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Opinions on the BFRO?


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Believer57
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8 hours ago, Redbone said:

Very long story short, the tracks were made by a moose.

I found this very interesting so thank you for posting it.

 

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That Moose incident is exactly how I fell about the BFRO and is something I alluded to earlier in my own post about them jumping to conclusions and even being aggressive to those willing to counterpoint them. People will believe and see what they want to see. 

Edited by Marty
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BlackRockBigfoot
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I see that the BFRO has a planned expedition in South Carolina this April.  Interesting spot that they seemed to have selected.

 

 

 

 

 

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vinchyfoot
10 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

I see that the BFRO has a planned expedition in South Carolina this April.  Interesting spot that they seemed to have selected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Likely poached from some local researcher

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BlackRockBigfoot
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1 hour ago, vinchyfoot said:

 

Likely poached from some local researcher

It looks like it was chosen for ease of access and convenience.  

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wiiawiwb
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21 hours ago, Marty said:

That Moose incident is exactly how I fell about the BFRO and is something I alluded to earlier in my own post about them jumping to conclusions and even being aggressive to those willing to counterpoint them. People will believe and see what they want to see. 

 

Or mistakes are made. I'm confident I can't name a single organization I know whose employees/members have never made a mistake or error in judgment? 

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Doodler
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37 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

Or mistakes are made. I'm confident I can't name a single organization I know whose employees/members have never made a mistake or error in judgment? 

 

yeah, but there's a difference between individuals who make mistakes or errors in judgement, and regularly, as part of the normal operating procedure, declaring hings to be a facts without any evidence, and a big difference when they regularly double down on it after having their opinion challenged time and time again. As the guy in the video says, he's interested in the systematic failure that leads to conclusions like this. This isn't a kid who overthrew the basketball hoop and took out your garage window, this is the dad coming home from work and driving right through the garage door day after day.

 

The leader is responsible for that system, and this time the leadership got called out. A sign of integrity is acknowledging the failure and adjusting the system to improve itself over time, not adjusting the data to fit the system.

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Redbone
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3 hours ago, vinchyfoot said:

 

Likely poached from some local researcher

 

1 hour ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

It looks like it was chosen for ease of access and convenience.  

Rick Reles is one of the SC expedition leaders. He is among the best you will find at BFRO. He would know areas because of reports, but I don't believe he would go into someone else's area without cooperation and consent.

If you ever get on any expeditions with Rick, make sure you take the opportunity to go on a night op with him. He has a good success rate, and it's my opinion that it's because he listened to what my Omaha Nation friends had to say, and took it to heart. Plus, he's just a good guy.

58 minutes ago, wiiawiwb said:

 

Or mistakes are made. I'm confident I can't name a single organization I know whose employees/members have never made a mistake or error in judgment? 

BFRO (the organization) is filled with wonderful people, who (like all of us) are not perfect. Some are more "not perfect" then others :)

 

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BlackRockBigfoot
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He knows areas from reports...but, aren't we establishing here that the BFRO reports are garbage in, garbage out?  Unvetted, uninvestigated, and altered?

 

Not trying to insult your friend.  I am sure that he is a great guy.  This is an honest question.

 

Unless, what people are saying here is that BFRO members have access to actual vetted reports as opposed to the inaccurate report list that is shared on their website.  But, wouldn't that be misrepresenting themselves to the very public that they depend upon for paid outings?

 

The whole thing is sounding pretty shady...like the fake Amazon reviews on  Chinese electronics.

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joebeelart

Joe Beelart here from near Portland, Oregon.  Wow.  This discussion is still sliding down hill like a landslide.  So, I decided to shovel a load of rock on it. 

 

BFRO Expeditions:

As a speaking guest, I've been on a number of BFRO expeditions in the Gifford Pinchot and Mt. Hood National Forests, and in the Oregon Coast Range.  {I can easily think of 7 BFRO expeditions, but I know there were more.}

 

I have seen several return guests from the mid-west and east coast who I now consider friends.  So, they must think they get their money's worth.  {Think travel expenses from the east, or even from southern California.}

 

Sure, the expeditions are “supply your own meals,” but I’ve found for at least one night’s supper it’s more of a shared board situation.  And, I for one, every morning, make a Cabela’s pot of coffee and then at least one more.  In the morning, generally, there are pastry boxes to share.  I always have one.  I’ve been on several “expeditions” where one BFRO member has always made a big pan breakfast to share.  Of course, as it should be, lunch is to one’s preference.

 

 Another indicator of well-led expeditions is that some sell out very quickly, to repeat members.  I know of one yearly BFRO expedition that is quite, and rightfully so, a virtual exclusive “club” with admittance by approved qualification only.  It allegedly has a waiting list.  

 

Don’t get me wrong, while I feel some practices in BFRO expeditions could be much improved, but in general they fairly, properly, and safely introduce people to the land of Our Barefoot Friends; and are led by knowledgeable researchers.

 

My Qualifications to write this:

I feel I have some experience to speak on “expeditions.”  My experience in very brief:    My “Bigfoot Sasquatch Field Notes” go back to 1999.  I wrote, with the encouragement and participation of my associate, Cliff Olson, “The Oregon Bigfoot Highway.”

 

Another book, by me, primarily based on field research is on the way.  Where do the foundation stones for the new book come from?  Amongst other things, every year except for 2020, I’ve led pre-qualified, non-paying people on “expeditions,” including people from Australia, England, France, and Germany; plus people from across the USA and Canada.  For an example, see “Tracking down Bigfoot” on YouTube.

 

Going back many years, I’ve participated in at least 2 other organization’s expeditions.  In 2018 I was out 19 nights.  In 2019 the number was 21.  Due to the coronoid virus, I only went out one night in 2020, but made several trips up the hill.  2021 looks very promising.

 

Why do I spend so much time up the hill?  Because with enough time afield there are results.  If “you” are interested, I’ll write a note on the Hewkin—Sullivan Rule and Kiley’s Principles and Dictums. 

 

Personalities:

HA !  As far as personality discussion in this thread:  People have individual motivations, attitudes, social, and family drives, all of which change over time.  Each person has a personality, with some being appealing, some not so; and, some just plain abrasive.  Allow for that in what you read, see, and hear.

 

Conflict in strong personalities goes back to earliest recorded human history, and will never end.  Conflict, or underlying conflict, is the basis of every stage, screen, or TV drama, comedic or otherwise, and every song.

 

It’s OK to discuss personality in a polite manner.  In that regard, I really wish I could tell you a story, but I can’t.  I guarantee you would laugh, it is better than a joke.  Well, this is enough droning on.  Thank you.  Ps:  Don’t even get me going on drones----   { Below is Mt. Jefferson before a storm.  I managed to stay dry that night with only a tarp, but of course, I was alone. }

 

0 Wet Trip 9 10 texted copy.jpg

Edited by joebeelart
Word did not link it quite right.
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Redbone
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48 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

He knows areas from reports...but, aren't we establishing here that the BFRO reports are garbage in, garbage out?  Unvetted, uninvestigated, and altered?

 

Not trying to insult your friend.  I am sure that he is a great guy.  This is an honest question.

 

Unless, what people are saying here is that BFRO members have access to actual vetted reports as opposed to the inaccurate report list that is shared on their website.  But, wouldn't that be misrepresenting themselves to the very public that they depend upon for paid outings?

 

The whole thing is sounding pretty shady...like the fake Amazon reviews on  Chinese electronics.

Not all reports are unvetted. Not all reports are garbage. Not all BFRO investigators are Matt Moneymaker.

 

26 minutes ago, joebeelart said:

 Another indicator of well-led expeditions is that some sell out very quickly, to repeat members. 

South Carolina is sold out... :)

 

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BlackRockBigfoot
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1 hour ago, Redbone said:

Not all reports are unvetted. Not all reports are garbage. Not all BFRO investigators are Matt Moneymaker.

 

Valid points.  

 

"As one who reads almost all new reports, I have seen a trend in the last year. Recent reports are coming in and being published with little or no investigation at all. Most of these are done by MM himself. This alone does not make them inaccurate, but it's BFRO's claim that they vet all reports. That is simply not true."

 

Redbone, why do you think that the majority of these recent, inaccurate reports are coming from Moneymaker?  Are other BFRO investigators not submitting vetted reports?  Or are they being submitted but not published?

 

 

 

Edited by BlackRockBigfoot
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Arvedis

They probably have had multiple people writing and vetting reports over the years. Their web site is 90s tech. I can tell they have made attempts to organize the site in different ways. Maybe they have a monetary cap on web development. Betting they looked into it and got sticker shock what it would take to bring the system up to speed.

 

MM doesn't seem draconian or really very organized so there are likely plenty of errors and inconsistency in everything they do.

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Redbone
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58 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said:

Valid points.  

 

"As one who reads almost all new reports, I have seen a trend in the last year. Recent reports are coming in and being published with little or no investigation at all. Most of these are done by MM himself. This alone does not make them inaccurate, but it's BFRO's claim that they vet all reports. That is simply not true."

 

Redbone, why do you think that the majority of these recent, inaccurate reports are coming from Moneymaker?  Are other BFRO investigators not submitting vetted reports?  Or are they being submitted but not published?

I think it's just MM. Guys like Carter Buschart are publishing a lot of vetted reports. SOME of those reports that Matt is throwing out there, seem to be happening because they are fresh. Some have been only a day or two old. I think that was the problem with the Moose Report. He got excited and jumped the shark. In some reports, he also mentions that the witness info is on file, likely hoping for follow up from other investigators.

 

NOW- I am frustrated by a few reports that mention they have pictures of tracks, and then don't share them... That is NOT MM, but I don't recall specifically which investigators did this.

When one of my BFRO friends make a mistake, I tell them and hope for correction. We fixed county on one such report.

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BlackRockBigfoot
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19 minutes ago, Redbone said:

I think it's just MM. Guys like Carter Buschart are publishing a lot of vetted reports. SOME of those reports that Matt is throwing out there, seem to be happening because they are fresh. Some have been only a day or two old. I think that was the problem with the Moose Report. He got excited and jumped the shark. In some reports, he also mentions that the witness info is on file, likely hoping for follow up from other investigators.

 

NOW- I am frustrated by a few reports that mention they have pictures of tracks, and then don't share them... That is NOT MM, but I don't recall specifically which investigators did this.

When one of my BFRO friends make a mistake, I tell them and hope for correction. We fixed county on one such report.

I have Carter's book in my queue, hut haven't gotten around to it yet.  

 

Do you think that the omission of the pictures of tracks is due to lack of time and effort, or do you think that they are being secretive with the information?

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