes to think it through? I don't see a "right" choice here once the initial event began to unfold. If i'm not mistaken the " other one " has been seen to be still in the area in the ensuing months via footprints with some bigger footprints in the vicinity too. Well after the snap judgement for shooting the adult happened there were several things that could have happened with the kids. 1. At 35-40 lbs a piece, I don't think they were old enough to survive on their own, in that case, he probably could have shot both of the kids rather than leave the other one to die- the dog found 3 areas that bothered it when they went back to get a sample. I assume the third area was the other child that subsequently died. 2. He could of abstained from shooting either kid and left them both to die. 3. He could have attempted to capture them, they probably would have died in captivity or been shot and dissected. In my eyes, after the adult was shot, there was no "win" situation here for the kids. The outcome for them would have been the same regardless of the scenario once the adult was down. What would you have done if given 15 minutes to think it through? I don't see a "right" choice here once the initial event began to unfold. If i'm not mistaken the " other one " has been seen to be still in the area in the ensuing months via footprints with some bigger footprints in the vicinity too. 2
gigantor Posted January 3, 2012 Admin Posted January 3, 2012 What a waste, if you shoot one, then get the body for goodness sake! and prove it once and for all.
Guest Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 From what I gathered, I thought the kids were near the road and fixing to step out. I think the adult was trying to stop the truck, I doubt it saw the gun. I thought that the creature stepped out into a field, and her kids followed her out. Is that not correct?
Guest Jodie Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 Do we know it's the footprints of that particular kid though? I hope it is, but what would you guess was at the third spot that bothered the dog? See, it's all guessing and trying to make the best decision in a bad situation. I don't think that was what was going through Justin's mind at the time by his account, but isn't that what everyone is judging him for? Justin wanted proof and then was either convinced by what he saw up close that he had made a bad decision, thought he would get in trouble, and caught the panic of the driver as I see it, so they left the body. Well what would any of you done after the fact of the adult being shot? I'm interested in hearing it. I think I would have been so wigged out by shooting the adult that I would have panicked and left the area immediately, even though I'm prepared to get evidence if I ever hot one with a car. I doubt the kids ability to survive would have even crossed my mind until I was well down the mountain. As I was driving down the mountain back to civilization I believe I would have calmed down enough to run through the options. I probably would have tried to get a game warden to go back up there with me to look for them as soon as I could find one willing. That's as far as I got with it, I don't know what would happen once we found the kids as far as F&G taking over, would that be the best decision? Is doing the right thing always the right thing to do? Is it the right thing for you or the right thing for these kid creatures, I don't honestly know.
BobbyO Posted January 3, 2012 SSR Team Posted January 3, 2012 Do we know it's the footprints of that particular kid though? I hope it is, but what would you guess was at the third spot that bothered the dog? I don't know but if it isn't, i guess we'd be talking about an incredible healthy population in that area wouldn't we. If i had to bet my house on it i'd say it was the same one, with Dad or an older sibling ( i don't know how big the other tracks were ). Maybe the Guys in the know could help us with these bits if we ask nicely and any other info on this part of the puzzle.
bipedalist Posted January 3, 2012 BFF Patron Posted January 3, 2012 I thought that the creature stepped out into a field, and her kids followed her out. Is that not correct? Right, Derek and then Justin changed the details from walking down the road with hands up to being 180 yards out in a field with hands up. And the kids would have been shortly behind her but wasn't that after the adult was shot. I guess I would have let the adult approach to within fifty yards, maybe less, I would have asked for detailed reports from the spotter as this was occurring.....I may have let it close within thirty yards before making decisions as to what was happening. By that time the kids would have made the crossing and it would have been obvious you were dealing with a very rare situation. The choice could have been to leave or to await the next move of the adult after the kids likely crossing. I would have been content to come back another day with proper trackers for long term surveillance ..... perhaps ..... being in a no-kill camp if I was local to this area that would have suited me fine.... if not living in that area I would have been content with the experience. Did the adult even make a sound?
Guest wild eyed willy Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 What is in the past is exactly that, (past) Good or bad makes no difference. All of the, want to, will not change what has happened. Railing on Justin won't help the situation either. He seems genuine and I would bet my house he would not repeat this event a second time. I think it is high time we all let this go and move forward, If Justin really did what he claims to have done, I personall hold no judgment on him. It seems clear that his becoming a researcher and spending time afield aiding in the search for evidence certainly shows a huge step in the right direction. It takes a very big man to admit such a thing; especially given the amount of public ridicule he has been subjected to. IMHO he has been an upstanding member of our community since the unfortunate events took place. So I call upon all of my fellow posters to ( Give the guy a break). As far as I am concerned, Justin is one of us and always welcome.
Guest Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I agree with you Polypodium. I was amazed to see the comments in the chat. But at the time good questions we're needed nobody had one. It was such a missed opportunity. I got so frustrated over the fact that I couldn't chat along because I wasn't logged on that it even made me post my first comment on this site.. I've been following this forum for a few months now out of interest in the phenomenon and I thought about entering the discussion alot but this interview finally made me do it.. What's kept me from commenting earlier is especially that I'm from the Netherlands. A country where nobody knows about bigfoot (maybe amazing but true!) so I feel like I'm not in the position to talk about it because we don't have no bigfoots here.. And that's for sure. Maybe somewhere else in Europe but not here. And then there's the language that makes it difficult to say what you mean, so I apologize for that in advance. And finally there's the iPhone trying to change every word I type into Dutch.. Sorry to bother you all. We are thrilled to have company visit from the Netherlands! Welcome...There are a lot of knowledgeable researchers here who are in the forefront of BF research, and some have had encounters,and some have had sightings, plus these guys know their facts and are great people. So again, Welcome, and have fun! Also you can learn a lot because there are many pages of research posted here. I agree with you Polypodium. I was amazed to see the comments in the chat. But at the time good questions we're needed nobody had one. It was such a missed opportunity. I got so frustrated over the fact that I couldn't chat along because I wasn't logged on that it even made me post my first comment on this site.. I've been following this forum for a few months now out of interest in the phenomenon and I thought about entering the discussion alot but this interview finally made me do it.. What's kept me from commenting earlier is especially that I'm from the Netherlands. A country where nobody knows about bigfoot (maybe amazing but true!) so I feel like I'm not in the position to talk about it because we don't have no bigfoots here.. And that's for sure. Maybe somewhere else in Europe but not here. And then there's the language that makes it difficult to say what you mean, so I apologize for that in advance. And finally there's the iPhone trying to change every word I type into Dutch.. Sorry to bother you all. We are thrilled to have company visit from the Netherlands! Welcome...There are a lot of knowledgeable researchers here who are in the forefront of BF research, and some have had encounters,and some have had sightings, plus these guys know their facts and are great people. So again, Welcome, and have fun! Also you can learn a lot because there are many pages of research posted here. I agree with you Polypodium. I was amazed to see the comments in the chat. But at the time good questions we're needed nobody had one. It was such a missed opportunity. I got so frustrated over the fact that I couldn't chat along because I wasn't logged on that it even made me post my first comment on this site.. I've been following this forum for a few months now out of interest in the phenomenon and I thought about entering the discussion alot but this interview finally made me do it.. What's kept me from commenting earlier is especially that I'm from the Netherlands. A country where nobody knows about bigfoot (maybe amazing but true!) so I feel like I'm not in the position to talk about it because we don't have no bigfoots here.. And that's for sure. Maybe somewhere else in Europe but not here. And then there's the language that makes it difficult to say what you mean, so I apologize for that in advance. And finally there's the iPhone trying to change every word I type into Dutch.. Sorry to bother you all. We are thrilled to have company visit from the Netherlands! Welcome...There are a lot of knowledgeable researchers here who are in the forefront of BF research, and some have had encounters,and some have had sightings, plus these guys know their facts and are great people. So again, Welcome, and have fun! Also you can learn a lot because there are many pages of research posted here.
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