Enoch

[Sasfooty]

edited....

You have a problem with me as a moderator Sasfooty- fine take it up with the admins....

Do not take me to task in a public thread again....

Edited November 9, 2011 by Art1972
to remove comment about mod...

[Guest]

Multiple Violations....shutting down thread for cooling off period and Moderation.

[Guest]

Well, I've re-opened this thread and restored 11 posts that were marked as *unapproved*.

The Mod who closed the thread made a great decision as a *cooling off* period was probably needed.

The posts that were unapproved, as well as the decision to close the thread, were done so in anticipation/expectation of an Admin decision regarding each.

I gave it a day or so to allow some time to cool off and I then restored the posts and reopened the thread because I did not see anything too out of line.

Probably a couple of posts close to the line, but I did not find them exceeding it.

I don't want to limit discussion if it can be avoided. I'd just ask that everyone remain mindful of the Rules & Guidelines and make sure their ensuing posts are respectful of them.

I used the following in my determination...

> Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. On the BFF we accept very little at face value. We may have a tendency to over-analyze claims and be more skeptical than some other forums dedicated to this topic, but we think that is preferable to the alternative.

The forum Staff is on hand to keep things in play and make sure things remain impersonal and within the confines of the Rules & Guidelines of the forum.

Nothing at all wrong with members questioning the story of SB. It is an extraordinary claim and there hasn't been any viable means of supportive evidence provided.

In fact, quite the opposite IMO. When pressed, SB admits it was all a hoax and says we/the BF community are gullible and too easy to hoax.

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I have very little appreciation for someone that admits to taking advantage of my willingness/desire to believe.

For those of you who buy his bull-hockey, I would just say to read his numerous posts here that have admitted to fraud.

For those who have had similar experiences I'm not too sure what to say in all honesty.

I'm envious of your situation I reckon.

But I would caution all to consider the fickle nature of the posts of SB, the times he has admitted and taken glee in deceiving the community, and put two and two together.

Reminds me of the old Cheech and Chong skit about dog poo and not stepping in it.

[Guest Knuck]

I find a small problem with the "extraordinary claims" quote and this forums repeated use of it, and requirement that we "follow it to the letter". If I recall

correctly, this famous comment was made by a rather famous scientist, and was directed toward scientific claims. Now, I have no problem with this, as that is how

it should be. However, we are, and have been repeatedly reminded that this forum is clearly for "entertainment" purposes only, and isn't intended to be the

presentation place for genuine scientific evidence, or a place for what is presented to be treated as such. Someone needs to make up thier mind. There are quite a

few here who think everything said here should be analysed with the scrutiny of the most discerning scientists on the face of the earth. This goes directly against

the intent of this forum. In the lab, you can dissect, scrutinize, and test everything you see and hear. This is not the lab. The discussion here isn't supposed to

present for anyone's gratification, all the answers wrapped up in a neat package. I'm not saying any of this in defence of SB or myself or anyone else. It's just

the truth, and should not offend anyone. Just something to think about, and remember the true intent of this place in which we all congregate to ponder what is, or

isn't. Just my opinion-Knuck

[Guest]

Just to note- the following is my personal take on the situation, and is not being made as any "official" statement by staff. If anyone would like to respond or disagree with my opinion, you are more than welcome too...!

I find a small problem with the "extraordinary claims" quote and this forums repeated use of it, and requirement that we "follow it to the letter".

Knuck- I dont think anyones saying it has to be followed to the letter, as you put it...

I'd say its similar in fashion to this guideline- and note the bold part..

"> Bigfoot are probably flesh and blood animals, albeit very intelligent and stealthy ones. Bigfoot are unlikely to be inter-dimensional, of another world, shape shifting, can disappear, or have any other abilities that may be considered paranormal. If you feel they are any of these things, you're still very welcome to participate, but don't expect to find many in your camp."

I would interpret it the same way- you are welcome to make any claim you want on here, no matter how silly or ridiculous anyone may find it.

Making that claim as "fact" whether its in regards to something paranormal, or a habituation, and it being something you're claiming you've experienced yourself, is naturally going to raise the curiousity of the membership.

When members go another step and make claims that they possess evidence of said claim, but refuse to share it- they shouldnt be surprised when that's met with some doubt and a sense of bewilderment. No one can be forced or compelled to share something they dont want to, but on the flip side they shouldnt be surprised when that decision isnt a popular one.

Some may take you completely at your word, some may have some doubt but remain open minded, and some will be incredulous without some sort of evidence being shared. All of those views have to be allowed- and its not fair for some to take offense because they're claim isnt universally accepted as "fact".

However, we are, and have been repeatedly reminded that this forum is clearly for "entertainment" purposes only, and isn't intended to be the presentation place for genuine scientific evidence, or a place for what is presented to be treated as such. Someone needs to make up thier mind.

Again- this might be more about how im interpreting it- but when you say "entertainment"- that's a word I associate with fiction Knuck...

If someone wants to write out experiences while making it clear that they're not based on actual events- fine. I enjoy reading a good story every once in a while- to be entertained.

A member making a claim that "these events happen/happened to me", that's non-fiction, and while it may be "entertaining" to discuss, its not the same.

Same as above- some will accept it more willingly than others- but again, the burden of, or work necessary to get members to accept an account of a past or ongoing event- falls in the lap of the person making the claim.

The stranger or more out of the ordinary the claim gets- there is a an equal and corresponding rise in skepticism on most members parts- including those who like myself actually do believe in the existence of Bigfoot/Sasquatch.

The "whipped cream and cherry on top" of these situations, is when members themselves go a step further and suggest that they posess a little/some/alot of evidence to back up they're claims, but for whatever reason dont "feel compelled" to share it.

Well to that I say "fine", but the way it appears to many is like this:

The initial claim is made.

It's met with acceptance by some, and by others its met with scrutiny, doubt and questions.

The claim-maker than asserts- "well i have a picture of it"....

Then a "game" begins, because most people will interpret "i have a picture of it"- to be an offer to show you a piece of evidence to back up their initial claim.

When that member chooses to stonewall, and not follow through, its natural that some are going to be exasperated and claim "foul".

It should not rise to the level of ridicule, but on the other hand members claiming perpetual "victim" status because people ask them to back up their claims is a bit overly dramatic in my opinion.

There are quite a few here who think everything said here should be analysed with the scrutiny of the most discerning scientists on the face of the earth.

This goes directly against the intent of this forum. In the lab, you can dissect, scrutinize, and test everything you see and hear. This is not the lab. The discussion here isn't supposed to present for anyone's gratification, all the answers wrapped up in a neat package.

Knuck- this whole statement is contradictory..

Your doing the same thing that you accuse the more scientific folks of doing.

Your trying to describe or dictate what "the intent" of these forums is, as you see it.

When in actuality the "intent" of the forums (as stated in the guidelines) is for people of all different backgrounds and views to be able to share ideas, discuss and debate those ideas, and that what each member is looking for, and expects to get out of the forums, is up to them .

Just because you dont want to see a "scientific analysis" of a certain topic, or a dissenting view on a theory, or even just someone expressing that they dont believe someone elses story- doesnt negate that they have just as much right to express their view.

It may be the case in some instances where the things we believe, or feel, or have experienced are challenged on these forums, but that's unfortunately part of the package.

I personally wouldnt want it any other way.

Art

[indiefoot]

What I find offensive are the attempts to censor, the "put up or shut up" posts.

[Guest]

Since you asked nicely, Yes Yes Yes the photos will be in the book front cover back cover and a few inside. This book will be more detailed than the other one.

It will be most of the story going back to 1973 when I had my first sighting up until present day interactions. It will be a book that will go against everything people think they know about the big guys. It's a book based on fact not someones best guess it will all be backed up with proof.

It won't include personal things in my life or my reasons for living in the swamp. That's going in another book that I have a ghost writer working on as we speak, and has nothing to do with the big guys.

And a teaser for ya, the DNA reports suggest they are Human but they are lower down on the Evolutionary trail than us.

I was told by the people doing the test that they feel they are close enough to us that we could breed with them.

Also they can mimic almost any animal they choose to, which makes it easy for them to learn to mimic us.

Another words they can be taught to speak our language and talk to us. The problem is when they talk they sound like Yoda from star wars.

Its hard for them to phrase their sentences properly so the words come out not in the right order.

This is whats going to be in the book like I said it's out there and will change everything you thought you knew about the big guys.

When will this book be released? Will it have the same title?

[Guest Jodie]

I think Puff said it best, consider the source here, no one else has come on here and freely admitted that they were lying on more than one occasion. If you want to pick a poster child for the oppressed habituator's of bigfoot world I believe you can do better than SB. You are certainly free to listen to this bull all you want, but we are equally justified in expressing our disdain in what can only be described as pathological behavior. Censorship has very little to do with this particular situation IMO.

[Guest]

What I find offensive are the attempts to censor, the "put up or shut up" posts.

What if it was phrased differently Indie- like :

"Please put up a photo, or stop bombarding us daily with claims that you have one"...

Same intent/meaning- said in a more polite manner....

Now, is it still "offensive"...? and if so, please tell me why...?

[indiefoot]

The word "stop"!!!

I like "Either put up a photo or I will no longer believe anything you say, but by golly I will fight for your right to say it."

[Guest Knuck]

Art, thank you ever so much for your critique of my post. I understand your position, and I respect it. However I am not dictating here. Someone else has already

done that, by coming up with the guidlines to begin with. The same ones that we get reminded of everytime someone doesn't believe what we say. I am once again, not

defending or speaking for Swamp Bandit, or anyone else. The true-false, back and forth method he has presented would understandingly T off most folks. I don't

believe every word out of his mouth either. But doesn't anyone but me understand, he has deliberately ruined his credibility here? Not by accident, but by design.

Don't know why, don't care. I would think people were nuts if they agreed with everything everyone else said. But, it's the method by which the disagreements

happen here, (and rather often) that gripes me. Less manners, and more confrontation. Why is that? People certainly wouldn't present arguments to strangers in such

a manner if they were face to face. And even though it is the internet, for what this forum is supposed to be, a quantity of decorum would seem to be applicable

here.I don't care what someones view is, if it's presented to me in a mutually respectful manner, I have no problem whatsoever with it.

Once again, Just my opinion.-Knuck

[bipedalist]

I think Puff said it best, consider the source here, no one else has come on here and freely admitted that they were lying on more than one occasion. If you want to pick a poster child for the oppressed habituator's of bigfoot world I believe you can do better than SB. You are certainly free to listen to this bull all you want, but we are equally justified in expressing our disdain in what can only be described as pathological behavior. Censorship has very little to do with this particular situation IMO.

What follows is my opinion as a member not a BFF person with a title that helps out here.

Yes, what she said! Knuck, usually when we see this kind of repeat "self-immolation" from a member (that actually comes across as a guest celebrity), first thing that goes through one's mind is.....who are they impersonating and for what reason are they self-destructing on forum?

Usually the answer can be found in the 1/4 inch thick, "Treatise on the Behavior of Internet Forum Victims that some call Sock Puppets and Other's call Trolls"

Not always, but it is not a gamble to head down this road: usually. I personally find the behavior revolting and not worthy of long-winded explanations.

Sorry to the membership if I've exceeded my character count in this one. Next thread please.

[Guest Knuck]

edited for double post-Knuck

Edited November 11, 2011 by Knuck

[Guest]

Dangit, I couldn't plus ya Art, I'm fresh out!

But that sir, was exactly the same thing that rattles around my brain on here sometimes. I'm a skeptic , but to some folks that seems to mean I think Bigfoot is an illusion and i'm out to call everyone names and such. I see being a skeptic as asking the hard questions, making sure the data is correct and waiting for the evidence to back up ANY incredible statement.... I don't think that's a bad thing. i think it's how these sorts of things are supposed to go.

I can't say that I'm the only one in the world who can spin my head 360 degrees and then scoff when asked to do so (or provide a video to prove it) I've stepped into that by making my incredible statement.Some people may complain that they get harassed for photos and that they "choose" to not show them for fear of ridicule or that they don't want their story to be picked apart.... Well, then you shouldn't have brought up your incredibly unlikely story to begin with!!! If I hear that you have a Squatch living next door and his name is Bob and he likes Beechnut chew and the Packers.... Well, I kinda would figure you might have a picture of Bob and his spitoon wearing his Brett Farve Jersey...Call me crazy... but I wasn't the one who made the "out there" statement am I?

To StankApe:

Don't worry, I was able to post my vote. In 24 hours you will have a new point to use where you may wish to use it.

Hugs to you from me....

[Guest]

Gotcha Knuck... I liked your second post, the one you put up in response to mine.

Think you explained yourself a little better that time- and there is definitely some common ground to meet on...

I think sometimes in the heat of the moment, lots of us could probably stop for a few seconds and choose our words a little more carefully...

Ill give my word here tonight, to be a little more open minded, and patient with some of those, who I have found somtimes great frustration with in the past...

Ok, I've got 3 hours of driving ahead of me, ill check in later to see how everyone's doing- have a good night..

Art