Enoch

[Guest Alpinist]

This is where the rubber hits the road...

Swamp Bandit came on this forum and told us that Enoch was a big lie. In the process, he dragged Autumn Williams through the muck and made every effort to discredit her. I don't know Autumn but I have read a lot of her work and, although I don't always agree with her philosophy, I have a lot of respect for her commitment to the Bigfoot enigma and the positive exposure she brings to our community. She did not deserve to be manipulated and lied to by Mike. If Enoch is a true story, then Swamp Bandit needs to make amends to Autumn for trying to cast unwarranted doubt on her reputation.

Oh I didn't know that, that's not cool at all ... public apologies are a necessity then tuff guy.

[Guest]

Knuck...

If Bigfoot is hanging out in your yard every night, and tapping on your windows, or even having morning coffee with you as you sit together in chaise lounges on your back deck--> FINE.. ! To you that's a FACT....

To me, its just another fanciful story...

That's not me saying your being dishonest, or that you and other's with extraordinary claims, are not experiencing the things you say you are.

What I am saying, is that its not acceptable for me personally, even as a Bigfoot believer, to believe every tale, every encounter report, and every single scrap of what you or anyone else says- just because you say it's so.

Let me ask you a question... If I was a new member who came on here tomorrow, and started telling stories about how I've seen Bigfoot's flap their arms real hard, take off, and fly up and over the trees- would you believe me?

Sadly, with some of the members who post on here, I suspect the question might just be "Well, how high did he go?"

What's even worse, and more frustrating, is when someone claims to have proof or evidence of this incredible feat, but uses an excuse like "well if I put up my video of Bigfoot taking off and flying, it will endanger flying bigfoots everywhere!". Or worse- "why should I?". You know what? Sorry, I'm SO sick of it. You dont want people to ask for proof of the more outlandish/oddball claims. Then dont tell people you've got pictures of flying Bigfoots... even when you do. Then they wont have a reason to ask you.

I seriously wonder at times, if its just a game people like to play with others- to get them stirred up.

Anyone can come on here, and make whatever spectacular claims they want, and the membership will generally feel things out, and in most of the extreme cases, a majority of the members will reach some sort of loose consensus- which in my opinion is exactly what's happened with this whole "Enoch" debacle. You may not like, or agree with the conclusion that I and other members have reached, but it certainly doesnt make it any less valid or worthwhile because you see it differently.

It is just as important, if not more so, for us members who continue to ask the "tough questions" to do so, than it is for those who choose to accept anecdotal evidence as "fact", to keep taking people completely at they're word.

No one twisted SB's arm to come on here and discuss his situation, and while he (and you) may not like some of the questions being asked- that's no reason to stop people from asking them.

Oh, and PLEASE spare me the lecture regarding how I and other member's are conducting ourselves.

I can honestly say that with very few exceptions, that the vast majority of members here have been nothing but polite to SwampBandit. Many have just grown increasingly tired and frustrated by the changing stories, ignored questions, doublespeak, and attitude that's been exhibited by this person.

Art

[Guest StankApe]

Dangit, I couldn't plus ya Art, I'm fresh out!

But that sir, was exactly the same thing that rattles around my brain on here sometimes. I'm a skeptic , but to some folks that seems to mean I think Bigfoot is an illusion and i'm out to call everyone names and such. I see being a skeptic as asking the hard questions, making sure the data is correct and waiting for the evidence to back up ANY incredible statement.... I don't think that's a bad thing. i think it's how these sorts of things are supposed to go.

I can't say that I'm the only one in the world who can spin my head 360 degrees and then scoff when asked to do so (or provide a video to prove it) I've stepped into that by making my incredible statement.Some people may complain that they get harassed for photos and that they "choose" to not show them for fear of ridicule or that they don't want their story to be picked apart.... Well, then you shouldn't have brought up your incredibly unlikely story to begin with!!! If I hear that you have a Squatch living next door and his name is Bob and he likes Beechnut chew and the Packers.... Well, I kinda would figure you might have a picture of Bob and his spitoon wearing his Brett Farve Jersey...Call me crazy... but I wasn't the one who made the "out there" statement am I?

[Guest swamp bandit]

Its like kicking a bee hive when I come on here, I need to build a fire so I can smoke you off me...wow. So that's one vote off am I right?

[Guest Luckyfoot]

Its like kicking a bee hive when I come on here, I need to build a fire so I can smoke you off me...wow. So that's one vote off am I right?

HI Swamp Bandit.

Noob to the site and and haven't read yur book as of yet. From a completely uninvested perspective this is an interesting thread. It's easy to feel persecuted , you are sharing your story and yourself when you post on here.

I can't help but feel that anything requested here based on your claims is not unrealistic. You are attempting to publish a second book about your experience, but want to keep them a secret ?

It would seem a photo would help your cause, 1) a little pre-hype for next book 2) certainly put to rest any doubts of your claims 3) honestly would be interesting as hell.

I really feel nobody wants to "vote you off " btw.

I enjoy yur posts.

Gonna have to read that book now !

all the best ! L.F.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Luckyfoot

[Guest Knuck]

Once again, I don't come on this "informal internet forum" trying to make claims to most that are here either just reading, or participating. I refer my statements

(about what goes on around my house ) to the people here who have similar experiences, and want to learn more. It is obvious who those are that don't want to

learn. Especially as this is supposed to be the "one stop shop" of Bigfootery. Appears I stepped on some toes. BP, I was referring to some others and one in

specific, so called "researcher".

I won't apologize for not providing proof, as the ones I wish to reach, and learn from, are in similar positions. Sorry if you aren't one of them. That's not my

fault.

And SA, Look how many posts you've made in just under a month. So many words, so

little said.

No one showed me the rule in the forum guidelines where anyone has to believe anything said here. I also haven't seen the rule that requires anyone to provide

anyone else with an ounce of proof, so demand anything you want.

And for those here who favor the author over the subject, were you there? Do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt what AW's motivations became as the story

of "Enoch" developed? I've seen for myself all the people that want to be your buddy when they find out you know something, soon as you give a little, the dam

bursts, and they expect all thier questions to be answered "right now!" To them, there is no other remedy, and I for one, won't provide it. Sorry if that

doesn't fit into everyones neat little situation, but that's how it is.

You who say you don't believe, and demand that myself and others here submit proof for your entertainment, Ret Butler put it succinctly. And it's not just my

sentiment either. So as you jump up and down, screaming ! and demanding we show our cards, keep that thought. This is my opinion, made in the USA (with real

genuine Sasquatch tracks all around it)-Knuck

Edited November 7, 2011 by grayjay
quoted edited post

[Incorrigible1]

It is heartening to me to realize I've submitted every bit as much evidence as most of the heavy-hitting "researchers" that denigrate non-researchers.

One difference: I don't make extraordinary claims nor huff and puff when asked for evidence of their postings.

[bipedalist]

Wrong I won't be back if voted off, and as far as a photo goes if I put one on here it will be all over the place in less than a day.

And I don't want that to happen I don't want to see his mug on lets say the bfro site, or any other site.

I know you guys are just busting my chops but it gets old after awhile. And when I don't take the bait you say I won't answer the hard questions.

So make it quick I got things to do tonight.

There are several members on the FMT (Masterbarber-Director and HRPuffnstuff-Chief) who have been recipients of confidential information in cases like this. With your permission (and theirs obviously) you send a picture to them (not with you in your underwear), they analyze it keep it to themselves and describe it to the rest of the membership. They give us a confidence percentage on how it rates up against some of the average blobsquatches here. It could be done with their permission and done so in a confidential way.

Just an idea short of a "vote-off the island" scenario which I don't think would be preferable.

[Sasfooty]

It is heartening to me to realize I've submitted every bit as much evidence as most of the heavy-hitting "researchers" that denigrate non-researchers.

Sorry I missed all that evidence you have posted!

Do you have a linky?

Let me ask you a question... If I was a new member who came on here tomorrow, and started telling stories about how I've seen Bigfoot's flap their arms real hard, take off, and fly up and over the trees- would you believe me?

Sadly, with some of the members who post on here, I suspect the question might just be "Well, how high did he go?"

I'd be skeptical, because everybody that knows anything, knows they don't have to flap their arms.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Sasfooty

[Guest]

SB? You mean the same guy that came on said that he was planning on suing Autumn at law? I'd think the snuggly, cuddly Kumbaya crowd would be rushing to her defence and grinding this gents bones to powder. His antics have forced the woman into hiding and to give up active publication and research altogether. SB destroyed his credability when he admitted to lying about the whole story, that was forgiveable to a degree, but to say you lied about lying takes you past the point of no return in my book without postive proof of all what you claim. Man to man, if you want to regain any semblance of trust it's time to put up or shut up.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Tautriadelta

[Sasfooty]

Considering how much you all value proof & evidence, I'm surprised nobody has actually showed us a quote of some of this slanderous stuff that has SB said here.

[Guest Jodie]

It is heartening to me to realize I've submitted every bit as much evidence as most of the heavy-hitting "researchers" that denigrate non-researchers.

One difference: I don't make extraordinary claims nor huff and puff when asked for evidence of their postings.

And that would be zip.

[Guest]

Considering how much you all value proof & evidence, I'm surprised nobody has actually showed us a quote of some of this slanderous stuff that has SB said here.

swamp bandit, on 14 April 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

I think this has gone on long enough and has gotten way out of hand from day one. I just read AW,s last blog and I can see its time to knock this in the head once and for all. I see she let me have the last word on the apology to all the mikes blog. That's not my last word, my last word will be in court as I'm filing a lawsuit against her. My attorney is putting it together and it will be filed soon and I will have my day in court.

And for the rest of you fine folks everyone keeps guessing as to who I am, why don't you just ask me.

I will be glad to tell you as it will come out in court anyway and be public record.

I'm sorry it has come to this but I'm tired as I know you are of this Enoch mess. And my attorney tells me this is the only way to make it go away. If she won't respect my wish's and do the right thing maybe a judge will make her.

If you have any questions I will try to answer them as honest as I can, like I said its time to put this to rest once and for all.

Swamp Bandit (quote)

And as far as me writing a book with proof, well if the truth has to be known I have no proof. Never did never will I did see a skunk ape a couple of times.

Everything I told her in the book and other wise is nothing but a story I had made up long ago. the places are real but nothing else is.

And I told her that it was all a bunch of made up stories. She told me there's no way you could be making this up. Unless you have either been doing this as long as I have, or you are really doing all the things you say you are doing. I did tell her the truth she chose to believe the lie. She even says this in the book. There is no Enoch Henry Shelby or any other skunk apes. I have been writing stories for years and big foot was one of the things I wrote about.

All I had to do was open the file I already had for years. I can't prove Enoch exist but I can prove where I was on Thanksgiving day 2009 and it wasn't on no river getting slapped around by a skunk ape. I told her about a skunk ape I call Father time and I told her he could talk and I had a long talk with him.

Does anybody believe they can talk? well she did and still does. I have a lot of big foot stories and I tell them to the kids at camp, and guess what they don't believe a word of any of them. The only reason I came on here was to help boost book sales and I think I did just that. That way I get more in the suit. So I no longer require this forum my work here is done if someone will please pull the plug on swamp bandit it would be helpful.

Yet here he is back again, stirring the proverbial pot.

You can always pull the plug yourself.

Edited November 7, 2011 by Tautriadelta

[Cisco]

swamp bandit, on 14 April 2011 - 08:41 PM, said:

I think this has gone on long enough and has gotten way out of hand from day one. I just read AW,s last blog and I can see its time to knock this in the head once and for all. I see she let me have the last word on the apology to all the mikes blog. That's not my last word, my last word will be in court as I'm filing a lawsuit against her. My attorney is putting it together and it will be filed soon and I will have my day in court.

And for the rest of you fine folks everyone keeps guessing as to who I am, why don't you just ask me.

I will be glad to tell you as it will come out in court anyway and be public record.

I'm sorry it has come to this but I'm tired as I know you are of this Enoch mess. And my attorney tells me this is the only way to make it go away. If she won't respect my wish's and do the right thing maybe a judge will make her.

If you have any questions I will try to answer them as honest as I can, like I said its time to put this to rest once and for all.

Swamp Bandit (quote)

And as far as me writing a book with proof, well if the truth has to be known I have no proof. Never did never will I did see a skunk ape a couple of times.

Everything I told her in the book and other wise is nothing but a story I had made up long ago. the places are real but nothing else is.

And I told her that it was all a bunch of made up stories. She told me there's no way you could be making this up. Unless you have either been doing this as long as I have, or you are really doing all the things you say you are doing. I did tell her the truth she chose to believe the lie. She even says this in the book. There is no Enoch Henry Shelby or any other skunk apes. I have been writing stories for years and big foot was one of the things I wrote about.

All I had to do was open the file I already had for years. I can't prove Enoch exist but I can prove where I was on Thanksgiving day 2009 and it wasn't on no river getting slapped around by a skunk ape. I told her about a skunk ape I call Father time and I told her he could talk and I had a long talk with him.

Does anybody believe they can talk? well she did and still does. I have a lot of big foot stories and I tell them to the kids at camp, and guess what they don't believe a word of any of them. The only reason I came on here was to help boost book sales and I think I did just that. That way I get more in the suit. So I no longer require this forum my work here is done if someone will please pull the plug on swamp bandit it would be helpful.

Yet here he is back again, stirring the proverbial pot.

You can always pull the plug yourself.

I had forgotten how egregious this was...

He claimed that he told Autumn is was all a lie and she still published the book? What an awful thing to say and do. Then he comes back and swears that he was lying about lying....

No apologies and he's upset that nobody believes him?

He won't show us any evidence and he won't write a book. Enoch was published because of Autumn. SB won't publish a book because that requires effort and skill. It's much easier to show up on a forum and make claims that can't be proven or checked on.

[Guest]

Thanks Tautriadelta, for doing the digging on those posts...

Those are the one's that I remembered reading this Spring.

They are exactly what I had in mind over the last couple days while commenting on this mess.

Seriously, after reading them, is there really much left that needs to be said?

Time is a valuable resource, more precious than money or gold, and its not infinite.

Even after reading what's above, some will want to continue investing their time in the "feel good" tour, and keep asking the warm and fuzzy questions, and offering encouragement.

No doubt, this person will continue to tell you his "made up stories" he admittedly (see above 2nd quote) loves to tell, and in return he gets the attention that's so desperately craved, or worse he get's a good laugh at your expense- noting how easily he can pass off tales simply created in his own (notable) imagination.

You know, maybe I should write a book... I've got some pretty good writing skills, and I've had plenty of interesting experiences in my life- and a healthy imagination to boot...

I'm pretty darn sure I could write a terrifying, humorous, and entertaining Bigfoot book, just using parts, descriptions, and details I've gleaned from years of reading other peoples stories. Then of course with an active imagination, I could embellish certain details, and add all kinds of interesting little factoids and odd things- that would humanize the beast, and draw people even further into the tale....

Might be fun, and hey- who knows, might even earn a few bucks.... You just never know.

Hey, on second thought- SwampBandit, shoot me a PM bud.. maybe we could work something out- your stories, and my noticeably better writing ability?

We could kill this project in no time!! Maybe we could do an old fashioned serial piece- like they used to have in magazines. You know, you give them a little more each month, make sure it ends on a cliffhanger, and man they'll be chomping at the bit each month to get the next "Outdoor Life" or maybe "Field and Stream".. with our next juicy adventure waiting for them inside !

Ok, aside from any future writing collaborations between SB and myself, i'm pretty much done in this thread. I think I'll just go back to reading it occasionally for a good chuckle when im feeling blue, or when things get too serious and i need a break from reality....

Art