Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 23 minutes ago, hiflier said: Nothing in the literature said that Zana built a nest. She preferred sleeping on the ground albeit inside a Human-made shelter of some kind?........ She was contained inside an enclosure for a few years so she wouldn't escape. She didn't have access to nest making materials if she was inclined to build a nest. So she dug a hole to sleep in..........thereby providing some overhead cover, which is the kind of shelter humans prefer. Quote ........Even so, the elaborate nests, open to the rain and other elements, that was that was found would not seem to be an historical Human characteristic even if only for temporary use.......... Precisely. The Eric Muench nest find was described as being built next to a large tree which provided some cover from overhead. Quote .........A relatively recent re-study of Zana and Kwit's DNA absolutely showed Human with slight differences compared to Sykes' study. Included in the study were references to what he got right......... Correct. Sykes described the African lineage as showing previously unknown signs, which led him to speculate that a line of Africans might have migrated out @ 100,000 years ago or so. Ketchum described similar unknown lines, which she described as hybriding with unknown apes. Margaryan disputed that with the claim that he had absolutely tied that line to a particular tribe in east Africa. hvhart believes Margaryan is "the final word" on Zana. I remain skeptical, primarily because of the "relative" terms of "degraded" and "human" used so suspiciously in this field. Quote .........So, Huntster, would you be alluding to a Zana-type tribe of robust individuals of some kind in North America? No. I believe that sasquatches are several things: 1) Some are manufactured entities by "witnesses" 2) Some are misidentified men, bears, moose, elk, deer, etc 3) Some are feral humans.......possibly, but doubtfully "tribal". Many of Tirademan's old articles describe this, in addition to many aboriginal American oral traditions 4) But, based mostly on the huge bulk of many of the sightings, combined with the trace evidence of footprints of such huge size, the mid-tarsel morphology of the feet, and what we see in the PG film supporting that (which also featured corresponding footprints), I believe that a novel human species (or three) still hangs on to existence in Asia and North America, they are capable of limited hyrid reproduction with homo sapiens (which is what has allowed them to avoid extinction so long), but they're on the road to extinction just like Neanderthals and Denisovans (and for the same reasons), and that is precisely what government wants to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 29 minutes ago, norseman said: It’s biological because of brain size. So is flaking tools......... The sasquatch head size provides a brain larger than ours. Furthermore, whales have larger brains than us, and they don't use tools. Behavior should have a more limited role in determining species. Quote ..........And the five toe inline foot is older than the Homo genus. So are you suggesting that these creatures are pithecenes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, norseman said: .......So is flaking tools......... Are these children human, or not?: https://www.urbo.com/content/modern-cases-of-feral-children-raised-in-the-wild/ If you caught am infant sasquatch and entered it into an education program and taught it how to build, feed, and extinguish a fire, would you be "creating" a human, in your image and likeness? Was Marcos Pantoja human at birth, or did he become human only after dapture and successful re-education? https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/28/how-to-be-human-the-man-who-was-raised-by-wolves Edited May 23, 2023 by Huntster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 29 minutes ago, Huntster said: The sasquatch head size provides a brain larger than ours. Furthermore, whales have larger brains than us, and they don't use tools. Behavior should have a more limited role in determining species. So are you suggesting that these creatures are pithecenes? How do we know that? A Gorilla has a larger head than us? Does it have a larger brain? The peaked head of the Sasquatch could be from a sagittal crest. Which means most of the top of the head is larger muscles for chewing. It’s a real possibility. But until we have a body? We just don’t know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, norseman said: How do we know that?........ We don't.......just like we don't know that it's smaller. You don't get to hypothesize your theory and prevent me from doing likewise. Quote .......But until we have a body? We just don’t know. Beyond that. If we had a sasquatch infant, could we teach it to sing opera by the time it was 10 years old? Did teaching Koko American Sign Language evolve her into humanity? Sorry, even a carcass can't get us to where we need to be to determine what these creatures are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, Huntster said: Are these children human, or not?: https://www.urbo.com/content/modern-cases-of-feral-children-raised-in-the-wild/ If you caught am infant sasquatch and entered it into an education program and taught it how to build, feed, and extinguish a fire, would you be "creating" a human, in your image and likeness? Was Marcos Pantoja human at birth, or did he become human only after dapture and successful re-education? https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/aug/28/how-to-be-human-the-man-who-was-raised-by-wolves You’re comparing specific outliers with whole populations. A child raised by wolves will act like a wolf. No surprise there. But I can take a wolf pup and raise it as my son and it will never play Bach on the piano or solve calculus equations. Why? Because it doesn’t have the mental or physical capacity to do so. Just like the human feral child will never run down an Elk and hamstring it with its teeth….. The resemblance is superficial. The reason Gorillas as a species do not flake stone or build fires isn’t a behavioral question. Their brains are too small to even conceive the concept. Meat and fat eating came before fire or stone tools in our ancestors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 3 minutes ago, Huntster said: We don't.......just like we don't know that it's smaller. You don't get to hypothesize your theory and prevent me from doing likewise. Beyond that. If we had a sasquatch infant, could we teach it to sing opera by the time it was 10 years old? Did teaching Koko American Sign Language evolve her into humanity? Sorry, even a carcass can't get us to where we need to be to determine what these creatures are. I am not preventing you from espousing your theory? It’s called a debate. DNA will place it on the tree of life. And we will know its relationship to us. Of course a body only gives us morphology and DNA. If it can learn sign language can only be proven with a live specimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, norseman said: You’re comparing specific outliers with whole populations......... No, I'm not. Take any "ape" born of a male and female Homo sapien and deprive it of education, and you end up with an aoe who doesn't have the understanding to flake stone into a spear tip. The "proof" is undeniable. The studies are legion. Our entire education system, rife with the politics of power and money, are all over early development and the lack thereof. Quote ........A child raised by wolves will act like a wolf. No surprise there. But I can take a wolf pup and raise it as my son and it will never play Bach on the piano or solve calculus equations. Why? Because it doesn’t have the mental or physical capacity to do so......... So, again, if you teach a female gorilla to effectively communicate her emotions, have you "created" a human in your image or likeness? If you teach her to flake stone into tools, have you created a human? Quote ........Just like the human feral child will never run down an Elk and hamstring it with its teeth….. https://mysteriesrunsolved.com/2020/04/syrian-gazelle-boy-feral-child.html Quote ........The reason Gorillas as a species do not flake stone or build fires isn’t a behavioral question. Their brains are too small to even conceive the concept. Meat and fat eating came before fire or stone tools in our ancestors. That is incorrect. A gorilla has no need for stone tools, radios, cars, etc. Koko was taught how to communicate emotions, Dude. "Like". "Sad". "Happy". "Afraid". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 13 minutes ago, norseman said: .........DNA will place it on the tree of life. And we will know its relationship to us.......... When it finally gets "un-degraded", and finally gets past the Pharisees, yeah, it will. Quote .........Of course a body only gives us morphology and DNA. If it can learn sign language can only be proven with a live specimen. Yup, thus "proving" that a carcass (which somehow arrives despite all efforts of "burial") only forces Science to begin to admit what is currently becoming obvious: There is another human species (or three) out there..........and our racial problems are going to be compounded into species problems........... Edited May 23, 2023 by Huntster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, Huntster said: No, I'm not. Take any "ape" born of a male and female Homo sapien and deprive it of education, and you end up with an aoe who doesn't have the understanding to flake stone into a spear tip. The "proof" is undeniable. The studies are legion. Our entire education system, rife with the politics of power and money, are all over early development and the lack thereof. So, again, if you teach a female gorilla to effectively communicate her emotions, have you "created" a human in your image or likeness? If you teach her to flake stone into tools, have you created a human? https://mysteriesrunsolved.com/2020/04/syrian-gazelle-boy-feral-child.html That is incorrect. A gorilla has no need for stone tools, radios, cars, etc. Koko was taught how to communicate emotions, Dude. "Like". "Sad". "Happy". "Afraid". The Homo Erectus hand axe is 1.8 million years old. Not only is flaking tools a sign of being in our species? It’s a sign of being in our genus! Does Sasquatch reportedly flake stone tools? A hand axe? A spear? Stone tipped arrows? No…. Maybe! (As a outlier) You could train a Sasquatch infant to flake stone tools. If the thumbs and brain are willing? Here is more information on the sagittal crest. It was present in more than great apes… https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sagittal_crest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 1 minute ago, norseman said: .........Does Sasquatch reportedly flake stone tools? A hand axe? A spear? Stone tipped arrows? No…. Neither do feral children. It is not a species defining trait. It is learned behavior. Quote ........Maybe! (As a outlier) You could train a Sasquatch infant to flake stone tools. If the thumbs and brain are willing?....... If we had an infant sasquatch to teach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 2 minutes ago, Huntster said: Neither do feral children. It is not a species defining trait. It is learned behavior. If we had an infant sasquatch to teach? Ok so to test your hypothesis, go buy a Gorilla infant and teach it to flake stone tools. If it’s ONLY behavioral then it should pick it up with ease. I will be waiting patiently…. You will fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidbressan/2021/07/20/why-chimpanzees-have-not-entered-the-stone-age/?sh=6c3c012553c1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huntster Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, norseman said: Ok so to test your hypothesis, go buy a Gorilla infant and teach it to flake stone tools. If it’s ONLY behavioral then it should pick it up with ease. I will be waiting patiently…. You will fail. A gorilla has no use for stone tools. None. Zip. Nada. I have no intention whatsoever in wasting my time or the gorillas time teaching him such a useless skill any more than I would have a need to teach a chimp how to enrich uranium into weapons grade plutonium. Only an ideological idiot would insist on teaching a gorilla to create them for the sole purpose of validating what he thinks is a "scientific" point. It is already proven that a gorilla has been taught a human language and has communicated both information and emotion, both receptively and expressively, and I openly proclaim that this does not make the gorilla human any more than if the gorilla built stone knives or intercontinental missiles. Moreover, if an abandoned child raised by wolves can't speak, walk bipedally, or build a Lincoln Log cabin, but can howl at the moon, run 30 mph on all fours, and eat raw meat, he remains human, not a wolf. Communication with humanity? Every creature on Earth has that need. Imagine gorillas, crocodiles, snail darters, spotted owls, great whales, etc at the negotiating table with the UN. I submit to you that government has already imagined that, and they have no intention whatsoever of going there......... Edited May 23, 2023 by Huntster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norseman Posted May 23, 2023 Share Posted May 23, 2023 25 minutes ago, Huntster said: A gorilla has no use for stone tools. None. Zip. Nada. I have no intention whatsoever in wasting my time or the gorillas time teaching him such a useless skill any more than I would have a need to teach a chimp how to enrich uranium into weapons grade plutonium. Only an ideological idiot would insist on teaching a gorilla to create them for the sole purpose of validating what he thinks is a "scientific" point. It is already proven that a gorilla has been taught a human language and has communicated both information and emotion, both receptively and expressively, and I openly proclaim that this does not make the gorilla human any more than if the gorilla built stone knives or intercontinental missiles. Moreover, if an abandoned child raised by wolves can't speak, walk bipedally, or build a Lincoln Log cabin, but can howl at the moon, run 30 mph on all fours, and eat raw meat, he remains human, not a wolf. Communication with humanity? Every creature on Earth has that need. Imagine gorillas, crocodiles, snail darters, spotted owls, great whales, etc at the negotiating table with the UN. I submit to you that government has already imagined that, and they have no intention whatsoever of going there......... No, he is a human which is also why he learned to walk upright, dress in clothes and smoke cigarettes…… something you will NEVER teach a wolf pup to do. https://allthatsinteresting.com/feral-children Again this is an outlier. And not representative of a complete population. Most human children would probably die and be eaten by the wolves…not raised by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts