Opinions on the BFRO?

[Marty]

1 hour ago, Twist said:

My question is, how is he doing harm by providing the database, especially considering it’s free. 
 

Sounds like the response is because he is not doing enough?   I don’t buy that, he’s done an essential part, providing data.  He could choose to do more but he’s not obligated to.  
 

If someone does spearhead an expedition are you then going to ask why they don’t provide a database?  If they choose not to are they doing harm?

Because he is constantly aggressive to people who are skeptical, whether you want to accept it or not the general public thinks this is all a joke. No amount of convincing will sway them otherwise, not without a body. Right now, he is labelled and seen as a crook, liar and a lunatic. You could argue, who cares what people think? Well, it actually matters a lot, if the species were proven to be real the effects on the environment would be unimaginable. Land would be protected, wildlife habitats and old growth forests would be protected, there would be a major push to protect most of our wildlife areas around the country, and this would lead to more potential discoveries elsewhere in the world, on a Planet we are currently helping to kill. He does have a responsibility for not only the Sasquatch species, but their discovery would have untold benefits for nature as a whole. Instead, he is relying on word of mouth to boost his celebrity-esque ego...not credible in any way. He has the resources, use them.  Otherwise, this subject will remain a joke and continue down this stagnant path. 

The database is fine, I just think he is under utilizing it.

Edited February 25, 2021 by Marty

[wiiawiwb]

This subject is a joke...to whom?  Perhaps to those in your world but not mine.  People I speak with find it fascinating and while not everyone is willing to accept it is real they are almost, to a person, open minded about it and willing to hear the reasons why I am convinced.

 

I take exception to your characterization of MM. If you disagree with his methods, or think BFRO should handle things differently, what is stopping you from putting up your money and sallying forth your efforts to start an organization that will do the things you think ring true?  Become the new BFRO and accomplish the lofty goals you outlined above. 

 

It's easy to sit back and complain. It's something altogether different to use your own resources and tireless efforts to make the changes you believe need to be done.  I'd bet dollars to donuts that in the early days MM spent untold hours and plenty of money building the BFRO without getting a penny for his efforts. Whatever financial dividends inure to him now from his efforts hitherto are well deserved. He built it the old-fashion way with lots of sweat and I'd bet lots of sleepless nights.

 

 

[Arvedis]

3 hours ago, Marty said:

The database is fine, I just think he is under utilizing it.

 

The BFRO has always been about minimalism.  Maybe the expertise to share data is beyond their ability or they just think that serving to HTML is adequate.

 

Anyway, the BFRO has already moved on from humble grass roots beginnings.  There's nothing more to be gained for them except TV bit parts. The end result is all about cash rewards for just a few. Pretty good outcome for MM, who is now just a guy who at one time dyed his hair celebrity lemon yellow.

Edited February 26, 2021 by Arvedis

[bipedalist]

9 hours ago, cmknight said:

Not true at all. Reports are kept private for different reasons but for the sole use of BFRO investigators is not one of them. Some reporters do not wish their reports made public, for various reasons (trespassers, reporter is high profile, etc.), and those wishes are honoured. Reports that have not been entered into the database because they haven't been investigated yet (there are quite a few of those) are also not publicly accessible. As are the number of fake reports ("I saw a bigfoot yesterday. I just finished some shrooms with my buddy Billy, and it was making a sandwich in his kitchen. It had big b**bs, like Billy's mom"). You wouldn't believe how many of those ones the investigators run across.

 

I was their investigator in China for a while, but since I came back in 2015, They saw no need for one anymore and was dropped. I am no longer a member of that organization.

 

Maybe you could start a Chinese Yeren thread for us and give us a little bit more insight into that part of your life (within nondisclosure agreement parentheticals of course). 

[Huntster]

3 hours ago, Marty said:

......the general public thinks this is all a joke. No amount of convincing will sway them otherwise, not without a body.......

 

Good!

 

Quote

.......You could argue, who cares what people think? Well, it actually matters a lot, if the species were proven to be real the effects on the environment would be unimaginable. Land would be protected, wildlife habitats and old growth forests would be protected, there would be a major push to protect most of our wildlife areas around the country, and this would lead to more potential discoveries elsewhere in the world, on a Planet we are currently helping to kill.........

 

Exactly what I fear.

 

Quote

.........He does have a responsibility for not only the Sasquatch species, but their discovery would have untold benefits for nature as a whole.........

 

He has no more responsibility than you or I. You want to point out those with the responsibility to save the world? Look no further than government. That is specifically their jobs. We pay them out of our pockets, and are actually forced to do so. That includes wildlife management, forest management, public safety, aboriginal human rights, interplanetary communication, interplanetary diplomacy, even regulating the Matt Moneymakers of the world, and every other area which bigfoot could possibly occupy.

 

And all of those folks are so quiet about this entire affair that you can hear a pin drop. 

[Twist]

3 hours ago, Marty said:

Because he is constantly aggressive to people who are skeptical, whether you want to accept it or not the general public thinks this is all a joke. No amount of convincing will sway them otherwise, not without a body. Right now, he is labelled and seen as a crook, liar and a lunatic.

You started this line of thought of him doing more harm then good. 
 

Is it because he doesn’t spearhead an expedition. Or because of his personality/ aggressive behavior?

 

Where is your backing / information that ppl think him a lunatic etc?   
 

Sounds more like your opinion being projected as public opinion.   

[Trogluddite]

^^

I'll second the notion that one Mssr. Moneymaker does more harm than good.  In my opinion he is a poor ambassador for those who want to convince a skeptical public that Bigfoot is a living, breathing animal.  Also in my opinion, he asserts things as "fact" that, if not false on their face, are so grandiose as to be unbelievable.  (I'm thinking of his famous "this part of New York has nothing but miles of abandoned houses and orchards."  Dude, I live in this part of New York and we're not miles from civilization.  The baby bigfoot video was filmed w/in 1/4 mile of I-84.)  Because he is one of the most visible "researchers," he unavoidably affects the perception the public has of all those who are trying to solve the riddle.

 

It's not unfair to perceive him as a carnival barker and its not surprising that when a carnival barker proclaims that he has proof that aliens exist, you shouldn't be surprised that when you pay your 2 bits and go inside the tent, you only find a mutated cow fetus (you just have to look at it the right way). 

 

While I'll acknowledge that my personal opinion is not the public opinion, you'd have a tough time persuading me that the public opinion of him as a bigfoot "resarcher" is that he's a researcher.  I suspect that the general public views him as the carnival barker. 

 

It is a shame.  The BFRO does provide a service through its published reports.  But those don't put $$ in the bank account.  DRAMA!^TM and CLIFFHANGERS!!^TM and "we just missed finding bigfoot, be sure to tune in next week" puts those $$ there, even if credibility has to be sacrificed. 

[vinchyfoot]

19 hours ago, Huntster said:

Seems to me that an increasing number of the more recent high quality sightings reports have been investigated, entered, and commented upon by Moneymaker himself. I found that interesting. I assume that with Finding Bigfoot not being filmed, he has more time for such work. I also find those particular reports to be very recent, and top quality, usually with multiple witnesses, indicating that he is choosing them out of more mundane and questionable reports. Much more than expeditions, such investigations and reports are the best of what BFRO has to offer, IMHO.

 

Except they all come through the questionable lense of Moneymaker, who shapes his narrative. 

[vinchyfoot]

16 hours ago, Twist said:

It’s his money to do how he chooses, he’s not obligated to spend it on spearheading a true expedition just because that’s what you want or would do.

 

The BFRO provides a large free database of sightings.  
 

How does his free database do harm? 

 

It doesnt represent ALL the reports, thus not all the data, and if like the report highlighted in the video is typical, noone was actually there onsite for them, and much of what was said in declaration by MM himself. How many others are like that> Many of their reports from my neck of the woods are dubious based on my own regional knowledge. The BFRO is a business, not a research group.

[vinchyfoot]

11 hours ago, wiiawiwb said:

This subject is a joke...to whom?  Perhaps to those in your world but not mine.  People I speak with find it fascinating and while not everyone is willing to accept it is real they are almost, to a person, open minded about it and willing to hear the reasons why I am convinced.

 

I take exception to your characterization of MM. If you disagree with his methods, or think BFRO should handle things differently, what is stopping you from putting up your money and sallying forth your efforts to start an organization that will do the things you think ring true?  Become the new BFRO and accomplish the lofty goals you outlined above. 

 

It's easy to sit back and complain. It's something altogether different to use your own resources and tireless efforts to make the changes you believe need to be done.  I'd bet dollars to donuts that in the early days MM spent untold hours and plenty of money building the BFRO without getting a penny for his efforts. Whatever financial dividends inure to him now from his efforts hitherto are well deserved. He built it the old-fashion way with lots of sweat and I'd bet lots of sleepless nights.

 

 

 

 

I take exception to your take on it. He is an abrasive sod who runs a business that shapes the narrative to his own designs, not where the facts go. But if the sheep want to go along for the ride and not do their own work then a big fat whatever to that. 

[vinchyfoot]

8 hours ago, Trogluddite said:

^^

I'll second the notion that one Mssr. Moneymaker does more harm than good.  In my opinion he is a poor ambassador for those who want to convince a skeptical public that Bigfoot is a living, breathing animal.  Also in my opinion, he asserts things as "fact" that, if not false on their face, are so grandiose as to be unbelievable.  (I'm thinking of his famous "this part of New York has nothing but miles of abandoned houses and orchards."  Dude, I live in this part of New York and we're not miles from civilization.  The baby bigfoot video was filmed w/in 1/4 mile of I-84.)  Because he is one of the most visible "researchers," he unavoidably affects the perception the public has of all those who are trying to solve the riddle.

 

It's not unfair to perceive him as a carnival barker and its not surprising that when a carnival barker proclaims that he has proof that aliens exist, you shouldn't be surprised that when you pay your 2 bits and go inside the tent, you only find a mutated cow fetus (you just have to look at it the right way). 

 

While I'll acknowledge that my personal opinion is not the public opinion, you'd have a tough time persuading me that the public opinion of him as a bigfoot "resarcher" is that he's a researcher.  I suspect that the general public views him as the carnival barker. 

 

It is a shame.  The BFRO does provide a service through its published reports.  But those don't put $$ in the bank account.  DRAMA!^TM and CLIFFHANGERS!!^TM and "we just missed finding bigfoot, be sure to tune in next week" puts those $$ there, even if credibility has to be sacrificed. 

 

Carnival barker is apt, there are good folks in the BFRO, it's leadership is the point of failure. His declarations are a joke. HE is not credible.

[gigantor]

I think we should focus our energy in a positive manner.

 

Bashing one of our colleges who has contributed to the field much more than many of us, is not the way to do it.

@vinchyfoot seems to be waging a personal vendetta against MM, that's the only time he posts, to bash MM.

 

What's up with that?

 

[Redbone]

19 minutes ago, gigantor said:

I think we should focus our energy in a positive manner.

 

Bashing one of our colleges who has contributed to the field much more than many of us, is not the way to do it.

@vinchyfoot seems to be waging a personal vendetta against MM, that's the only time he posts, to bash MM.

 

What's up with that?

 

Seems that I recall a banned poster who also did that, but my brain is foggy and can't remember who it was.

There is a college for this field?

[Huntster]

3 hours ago, vinchyfoot said:

 

Except they all come through the questionable lense of Moneymaker, who shapes his narrative. 

 

You really appear to have a personal problem with the man. Reviewing the more currently submitted reports, I noticed that Moneymaker is investigating the California reports, and those are posted with the exact same format as the others from other investigators (which are also excellently done). And as an example:

 

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=67480

 

The field labeled "Observed", is written by the person submitting the report online. How does Moneymaker "shape the narrative" in that case? isn't it the witness that shapes it? 

 

And how do the published reports investigated by Moneymaker differ from those investigated by the investigator in Washington state?

[BlackRockBigfoot]

9 minutes ago, Redbone said:

 

There is a college for this field?

Yeah, but it's a correspondence college.  I'll pm you the email address for your tuition payments.  Bitcoin only.  

 

Once the payment clears we'll be back in touch with you.