Yuchi1 Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I had a .338 Winchester Magnum rifle for several years and while it is likely the best elk rifle going and I carried it during my pro-kill days, decided the .45-70 was a better choice as we quickly concluded (for our circumstances) any encounter was going to be with the alpha male and up close and personal so quick handling qualities and stopping power, proven over ~170 years of actual field usage. The alpha male ruling the roost in our location was (based upon three (3) individuals' observations) ~9' in stature and well over an axe handle across the shoulders. He moved through the bush w/o making a sound (that we could detect) and was not afraid to engage us in certain circumstances such as when the ~1400# tower deer stand was slammed over (adjacent to our position) or hurl softball size stones to within ~20 yards of us. Summarily, I decided this entity possessed a level of intelligence and woodcraft capabilities that not only has allowed it to remain an enigma for decades but to utilize those capabilities for quick and easy application of lethal force (upon us), if so desired/required. The takeaway from those conclusions was that killing one for the sake of fame, fortune or even "science" was both morally wrong and may well germinate a host of legal/criminal issues as well. BTW, rest assured my sensibilities are in no way offended by your bombasity however, when challenged, your reaction appears to be one of immediate, reflexive retribution and IMO not indicative of someone adept at countering threats from multiple levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Now we're talking! I do understand you wishful for the .45-70 for the quicker reaction time and it certainly does have the knock down power for anything I can think of. I am not familiar with the terrain you were referring to, and of course, you would know your own needs much better than anyone else. That .338 is not real fast to get into action, and certainly not as fast to get on target as a shorter, light, .45-70. I truly do understand your determination and agree with it. You know your terrain, you know your limits of vision, how much reaction time you may have, and what you feel comfortable with. Sounds like you were up against a real monster-sized critter with some severe limits on his patience levels. You mention softball sized rocks - I'm real curious - were these softball sized rocks the ones selected by the critter - or were softball sized rocks pretty much what was available? We seem to have come to the same conclusions on the intelligence and skills of these things - and also on their ability to impart great harm should they decide to. And their intelligence and field craft is unmatched. We may part ways on the right/wrong of killing one, but that's nothing that cannot be respected on both sides. I said something a good while back that addressed a similar inference - not the same - but "The capacity for great violence is not to be equated with a preference for great violence." In defense of my reaction times, for a thoughtful moment - go back and consider the last third of your first sentence. You needed quick handling properties. As you should. That ability to react quickly comes in handy in other scenarios. If you're not quick - you're . . . anyway, it's long established principle I've lived by. And to the contrary, quickness is not reflexive on a board, but quickness enables the ability to encounter and neutralize multiple threats. You'd be amazed when it gets "real." Anyway, thank you for your response, well presented, and informative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted October 21, 2015 Admin Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think Yuchi and you are in the same camp- no kill. Unless its a life threatening situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I think Yuchi and you are in the same camp- no kill. Unless its a life threatening situation. I'm kinda chuckling - when I had that big guy running at me - all I had was a 1911, and I wasn't ABOUT to shoot unless we merged. That cotton picker was HUGE, and that 1911 was TINY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted October 21, 2015 Admin Share Posted October 21, 2015 Yah thats when you stick it in his ear and hope for the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 Yah thats when you stick it in his ear and hope for the best. I swear, I couldn't reach up that high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yuchi1 Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Perhaps, a .22LR for your own ear, if the big bore doesn't work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 Nah, I don't have the courage for that. Nor the inclination. Although I can see how things can get sideways with these things real quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted October 23, 2015 BFF Patron Share Posted October 23, 2015 (edited) Anyone seen an Inland MFG M1 Carbine reproduction? I have always had a thing for that weapon since watching WWII movies when I was a kid. I have not found any dealers in this area that have them to have a look. In the last two years there have probably been 5 dealers go out of business in this area. Nah, I don't have the courage for that. Nor the inclination. Although I can see how things can get sideways with these things real quick. I don't know. What I carry in the field would normally just make BF mad at me if I tried to use it. But since the myths of how BF kills humans point to two methods, ripping off your head being one method, and disembowelment being the other. As one thread has beat to death, getting ones head ripped off would not take long to die. But disembowelment, can take a long time with horrific suffering on the part of the victim. I think I would prefer to shoot myself in the head than to suffer like that. Edited October 23, 2015 by SWWASASQUATCHPROJECT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdale Posted October 23, 2015 Share Posted October 23, 2015 I haven't handled the new MKS Midland repos but Guns and Ammo had a good article on them a few months ago. Here is a link to a synopsis: http://www.gunsandammo.com/news/mks-supply-produce-new-m1-carbines/. Looks like they've done a good job on them, original stocks and duplicate markings. Dad was in the SeaBees in WWII and was issued one to replace his '03 Springfield in Port Hueneme before they shipped out for Tarawa. He liked it because it was a lot less weight than the '03 and by the time he waded ashore things were pretty well locked down except for occasional snipers. They worked well in WWII but in Korea they had problems with penetration on Chinese troops with their quilted winter gear. I know thirty odd years ago it was popular to have them converted to .357 Magnum but I've never known anyone that had it done so not sure how reliable it was. For close in work I would prefer 15 or 30 rounds of 125 or 158 gr. .357 hollow points to 110 grain .30 cal. Here's a link to a ballistics table with velocities from a number of common .357 loads out of various carbine and rifle length barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWWASAS Posted October 23, 2015 BFF Patron Share Posted October 23, 2015 From the guns and ammo article maybe I should look for the real thing. Might get it a whole lot cheaper. I am not interested in it from a performance standpoint anyway. Not being a hunter, the only long gun I have is a 22 rifle I got as a kid. Been thinking about the Big Quake they say is coming to the PNW. From recent history we know that the direct result of natural disasters is roaming bands of looters. Taking stuff away from people that have prepared and have it. Maybe I can justify getting one just for that. There are three of us on my street that are ex military. Somehow I think this would not be a good area to loot. Portland had an incident two days ago where a meth head broke into a couples home, took off all his clothes, and jumped on the top of the sleeping home owner, and started kissing him. Talk about a rude awakening. The home owner chased the burglar out of his house firing a couple of shots on the process. I bet he spent a lot of time gargling after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarArcher Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 From the guns and ammo article maybe I should look for the real thing. Might get it a whole lot cheaper. I am not interested in it from a performance standpoint anyway. Not being a hunter, the only long gun I have is a 22 rifle I got as a kid. Been thinking about the Big Quake they say is coming to the PNW. From recent history we know that the direct result of natural disasters is roaming bands of looters. Taking stuff away from people that have prepared and have it. Maybe I can justify getting one just for that. There are three of us on my street that are ex military. Somehow I think this would not be a good area to loot. Portland had an incident two days ago where a meth head broke into a couples home, took off all his clothes, and jumped on the top of the sleeping home owner, and started kissing him. Talk about a rude awakening. The home owner chased the burglar out of his house firing a couple of shots on the process. I bet he spent a lot of time gargling after that. I haven't looked it up, but there were a few million of these made in WWII, and here and there you can find a good carbine at a good price. If I were given a choice between a quality WWII piece and a recent manufacture, and the price was just a couple hundred dollars, I'd get the WWII model, as that thing will continue to go up in price/value. I remember selling them back and forth for a couple hundred dollars, and when I look at the prices now, it's surprising. Just remember that ammo isn't real common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdale Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 (edited) Prices on used M1 Carbines have skyrocketed over the last couple of decades. Most anything you find for under a grand is likely to be an arsenal rebuild with parts from disparate manufacturers. If you're looking for a collector piece it's one thing, but if you are thinking more of a practical rifle for when things drop in the pot but want to avoid the "black rifle" look, check out Mini-14s. Besides .223 they're made in 7.62 x 39, 6.8 SPC and .300 Blackout. The two weapons are similar in style and the five round factory magazine fits flush with the bottom of the mag well. They make an M1 Carbine style stock for the 10-22, but I suspect you could convert an original Mini-14 stock to a profile similar to the carbine. This is my Mini-14 purchased private party in 1980 for $150.00. That is the original stock which I modified with the pistol grip as it works better with my arthritic hands. The original handguard has been replaced with an Ultimak forward rail which not only provides an optics mount but is solidly secured to the barrel just forward of the chamber and replaces the upper gas block in front thus stiffening the barrel and reducing the tendency for vertical spread when hot. I've had exactly two jams in 35 years; the first when a friend somehow managed to get the OEM web sling stuck between the front of the bolt and the receiver and the second was a failure to feed from a cheap, aftermarket mag. There are a lot of custom stocks and other accessories available for them now too. I did an easy trigger job on it, reducing the original 6.5 lb. pull to 3.5 and installing an over travel stop. Edited October 24, 2015 by Airdale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted October 24, 2015 Admin Share Posted October 24, 2015 a guy could have bought a real war horse if it wasnt for Clinton and Obama.... http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/09/01/obama-administration-reverses-course-forbids-sale-antique-m-rifles/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonehead74 Posted October 24, 2015 Share Posted October 24, 2015 Prices on used M1 Carbines have skyrocketed over the last couple of decades. Most anything you find for under a grand is likely to be an arsenal rebuild with parts from disparate manufacturers. If you're looking for a collector piece it's one thing, but if you are thinking more of a practical rifle for when things drop in the pot but want to avoid the "black rifle" look, check out Mini-14s. Besides .223 they're made in 7.62 x 39, 6.8 SPC and .300 Blackout. The two weapons are similar in style and the five round factory magazine fits flush with the bottom of the mag well. M1 and Mini14.jpg They make an M1 Carbine style stock for the 10-22, but I suspect you could convert an original Mini-14 stock to a profile similar to the carbine. This is my Mini-14 purchased private party in 1980 for $150.00. That is the original stock which I modified with the pistol grip as it works better with my arthritic hands. The original handguard has been replaced with an Ultimak forward rail which not only provides an optics mount but is solidly secured to the barrel just forward of the chamber and replaces the upper gas block in front thus stiffening the barrel and reducing the tendency for vertical spread when hot. I've had exactly two jams in 35 years; the first when a friend somehow managed to get the OEM web sling stuck between the front of the bolt and the receiver and the second was a failure to feed from a cheap, aftermarket mag. There are a lot of custom stocks and other accessories available for them now too. I did an easy trigger job on it, reducing the original 6.5 lb. pull to 3.5 and installing an over travel stop. Airdale, I thought this might come in handy: You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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