Could you pull the trigger?

[hiflier]

To be honest? What's in my post above your quote is what worries me more, and historically it always has. And it has little to do with any of our researchers wrestling with the dilemma of pulling the trigger. A discussion of that kind of dilemma should never have to come up at all.

[norseman]

4 hours ago, Wooly Booger said:

I would shoot to kill only if I felt that I were in imminent danger. There is no telling how rare these creatures are, and killing one to prove it exists could potentially expedite the process of extinction. There is also the possibility that the species is a type of human which would make killing one other than for defensive purposes, to be murder. There are other, non lethal means, of proving the species existence that should be explored first before we should even consider killing a type specimen. 
 

With that being said, just like any other wild animal or indigenous tribe, I do think these creatures are potentially dangerous. Which is evidenced by Native American legends and possibly more recent accounts of persons missing in North American wilderness areas. I am armed whenever I go into the woods. But I will not open fire unless I am in direct danger. 

They have been explored. Hair samples, blood samples, flesh samples. Stool samples.
 

It should NOT be an “either or” approach. At this stage of the game? Everything should be on the table for the sake of expedience.

 

I’m willing to take samples for any of you guys that I run across. Just give me an address to send them to. I have before and will again. But if the bugger is standing right in front of me? I’m not wasting the opportunity. And you don’t have to be the one who pulls the trigger to support people willing to do so. 
 

Let’s get this done and over with.

[hiflier]

4 minutes ago, norseman said:

They have been explored. Hair samples, blood samples, flesh samples. Stool samples.
 

It should NOT be an “either or” approach

 

Yes it should, because not all avenues have been "explored," i.e., taken. And, IIRC, you have submitted one sample: An elk femur to BigTreeWalker. No one, as far as I know has ever confronted the USDA's Forestry Science Laboratory in Corvalis. No one has popped the existence question to The USF&W Forensics Lab in Ashland, Washington, a place familiar to at least the late Dr. Bryan Sykes. Has anyone else been there? These kinds of facilities are the next step above academia, and as it stands too few of us have even bothered with academia. There are a LOT of doors and avenues that the community needs to knock on before putting a bullet in the chamber either for self defense or otherwise.

 

Because if those avenues are pursued to exhaustion, which they haven't been, then the moral, ethical, social, and psychological question of shooting one could be settled- without shooting one. The reality of the creature could be known without ever firing a shot. No more need for all the pitchforks and sabre rattling.

[norseman]

47 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

Yes it should, because not all avenues have been "explored," i.e., taken. And, IIRC, you have submitted one sample: An elk femur to BigTreeWalker. No one, as far as I know has ever confronted the USDA's Forestry Science Laboratory in Corvalis. No one has popped the existence question to The USF&W Forensics Lab in Ashland, Washington, a place familiar to at least the late Dr. Bryan Sykes. Has anyone else been there? These kinds of facilities are the next step above academia, and as it stands too few of us have even bothered with academia. There are a LOT of doors and avenues that the community needs to knock on before putting a bullet in the chamber either for self defense or otherwise.

 

Because if those avenues are pursued to exhaustion, which they haven't been, then the moral, ethical, social, and psychological question of shooting one could be settled- without shooting one. The reality of the creature could be known without ever firing a shot. No more need for all the pitchforks and sabre rattling.

You already have your response from the USDA Hiflier….. in the form of a April fools joke!

 

https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2015/04/01/loss-space-threatening-north-american-sasquatch

 

https://www.fs.usda.gov/sites/default/files/poster_squatchselfie.pdf

 

Or how about the Park Service?

 

 

 

Do you remember what the definition of insanity is Hiflier?

 

[MIB]

42 minutes ago, hiflier said:

No one, as far as I know has ever confronted the USDA's Forestry Science Laboratory in Corvalis.

 

I know a handful of people who have worked for the lab over the years.   Student interns, etc.    If there is anything known, it is personal knowledge, not institutional knowledge.

 

42 minutes ago, hiflier said:

No one has popped the existence question to The USF&W Forensics Lab in Ashland, Washington, a place familiar to at least the late Dr. Bryan Sykes. Has anyone else been there?

 

Not correct.   1) Ashland is in Oregon, not Washington.   That lab is about 1/2 mile from where I'm sitting.   Used to drive by it almost daily.   2) A past moderator here, who went by Ace!, visited the lab.    He was told they only do criminal cases .. mostly CITES violations though some more local cases as well.    3) Sykes testing was done as a personal favor, not as part of the lab's official operation.   

 

MIB

 

[hiflier]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

You already have your response from the USDA Hiflier….. in the form of a April fools joke!

 

Nice attempted diversion but it won't fly, Norseman. You know exactly what I mean.

 

1 hour ago, norseman said:

Do you remember what the definition of insanity is Hiflier?

 

Yes, Norseman, it's the same as yours.

 

45 minutes ago, MIB said:

I know a handful of people who have worked for the lab over the years.   Student interns, etc.

 

And students and interns are pertinent to such an important piece of information how?

45 minutes ago, MIB said:

Not correct.   1) Ashland is in Oregon, not Washington.   That lab is about 1/2 mile from where I'm sitting.   Used to drive by it almost daily.   2) A past moderator here, who went by Ace!, visited the lab.    He was told they only do criminal cases .. mostly CITES violations though some more local cases as well.    3) Sykes testing was done as a personal favor, not as part of the lab's official operation.   

 

MIB

 

Why are you nit picking this? Ashland only takes cases that come in through LEO channels which is why I brought up the Corvalis facility. You and Norseman try to poke tiny holes every chance you get, and work at knocking down and undermining everything I say. You two especially ALWAYS use these tactics for fighting against REASONABLE suggestions and ways to advance toward a Sasquatch solution. People are reading, people are watching. They see what you're doing here. They've always seen.

 

45 minutes ago, MIB said:

That lab is about 1/2 mile from where I'm sitting.   Used to drive by it almost daily.

 

How nice! And......? Never mind, I already know. But this is a thread about shooting one, not walking into an official office and simply asking a question. My apologies for explaining a few simple ways to NOT have to worry about making such a decision.

Edited February 14, 2022 by hiflier

[Wooly Booger]

2 hours ago, norseman said:

They have been explored. Hair samples, blood samples, flesh samples. Stool samples.
 

It should NOT be an “either or” approach. At this stage of the game? Everything should be on the table for the sake of expedience.

 

I’m willing to take samples for any of you guys that I run across. Just give me an address to send them to. I have before and will again. But if the bugger is standing right in front of me? I’m not wasting the opportunity. And you don’t have to be the one who pulls the trigger to support people willing to do so. 
 

Let’s get this done and over with.

And I applaud your efforts and wish you the best of luck in your pursuit. As I have mentioned before, I am not “No Kill” per say. But how can we be sure that the “Sasquatch” in our scope isn’t some doofus in a monkey suit? One would have to be absolutely certain that what they are observing is indeed an unknown primate. And what if Sasquatches turn out to be a type of human? Killing one would constitute homicide.

 

If you think you have all your I’s dotted and T’s crossed them by all means take the shot. But it would be very difficult to have that level of certainty under most field conditions. 

[7.62]

Couldn't say until I look at one close through the cross hairs . 

 

 

[norseman]

1 hour ago, Wooly Booger said:

And I applaud your efforts and wish you the best of luck in your pursuit. As I have mentioned before, I am not “No Kill” per say. But how can we be sure that the “Sasquatch” in our scope isn’t some doofus in a monkey suit? One would have to be absolutely certain that what they are observing is indeed an unknown primate. And what if Sasquatches turn out to be a type of human? Killing one would constitute homicide.

 

If you think you have all your I’s dotted and T’s crossed them by all means take the shot. But it would be very difficult to have that level of certainty under most field conditions. 

Thanks.
 

There is no legal precedence for killing a cousin in the genus Homo. But It’s not the same species as us. Homo Sapiens. And science demands a type specimen to recognize a new species. They don’t make exceptions. People have tried to bring a legal status to other great apes? Thus far? It’s not been successful to my understanding. So if someone killed a Chimp in the US it would not be considered homicide. We are not the same species.

 

I’m very careful about where I go and how remote it is. I also think I’m a fair judge of animals based on being a life long hunter. I think it would be easy to spot an imposter where I go. But if I did have doubts I wouldn’t take the shot. I would probably confront the doofus in the suit and give him a piece of my mind.

[wiiawiwb]

I'm unabashedly in the no-kill camp.  I could be completely wrong but am of the opinion it will spell the beginning of the end. Their hopes of survival would hang in the balance and be entrusted to the government which never does anything well.

 

Left alone, I implicitly trust sasquatches for the survival of their own species.

[hiflier]

1 hour ago, wiiawiwb said:

Their hopes of survival would hang in the balance and be entrusted to the government which never does anything well.

 

This is 2022. Any "hopes for their survival" are ALREADY in the hands of the government and has been for decades. And yet there are people that still do not think that that is the reality. The other reality is that development and encroachment on wild US habitat continues and shows no sign of abating with 6,000 acres EVERY DAY being lost due to the conversion of habitat space to other uses. 6,000 acres a day may not sound like a lot but in reality that's over 2 million acres a year.

 

This is why I get so danged passionate and hot about discovery. And yet If I say that the Sasquatch could be officially on the books by the end of the week people will debate and fight tooth and nail to argue it away. And in the process, argue away the loss of its habitat and that of every other creature that calls the wild its home. I speak the truth which no one should be afraid of or shy away from. If anything It should help with one's resolve to make a difference. And that difference would come in the form of the truth about the existence of the Sasquatch.

Edited February 15, 2022 by hiflier

[norseman]

3 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

Nice attempted diversion but it won't fly, Norseman. You know exactly what I mean.

 

 

Yes, Norseman, it's the same as yours.

 

 

And students and interns are pertinent to such an important piece of information how?

 

Why are you nit picking this? Ashland only takes cases that come in through LEO channels which is why I brought up the Corvalis facility. You and Norseman try to poke tiny holes every chance you get, and work at knocking down and undermining everything I say. You two especially ALWAYS use these tactics for fighting against REASONABLE suggestions and ways to advance toward a Sasquatch solution. People are reading, people are watching. They see what you're doing here. They've always seen.

 

 

How nice! And......? Never mind, I already know. But this is a thread about shooting one, not walking into an official office and simply asking a question. My apologies for explaining a few simple ways to NOT have to worry about making such a decision.

Again? It’s not my attempt at a diversion. It’s was a REAL April fools joke perpetrated by none other than the USDA. You tax dollars hard at work! It’s just another example of government making fun of real people with real experiences.

 

 

[hiflier]

Pointless.

[norseman]

19 minutes ago, hiflier said:

Pointless.

Does this mean we are NOT going to go strolling through the forest together arm in arm?

[hiflier]

Aw, MAAAN! Let's look at that logically, It has been mentioned that the Sasquatch might be able to see in infrared, which means a heat signature. And if I'm in the woods when I get like this and my temperature goes up? Then I could be a veritable beacon, day or night. So take me into the woods, set me in a clearing and then do me a favor....shoot high With any luck, and a well placed head shot, the beast might fall backwards instead of crushing me under 800 lbs. of dead weight. But if things go really off the rails and the thing falls on me? I would trust you to cut the thing up fast and furious.

Edited February 15, 2022 by hiflier