Arvedis Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, hiflier said: Has anyone bothered to even ask what the "time-sensitive" evidence was that the Olympic Project collected back a year ago in February 2020? If you are referring to the nest eDNA results, Meldrum discusses the project and results in this documentary: 1 hour ago, hiflier said: Not a good sign. For most people, BF is just one of many peripheral topics of interest. Some folks dive in as researchers. One thing I have noticed is the revolving door of podcasts over the years. Some are really good and have strong runs. "Sas What?" was one of the better ones but after a few years, the energy faded and now it's gone. The NAWAC podcast faded out as well after millions of listens (according to podcast stats). They have had changes in membership and levels of commitment. Also, I can tell just from the editing job that Gunnar and Shane's podcast on the Olympic Project (Monster X) is just a labor of love though it does push their research efforts forward a bit. I always look at the old school guys like Jim McClarin from the 60s and 70s. Jim was super into it for years and worked right alongside John Green, Rene, etc. But he never published anything I am aware of (which is a shame since he was a skilled observer and writer). One day he just quit. That tends to happen when people get burnt on the search coming up empty. Edited June 11, 2021 by Arvedis
BlackRockBigfoot Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 5 hours ago, hiflier said: Then maybe it's time for everyone to stop tiptoeing around the pro-kill approach. We ALL know physical evidence (body/skeleton/DNA) is required. REQUIRED. Has anyone bothered to even ask what the "time-sensitive" evidence was that the Olympic Project collected back a year ago in February 2020? Doubt it. What is wrong with you folks? Looking through this entire Forum illustrates that only a tiny fraction of it concerns true research and discovery discussion. The rest is guns, knives and gear in order to give one a sense that they're really into actual scientific discovery. Is anyone set up to actually take a DNA sample from a footprint? I doubt that, too. Does anyone have a lab to take a possible sample to? Probably not. Just what are you folks doing about scientific discover except copping out with the tired old mantra of only wanting to see one for oneself? There is a level of reality here about this creature and it's future which, IMHO is nothing but talk. It takes a body or some other physical evidence. Period. That footprint? Yep, it's cool, now we can hang on the edge of our respective seats for the next one. More audio? Sure, why not. How about a little eyeshine? Yep, that's good, gets mentioned all the time. But real scientific discovery? Nope, not for decades, even though the path to discovery is well known by all, as well as those who came before us. Don't get me wrong, people do try, but only trying the same things over and over, and discussing gear instead of scientific methodology erodes one's credibility and calls into question true intent. Personally, I think things here could be tightened up a bit as far as focus goes....or simply just keep on skipping th serious discovery part altogether and honestly admit the atmosphere of how things truly are here. Or....to repeat....stop tiptoeing around the pro-kill philosophy, or a DNA collection program, and get serious. Neither of which is at the forefront of this Forum other than the nod, or some kind or honorable mention just to cover one's bases. Vinchyfoot said it best, there's no real community beyond its fragmented condition regarding what folks think passes for research. Just tossing my two rocks into the camp. Nothing personal here beyond general observation of how seriously or non-seriously this community embraces or has become desensitized to the importance and magnitude of the discovery issue. What I see is not encouraging. We have taken the past month off, but otherwise we are out every week with our ‘knives, guns, and gear’. Maybe we are just dumb rednecks with delusions of being capable of ‘scientific discovery’, but we are among the very few in this region who do anything beyond going to a comfortable camp ground to pose for Facebook photos in our adventurer gear or walking along well trodden paths trying to catch images of Sasquatch on shaky back cams. As far as the DNA aspect goes… what happened with the eDNA project that was proposed here? Absolutely nothing, that’s what. And why would it? Almost every conversation here nowadays gets derailed by a handful of members who have to spew their bitterness about any subject. They either hate the parties involved or the topic doesn’t fit with some ill defined scientific standard. It’s a peculiarity of the Bigfoot world that people who seem to hate so much of it become so involved with the discussion of it. But, that’s ok. There are still some conversations going on behind the scenes here concerning possible plans for DNA samples and how they might be properly handled. Why on earth would those involved discuss it publicly here? Look at how this thread on the Smeja shooting has gone. The constant negativity and know-it-all’s have simply driven the conversation to private message. Who knows? Maybe that was their goal all along? 1 1
hiflier Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 32 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said: As far as the DNA aspect goes… what happened with the eDNA project that was proposed here? Absolutely nothing, that’s what. No support. Everyone was apparently waiting for "someone" to go strong (keyword: someone). Well, the bad news is it's a big country and it takes a lot of someones. Most of those someones are, or were in the PacNW. I tried to connect to a lab that would take samples somewhere in the West but failed in two attempts. Did anyone pick up the slack? Nope. Willing to take samples? Yes, but were waiting on someone else to secure a lab. I offered suggestions of contacting local academic zoology departments, citizen science programs who would supply free gear (same people- CALeDNA- who gave the KY DNA results!) etc. but TBH there was only so much I can do. I decided to see if I could make my own arrangements locally which I succeeded in doing. It wasn't hard, but as far as I know, no one else has done so, nor has anyone mentioned that were set up to take samples- which would be useless without somewhere to take them. So I let the "project" as you call it lapse. Is it my fault for the failure? Could be, but I don't think so. Can't tug on folks to get involved who don't want to be tugged on, OR get involved. I said I could provide links to materials for snow DNA collection- no takers. Couldn't even ask people to email their respective F&W and ask about BF existence. The backlash and push back on this Forum in the past two to three years on such things in all honesty had, and has been, pretty harsh at times. People say they'll take DNA samples but won't harvest a relationship with a local lab. They say F&W and Forestry Service, etc. are in the know about Bigfoot existence but won't contact anyone to ask. So yeah, BlackRockBigfoot, nothing with the proposed eDNA project happened. It takes a community to succeed, but it also takes a community to fail. Ah well......just an observation. 1 hour ago, BlackRockBigfoot said: But, that’s ok. There are still some conversations going on behind the scenes here concerning possible plans for DNA samples and how they might be properly handled. Why on earth would those involved discuss it publicly here? Behind the scenes. Good. Exactly where it should be. ALL science should be behind the scenes. Hidden. Because everyone knows that the public's rightful place, its ONLY rightful place in fact, is in the dark, away from secret conversations
Huntster Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 8 hours ago, vinchyfoot said: ........ If you want the critter recognized as real, science will have a say........ I don't care what "science" (whoever that is) days or refuses to say, and I don't care if you or the mailman recognizes sasquatches as real. Quote ........Science isn't a religion, it's applied learning, maybe subject to its own internal politics, but name an industry or similar that isn't. It's treated as a religion by lots of people, including many within various scientific disciplines. Yeah, every industry is fubar, so I'm not much interested in playing with them.
Huntster Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 8 hours ago, vinchyfoot said: .......Your contempt for them is obvious........ Is it as obvious as the contempt they have for this subject? Quote ......but at the end of the day, tehy are still the ones who would be the ones to declare it real or not. They can remain as clueless as they wish until the end of time, as far as I'm concerned. Let them chase carbon taxes.
Huntster Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 7 hours ago, hiflier said: ........Looking through this entire Forum illustrates that only a tiny fraction of it concerns true research and discovery discussion. The rest is guns, knives and gear in order to give one a sense that they're really into actual scientific discovery....... I'm not interested in discovery. That's for "scientists", not me. I'm an outdoorsman. I like my guns, knives, tents, Argo, snowmobile, camper, etc because I use them regularly for hunting, fishing, and exploring. Quote .......Is anyone set up to actually take a DNA sample from a footprint?..... Not me. I still haven't finished building a footprint casting kit, but I have toyed with the idea of doing so to cast prints from big bears, not sasquatches. Quote .........Just what are you folks doing about scientific discover except copping out with the tired old mantra of only wanting to see one for oneself?........ Nuthin. I'm cheerfully "copping out" with the tired old mantra of wanting to see one for myself. I stumbled upon a track way 49 years ago, and have never seen hide nor hair of sign ever again despite a full life of working and playing in the wilderness. Do you think I'm going to waste effort and money trying to prove the existence of a ghost that "science" has repeatedly proven they don't care about? I'm simply not that stupid. Quote ......stop tiptoeing around the pro-kill philosophy, or a DNA collection program, and get serious........ That ain't happening with me, either. I'm the guy who is always armed. I'm sitting in my camper right now at fish camp on the beach at Kas Kasilof with a rifke within reach. If a sadquatch jumps out, I will not be shooting at it. 2
Huntster Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Wooly Booger said: In the meanwhile, Matt is shaking his Moneymaker all the way to the bank. So?
hiflier Posted June 11, 2021 Posted June 11, 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Huntster said: I'm not interested in discovery. That's for "scientists", not me. I'm an outdoorsman. I like my guns, knives, tents, Argo, snowmobile, camper, etc because I use them regularly for hunting, fishing, and exploring. Not me. I still haven't finished building a footprint casting kit, but I have toyed with the idea of doing so to cast prints from big bears, not sasquatches. Nuthin. I'm cheerfully "copping out" with the tired old mantra of wanting to see one for myself. I stumbled upon a track way 49 years ago, and have never seen hide nor hair of sign ever again despite a full life of working and playing in the wilderness. Do you think I'm going to waste effort and money trying to prove the existence of a ghost that "science" has repeatedly proven they don't care about? I'm simply not that stupid. That ain't happening with me, either. I'm the guy who is always armed. I'm sitting in my camper right now at fish camp on the beach at Kas Kasilof with a rifke within reach. If a sadquatch jumps out, I will not be shooting at it. Don't really know why you bothered to respond then. Some might even call it an agenda if they were down far enough inside the CT rabbit hole. Except to maybe just do your bit to water things down. You know, create a bit more apathy? Apathy is good though. It's perfect for things like boredom and going to sleep and stuff. Which apparently is working quite well because, just in case you haven't noticed (apathy will do that to you), the BFF does seem a bit sleepy........yawn. Edited June 12, 2021 by hiflier 1 1
Wooly Booger Posted June 12, 2021 Author Posted June 12, 2021 22 hours ago, BlackRockBigfoot said: The only way we are ever going to get the scientific establishment on board is to present them with irrefutable evidence…i.e. a body. That’s it. And it won’t matter who provides the body…someone who believes that they just bagged an undiscovered ape or someone who thinks that they just shot a Zeti Reticulan. You would think that the more exposure the subject of Bigfoot gets…that it would become a bit more reputable. But, instead it seems to become more ridiculous the more mainstream attention it gets. I guess that’s a byproduct of some of the more visible Bigfoot related media like Mountain Monsters. Scientists work for some sort of organization; which is either in pursuit of monetary gain or academic prestige. The pursuit of proving the existence of Bigfoot does not seem like it offers either to those organizations. Like everyone else, scientists are going to spend their working hours on what their bosses want. There are obviously a few tenured exceptions like Meldrum, but they are in the vast majority. Everyone seems to have this impression that if we just don’t act TOO crazy, the scientific community is all of a sudden going to have a change of heart and invite the more polite segments of the Bigfoot community to sit at the adults table. News flash. They think that we are ALL crazy…whether you are attempting to approach this from a (crypto)zoological standpoint or if you are running around looking for portals with Dr J. Hunsters right. We need someone who has the moral flexibility to pull the trigger on one of these things, but has the mental wherewithal to handle the aftermath in a responsible manner. The scientific community isn’t going to be of any help until that body is delivered. There’s no money or prestige in it until then. Once we get the body, then we will find out which of us were right and which of us were wrong. Our ultimate goal needs to be acquiring irrefutable evidence. Meaning either a body, bones, or DNA. While we can certainly acquire this evidence on our own as Bigfoot researchers, getting the scientific community on board will provide the field which much needed funding, specialist knowledge, and technology. I agree that Bigfoot related farcical programming such as Mountain Monsters that panders to the lowest common denominator doesn't exactly lend to our community an air of respectability. But neither does the Tardis brigade and other assorted space cadets tromping around the forest with electromagnetic antennas chasing after ET and portals. Face the facts, the only way to peak the interest of the scientific community is to present a well-researched flesh and blood hypothesis that Bigfoot as an unclassified species of primate. This remains the only viable hypothesis, as portals, ETs, interdimensional beings, shape shifters and other assorted rubbish do not exist. I type this from my reserved seat at the scientific adult table. 1
norseman Posted June 12, 2021 Admin Posted June 12, 2021 I just bought my wa hunting license and Idaho hunting license with two wolf tags…. And I got my new caller I just purchased with Cabelas points! Now I just need to find a dumb and hungry squatch! 😤 Or I will settle for some wolves or coyotes and bobcats. 2
Huntster Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 20 minutes ago, hiflier said: Don't really know why you bothered to respond then. Some might even call it an agenda if they were down far enough inside the CT rabbit hole......... Setting the record straight with regard to my outdoors toys and activities. I hunt moose, caribou, and bears, not sasquatches, and that's my right to do so. I have no responsibility to solve any mysteries or establish any scientific discoveries. It's really that simple. 19 minutes ago, Wooly Booger said: ........I type this from my reserved seat at the scientific adult table. Are you a "scientist"? 1
Wooly Booger Posted June 12, 2021 Author Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Huntster said: Setting the record straight with regard to my outdoors toys and activities. I hunt moose, caribou, and bears, not sasquatches, and that's my right to do so. I have no responsibility to solve any mysteries or establish any scientific discoveries. It's really that simple. Are you a "scientist"? I am an archaeologist. So yes, yes I suppose I am a scientist. At least according to my two Masters Degrees. Edited June 12, 2021 by Wooly Booger 1
hiflier Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Huntster said: and that's my right to do so Take it easy, Huntster, who said it wasn't? 1 hour ago, norseman said: Now I just need to find a dumb and hungry squatch! 😤 Norseman? Love it Good luck on the tags, bud. And those Cabelas points do come in handy. 22 minutes ago, Wooly Booger said: I am an archaeologist. So yes, yes I suppose I am a scientist. At least according to my two Masters Degrees. I'll take it. Welcome adult scientist, step right up Especially since you have apparently, and obviously, done your Bigfoot research. A double plus for that. Now......had you been with Smeja that day...... Edited June 12, 2021 by hiflier
BlackRockBigfoot Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 1 hour ago, Wooly Booger said: Our ultimate goal needs to be acquiring irrefutable evidence. Meaning either a body, bones, or DNA. While we can certainly acquire this evidence on our own as Bigfoot researchers, getting the scientific community on board will provide the field which much needed funding, specialist knowledge, and technology. I agree that Bigfoot related farcical programming such as Mountain Monsters that panders to the lowest common denominator doesn't exactly lend to our community an air of respectability. But neither does the Tardis brigade and other assorted space cadets tromping around the forest with electromagnetic antennas chasing after ET and portals. Face the facts, the only way to peak the interest of the scientific community is to present a well-researched flesh and blood hypothesis that Bigfoot as an unclassified species of primate. This remains the only viable hypothesis, as portals, ETs, interdimensional beings, shape shifters and other assorted rubbish do not exist. I type this from my reserved seat at the scientific adult table. “Face the facts, the only way to peak the interest of the scientific community is to present a well-researched flesh and blood hypothesis that Bigfoot as an unclassified species of primate.” Let me know how that works out for you, and let the forum know how many well respected members of the scientific community you are able to sway with your hypothesis. “But neither does the Tardis brigade and other assorted space cadets tromping around the forest with electromagnetic antennas chasing after ET and portals.” Statements like this are why we find ourselves at opposite ends of the discussion in most threads…I believe that Bigfoot is a relic hominid, but I also believe that I don’t know everything under the sun and that the world is a stranger place than many realize. I don’t dismiss and insult those who have claimed stranger encounters than could be explained by a simple undiscovered ape. Some respected members of this forum (who have been involved in active field research far longer than I) have some personal accounts of activity that can’t be explained away by the presence of an undiscovered ape. Am I saying that these things are coming out of portals to stop global warming and bring world peace? No, I am not. I don’t know what is going on. Honestly, it seems very hard for me to logically accept…but, it seems to be happening. The whole idea of a huge undiscovered primate is hard to believe for most people when you get right down to it… Until very recently, a lot of people said similar things like your Tardis quote above about the UAP phenomenon…only to find themselves on the wrong side of the growing evidence. If the IDH ends up being the most likely explanation, then that opens up the possibility that a lot of things that have been dismissed as sheer lunacy might very well have happened. Skinwalker Ranch as an example. 1
hiflier Posted June 12, 2021 Posted June 12, 2021 6 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said: Let me know how that works out for you, and let the forum know how many well respected members of the scientific community you are able to sway with your hypothesis. Ah, I see. Leave everything up to one person. Make sure they stay isolated and without any help from the community. Yeah, that;s the ticket, that'll get things done. Unless of course the ploy is to make sure things DON'T get done but instead remain the same? MIB told me one time that the reason I don't make headway with F&W or the scientific world is because I'm just one random person. And yet anyone who tries to reach out for help gets tossed onto that same pile, isolated and going it alone for the truth. I know the resistance hand. I tried to do things, but this Forum is just so much dead weight. Members like Wooly Booger and I get turned into the bad guys for wanting the truth to become public. And I've seen every excuse in the book for why Sasquatch won't be discovered. None of it useful for anything but making sure people that do want public discovery get squashed down and unassisted in any move toward that end. What no one really clearly explains is why that is when official recognition could happen for the most incredible creature modern man could ever know. Science could do this but no one will lift a finger to make it happen. 30 minutes ago, BlackRockBigfoot said: let the forum know how many well respected members of the scientific community you are able to sway with your hypothesis. I would say that Wooly Booger is a respected member of the scientific community who would like public discovery. Let the Forum know why you don't give two hoots. Try not to sugar it up too much, okay? 1
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