Weapon Of Choice

[Kiwakwe]

Good deal on a custom 450 Marlin GG:

https://www.gunsamerica.com/925190442/Marlin-450-custom-guide-gu.htm

[Guest Rex]

I'm sure Norseman has designated himself the firearm expert - and is willing to argue his point even when he was ignorant of the firearm I was speaking of.

 

He was unaware of its existence.  But he was positive his firearm was superior.  If that's the kind of advice you guys relish, then by all means, take it.

 

Putting 14 rounds downfield of high velocity in a more controlled firing hold, and in about the same time he can put out four rounds is not even close.  Anyone can use a bit of common sense to see the difference in this.

 

One reason I didn't want to use my .458 winmag is control.  It kicks up pretty hard, and even if it were an automatic, you've lost your sight picture completely, and it will take a moment to recover.

 

You cannot argue with physics.  Any .45-70 loaded hot with the heavier rounds kick - and kick pretty good.  If you've never fired one, I'd advise you do so before swallowing this line of baloney.

 

Norse doesn't believe in a Bigfoot Army.  It's this kind of gross exaggeration that excludes any statements by him as having any credibility.  Any of you who have examined the matter through the hundreds of narratives, may come to the conclusion that not all BF's are loners.  In fact, if it's a part-man, they're social creatures that live in groups.  If it's of the ape family - they too, are social creatures and live in small clans or groups.  Just because you may see ONE, doesn't mean that's all there are. 

 

To illustrate his fallable postulation, he resorts to going to .600 nitro express rifles?  Get out the news reports, and you'll find poachers killing everything Africa has to offer with short-round thirty caliber weapons - the AK-47.  7.62X39.  I even have a deep dimple in my left shin bone from taking one myself.  Didn't break my bone, though.  And yet it will kill rhinos, elephants, etc. 

 

I don't know who Todd Standing is, nor do I give a tinker's ****. 

 

Norse makes a lot of assumptions - incorrect I might add - to what my situation will be.  Listen to what he say about humans not being able to see 360 degrees.  What is he talking about? 

 

He has very limited experience in fighting in numbers.  He has zero tactical awareness, nor the tactics that would address any attack from any angle.  I just got through saying we'll have four rifles with the T-70 sights.  Anyone else wonder why I'd need four rifles with T-70's mounted?  Or does that indicate more than just me.

 

Is anyone else limited enough in their experience to think that for a moment I'm going to be in the open, subject to attack from behind with no provision to prevent that?  One has to be stone drunk to assume that.

 

Norse is unfamiliar with NDP's, something most combat men know a bit about.  In fact, everyone.  We'll be on site for two months - minimum.  In a reinforced redoubt at night.  He has no idea what I'm talking about doing - but you hear his opinion on everything he's ignorant of.

 

He quotes Force Recon.  I was Special Forces, and served also in two Ranger companies, with four combat MOS's.  I have decorations for valor.  Long range recon was what we did, and I'm very much aware of who can cover what.  We'd go out for two weeks, and our rear area was a forward firebase.  Did I forget to mention that?  We were always vastly outnumbered - I've never known anything else.

 

Norse, please.  Do school me on bush tactics.  Educate me on degrees of sight.  Tell me about night defensive positions.  Instruct me on tactical movement.  Share with me all your night fighting techniques - when you were significantly outnumbered.  Give us your analysis of flanking movements, and the cover technique of tactically turning the flank of your opponent in turn. 

 

I'd really like to hear about it.

 

I know the others attend your posts, unabated.  Breathlessly.

 

Stick to your mules and rainbow trajectories.  You're talking about amateur hour - and I'm talking about specific strategy backed by proven tactical principles.

 

In my world, you wouldn't have lasted a week.

 

 

 

LMFAO!..

 

sincerely, 18B3PJ5

Yes Im quite familiar with interwebz soper ninja warrior elite types.

 

I am feeling vibes of gecko45 myself..

[FarArcher]

 

I'm sure Norseman has designated himself the firearm expert - and is willing to argue his point even when he was ignorant of the firearm I was speaking of.

 

He was unaware of its existence.  But he was positive his firearm was superior.  If that's the kind of advice you guys relish, then by all means, take it.

 

Putting 14 rounds downfield of high velocity in a more controlled firing hold, and in about the same time he can put out four rounds is not even close.  Anyone can use a bit of common sense to see the difference in this.

 

One reason I didn't want to use my .458 winmag is control.  It kicks up pretty hard, and even if it were an automatic, you've lost your sight picture completely, and it will take a moment to recover.

 

You cannot argue with physics.  Any .45-70 loaded hot with the heavier rounds kick - and kick pretty good.  If you've never fired one, I'd advise you do so before swallowing this line of baloney.

 

Norse doesn't believe in a Bigfoot Army.  It's this kind of gross exaggeration that excludes any statements by him as having any credibility.  Any of you who have examined the matter through the hundreds of narratives, may come to the conclusion that not all BF's are loners.  In fact, if it's a part-man, they're social creatures that live in groups.  If it's of the ape family - they too, are social creatures and live in small clans or groups.  Just because you may see ONE, doesn't mean that's all there are. 

 

To illustrate his fallable postulation, he resorts to going to .600 nitro express rifles?  Get out the news reports, and you'll find poachers killing everything Africa has to offer with short-round thirty caliber weapons - the AK-47.  7.62X39.  I even have a deep dimple in my left shin bone from taking one myself.  Didn't break my bone, though.  And yet it will kill rhinos, elephants, etc. 

 

I don't know who Todd Standing is, nor do I give a tinker's ****. 

 

Norse makes a lot of assumptions - incorrect I might add - to what my situation will be.  Listen to what he say about humans not being able to see 360 degrees.  What is he talking about? 

 

He has very limited experience in fighting in numbers.  He has zero tactical awareness, nor the tactics that would address any attack from any angle.  I just got through saying we'll have four rifles with the T-70 sights.  Anyone else wonder why I'd need four rifles with T-70's mounted?  Or does that indicate more than just me.

 

Is anyone else limited enough in their experience to think that for a moment I'm going to be in the open, subject to attack from behind with no provision to prevent that?  One has to be stone drunk to assume that.

 

Norse is unfamiliar with NDP's, something most combat men know a bit about.  In fact, everyone.  We'll be on site for two months - minimum.  In a reinforced redoubt at night.  He has no idea what I'm talking about doing - but you hear his opinion on everything he's ignorant of.

 

He quotes Force Recon.  I was Special Forces, and served also in two Ranger companies, with four combat MOS's.  I have decorations for valor.  Long range recon was what we did, and I'm very much aware of who can cover what.  We'd go out for two weeks, and our rear area was a forward firebase.  Did I forget to mention that?  We were always vastly outnumbered - I've never known anything else.

 

Norse, please.  Do school me on bush tactics.  Educate me on degrees of sight.  Tell me about night defensive positions.  Instruct me on tactical movement.  Share with me all your night fighting techniques - when you were significantly outnumbered.  Give us your analysis of flanking movements, and the cover technique of tactically turning the flank of your opponent in turn. 

 

I'd really like to hear about it.

 

I know the others attend your posts, unabated.  Breathlessly.

 

Stick to your mules and rainbow trajectories.  You're talking about amateur hour - and I'm talking about specific strategy backed by proven tactical principles.

 

In my world, you wouldn't have lasted a week.

 

 

 

LMFAO!..

 

sincerely, 18B3PJ5

Yes Im quite familiar with interwebz soper ninja warrior elite types.

 

I am feeling vibes of gecko45 myself..

 

 

Only one MOS?  LMAO!

 

That's alright, I suppose.  I mean, they've really simplified things in recent years, with more emphasis on generic problem solving than tactical field skills. 

 

The fights (skins versus shirts) in the sawdust pit - they still pull those not aggressive enough, put them in a push-up position, and have every man there line up and kick them in the ribs until they break?  And if you don't kick hard enough to crack them, you get the same thing? 

 

Didn't think so. 

 

Any of your units authorized by - the Army - a daily ration of rum?  Nah.  One of my units was the first and only.  Every been in the stockade with your First Shirt and CO?  For participating in a brawl with another unit?  The Colonel had to come down and get you out?  And it doesn't go on your record?  Nah.  They don't put up with things like that today.  Conduct Unbecoming, and probably get kicked out in this softer, more socially responsible military.  

 

I'm not sure what your gecko45 is, but it appears your intuition is somewhat lacking.  That kind of thing - mistaking your vibes - can get a man in trouble real quick in the wrong place.  Might want to tune that up..

[Woodslore]

I don't think I will ever understand the draw to Ar-15's, Glocks, AK's and shoulder wreckers. Maybe it was the way I was raised. 

[norseman]

Well, then what do you like?

[Bonehead74]

I'm not sure what your gecko45 is, but it appears your intuition is somewhat lacking. That kind of thing - mistaking your vibes - can get a man in trouble real quick in the wrong place. Might want to tune that up..

All you need to know about gecko45 is: don't bother shooting him in the back. It won't stop him.

FarArcher,

Would you be willing to share a photo or two of your rifle/NV setup? Thanks in advance.

[Woodslore]

Norseman for me simple is best. I just think there is a lot of hype and flash for AR-15's, AK's and Glocks. I've seen them in lists for guns everyone should own and first gun buys and survival guns. I just don't see the draw to them. I don't see them as the end all to be all idea. If people like them great, good for them. Some claim oh the future of hunting. I don't see it as hunting if you got an AR or AK type fire arm. Just how I was raised. Just I cannot understand the draw to them. Simple bolt, bump, lever action for a rifle/shotgun. Think you can agree with me on the lever action Norse. Even a single shot or double barrel. For a pistol, a few guys mentioned it, a revolver. simple, easy, beautiful. Easier to maintain. Don't see the need for a pistol or rifle with 15-30+ rounds of center fire in the woods. Something like a PMR 30 semi auto .22 mag great for worse case in the woods. 30 rounds of little critter getter, though that is a different story. Chances are if you are rushed or encounter a rather grumpy animal (or Sasquatch) in the woods you are not going to get off more than what 2-3 shots. Some places you are even limited to the number of rounds you can have in a center fire rifles mag, 5-10. So why grab the hype? So why the need for more gun than that? 
 
 As for rounds, I have said it before I'd trust my .303 British (180 gr) or my 12. gauge. Both are hard working rounds and in my neck of the woods used to deal with the largest game we got (Moose and bear). The 12 gauge is a common bear, wilderness defense round across North America. You'll find it in almost every back woods remote cabin. If it wasn't good at the job people wouldn't use it. It won't wreck the shoulder, unless you fire off a box in 1 go. I even have said in the moment a .22 would be better than nothing. The .303 has taken pretty much every animal on the planet. It sits similar to a .308 yet is looked down on in a few circles. Though again my neck of the woods you'd be hard pressed to find a person who wouldn't grab it if they had to go into bear or moose country. Canada up until this year gave the .303 to the Rangers in the North for protection against Polar Bears and to sustain themselves. Even at 180 gr .303 doesn't wreck your shoulder. Now not saying these are better than any other round. .45-70, .338 Win mag, .44 mag, .357 mag, .30-06 etc. etc. all got their place and worth. Just my view.

I'm just not a fan of the idea that if I am going into the woods with a round that you raise, you point, you fire and the gun becomes an anti aircraft weapon. Rather something I am comfortable with and trust. Again just me.

[FarArcher]

Woodslore, you're right - there's a bit of hype and flash about the AR platform rifles - and my guess is that a lot of it has to do with familiarity through movies and the like. 

 

On the other hand, there were hundreds of thousands of young men who were handed one, and told to go do their job using that platform - so for hundreds of thousands spread over three generations who actually had to become very familiar with the platform.  Familiarity fuels a lot of sales.

 

Some folks are - and excuse the term - it's just what I use - purists.  Purists will use traditional longbows and bolt action or levers as those are the ones that put more challenge than the whiz-bang compound bows, carbon-fiber components, and the auto-fire rifles.  But then again, any firearm is a point of development of technology;  Flintlocks were to be replaced by percussions, by metallic cartridges, on and on.  Single shots to revolving weapons to lever actions, to self-loaders.  Folks like what they're comfortable with and know.

 

There's an old saying, "beware a man with just one rifle."  The implication is that whatever it is - he's going to be one with that rifle and know exactly what he can do with it.  Every firearm ever built - is a compromise.  Every firearm has trade-offs. 

 

Some may suggest that a spear and atl are the most pure form of hunting;  Or that just taking one round for hunting is more pure than taking a handful of cartridges.  Me, I have lever actions as well, and love them. 

 

Me and Norse just got to having fun - like arguing about what fishing lure works best, or whether a spinning reel or bait caster, or even fly rod is best.  It may have gotten a bit out of hand - on my part - and I apologized to him for that.  And he graciously accepted it.  Norse would be welcome at my fire anytime, anywhere.  (And I'd feel a lot better with him AND his .45-70.)

 

I think things got sideways when I was trying - and failed - to more accurately stipulate my specific needs - to meet a very limited, specific circumstance, under very limited conditions, for a very specific time period, with a very limited field of fire, but I'll need rapid follow-on shots with the simultaneous ability to maintain my shot picture. 

 

What AR platforms do - is absorb a lot of recoil - using the buffer and spring.  They lessen felt recoil, and they reduce barrel climb.  

 

I love the reliabilty of wheel guns, and have several.  But I was also handed a 1911, and told to use it - so I became very familiar with it.  So my conceal carry is a 1911.  My preference would be a model 57 or model 29, but man, it's hard to conceal those things properly!

 

Familiarlty, specific need, capability, and reliability, depending on terrain and personal requirements will ever influence one to figure out which firearm will provide the least amount of compromise for conditions.

 

There ain't no perfect weapon.

[norseman]

Norseman for me simple is best. I just think there is a lot of hype and flash for AR-15's, AK's and Glocks. I've seen them in lists for guns everyone should own and first gun buys and survival guns. I just don't see the draw to them. I don't see them as the end all to be all idea. If people like them great, good for them. Some claim oh the future of hunting. I don't see it as hunting if you got an AR or AK type fire arm. Just how I was raised. Just I cannot understand the draw to them. Simple bolt, bump, lever action for a rifle/shotgun. Think you can agree with me on the lever action Norse. Even a single shot or double barrel. For a pistol, a few guys mentioned it, a revolver. simple, easy, beautiful. Easier to maintain. Don't see the need for a pistol or rifle with 15-30+ rounds of center fire in the woods. Something like a PMR 30 semi auto .22 mag great for worse case in the woods. 30 rounds of little critter getter, though that is a different story. Chances are if you are rushed or encounter a rather grumpy animal (or Sasquatch) in the woods you are not going to get off more than what 2-3 shots. Some places you are even limited to the number of rounds you can have in a center fire rifles mag, 5-10. So why grab the hype? So why the need for more gun than that? 

 

 As for rounds, I have said it before I'd trust my .303 British (180 gr) or my 12. gauge. Both are hard working rounds and in my neck of the woods used to deal with the largest game we got (Moose and bear). The 12 gauge is a common bear, wilderness defense round across North America. You'll find it in almost every back woods remote cabin. If it wasn't good at the job people wouldn't use it. It won't wreck the shoulder, unless you fire off a box in 1 go. I even have said in the moment a .22 would be better than nothing. The .303 has taken pretty much every animal on the planet. It sits similar to a .308 yet is looked down on in a few circles. Though again my neck of the woods you'd be hard pressed to find a person who wouldn't grab it if they had to go into bear or moose country. Canada up until this year gave the .303 to the Rangers in the North for protection against Polar Bears and to sustain themselves. Even at 180 gr .303 doesn't wreck your shoulder. Now not saying these are better than any other round. .45-70, .338 Win mag, .44 mag, .357 mag, .30-06 etc. etc. all got their place and worth. Just my view.

I'm just not a fan of the idea that if I am going into the woods with a round that you raise, you point, you fire and the gun becomes an anti aircraft weapon. Rather something I am comfortable with and trust. Again just me.

The fundamental law of firearms is that you must be comfortable with what your shooting. I'm a traditionalist too but I do like big bore options But Im a big guy too.

But lets face facts, the AR platform has become the Iphone of its time. With just the purchase of one AR lower reciever the possibilities are endless with the different rifles and calibers and attachments you can buy for that platform.

Thats the draw to it. unlike my guide gun that is like a rotary telephone, for the most part it is what it is.

If Im after dangerous game? I dont like semi autos.......they jam. You have to keep them clean with the AK probably being the best of the class. Ive never had a jam on my marlin, and you can buy after market parts to fortify the action further.

There is also a ressurgence of short big bore lever guns....not just with marlin. Along with Hornady Lever Revolution? Its helped to keep these rifles in the forest and out of glass cases.

Another ressurgence in the cowboy assualt rifle.......people who live in socialist unconstitutional places in the usa can take a Marlin 1894 44 or 357 rifle and turn it into a very capable defense rifle or bug out rifle. Same goes for rifles in 30 30.

I own a AR and a AK, but I prefer my lever and wheel guns, its fun to practice the skills to become proficient with them. And there is some John Wayne nostaliga there as well. Especially when riding on a saddle.....

Woodslore, you're right - there's a bit of hype and flash about the AR platform rifles - and my guess is that a lot of it has to do with familiarity through movies and the like. 

 

On the other hand, there were hundreds of thousands of young men who were handed one, and told to go do their job using that platform - so for hundreds of thousands spread over three generations who actually had to become very familiar with the platform.  Familiarity fuels a lot of sales.

 

Some folks are - and excuse the term - it's just what I use - purists.  Purists will use traditional longbows and bolt action or levers as those are the ones that put more challenge than the whiz-bang compound bows, carbon-fiber components, and the auto-fire rifles.  But then again, any firearm is a point of development of technology;  Flintlocks were to be replaced by percussions, by metallic cartridges, on and on.  Single shots to revolving weapons to lever actions, to self-loaders.  Folks like what they're comfortable with and know.

 

There's an old saying, "beware a man with just one rifle."  The implication is that whatever it is - he's going to be one with that rifle and know exactly what he can do with it.  Every firearm ever built - is a compromise.  Every firearm has trade-offs. 

 

Some may suggest that a spear and atl are the most pure form of hunting;  Or that just taking one round for hunting is more pure than taking a handful of cartridges.  Me, I have lever actions as well, and love them. 

 

Me and Norse just got to having fun - like arguing about what fishing lure works best, or whether a spinning reel or bait caster, or even fly rod is best.  It may have gotten a bit out of hand - on my part - and I apologized to him for that.  And he graciously accepted it.  Norse would be welcome at my fire anytime, anywhere.  (And I'd feel a lot better with him AND his .45-70.)

 

I think things got sideways when I was trying - and failed - to more accurately stipulate my specific needs - to meet a very limited, specific circumstance, under very limited conditions, for a very specific time period, with a very limited field of fire, but I'll need rapid follow-on shots with the simultaneous ability to maintain my shot picture. 

 

What AR platforms do - is absorb a lot of recoil - using the buffer and spring.  They lessen felt recoil, and they reduce barrel climb.  

 

I love the reliabilty of wheel guns, and have several.  But I was also handed a 1911, and told to use it - so I became very familiar with it.  So my conceal carry is a 1911.  My preference would be a model 57 or model 29, but man, it's hard to conceal those things properly!

 

Familiarlty, specific need, capability, and reliability, depending on terrain and personal requirements will ever influence one to figure out which firearm will provide the least amount of compromise for conditions.

 

There ain't no perfect weapon.

Your right.

Same goes for bolt actions replacing lever actions after WW1. Doughboys got used to 1903 springfieds, and when they returned home? Thats what they wanted to go hunting with....... If the US adopted the Steyr AUG in twenty years time? We would probably see a whole new generation of vets wanting bull pup hunting rifles.

Its all subjective with the fundamental rule trumping all others, be comfortable with what you shoot.

Thanks for the campfire invite! Ill bring the fireball!

[Woodslore]

Yeah I am a bit of a smaller guy (5'9") so big bore sometimes can be a bit much for me. Don't get me wrong fun to shoot at the range but I know my limit. Biggest I fired was an 8 gauge. Both shot and lead slug. I wore that bruise with pride. Though don't think I'll be going hunting with it ever. 

[wiiawiwb]

I don't think I will ever understand the draw to Ar-15's, Glocks, AK's and shoulder wreckers. Maybe it was the way I was raised. 

 

Maybe it was the way you weren't raised.

[MagniAesir]

Actually a lot of smaller guys shoot big bores easily

I am told their secret is to not fight the recoil, rather allow them to be pushed back.

I was lucky I started shooting young and nobody told me to be afraid (bad choice of word, but I can't think of a better word right now) of recoil

right after my 22 I was shooting a 303 sporterized Lee Enfield in elementary school

The other thing to remember Woodslore is that our American friends are different, they have AR platform rifles redily available to them so naturally many people use them for hunting

With the AR being classified as a restricted firearm here in Canada it prevents many Canadians from being familiar with them

If the AR was non-restricted here in Canada one might replace my mini 14 as a fun to play with gun.

[Woodslore]

Wiiawib what do you mean. The way you weren't raised?

[norseman]

I would take that to mean that your father should have embraced fire power

[Guest Crowlogic]

It would not be wise to go into the bush without a weapon. I am contemplating purchasing a Ruger Super Redhawk Alaskan:

What is your weapon of choice?

I'm opting for the Super Redneck version.