Bigfoot Makes House Calls?

[Woodslore]

it's the cornerstone of my career

Just curious and not meaning to be rude but what is you career?

[Sasfooty]

Please forgive my grave ignorance in identifying different animals by the sounds they make (despite the fact that it's the cornerstone of my career),

Since I'm not paying you, I suppose I can forgive you. Maybe you'll hear a bigfoot someday, & then you'll be able to tell the difference.

but you still haven't demonstrated how you can tell bigfoot coyote calls from coyote coyote calls.

OK, I'll try again.(Imagine me talking very slowly & clearly.) This is a picture of the window where I have spent 4 to 5 hours a night sitting, & listening to them, for nearly 5 years.

That Bionic Ear that you can see there picks up every noise in that direction for up to a mile or more, but it doesn't need to do that, because there are usually some BFs less than 50 yards away, in the woods just in front of the window. Up until last fall, they made no effort whatsoever to be quiet. I think I've probably heard every noise that they make up to & including giving birth, (although that was much farther away).

I have sat at that window, with headphones on, & heard one howl so close that it shut down the "ear". It was no coyote, no wolf, no human with an especially loud voice, nobody's television. It was a BIGFOOT. I have seen them walking around out there on bright nights, & heard them crunching leaves or gravel when they walk close to the house. I am not stupid, & I know what I have seen & heard.

If you are so good at identifying animals by their calls, (which I'm beginning to wonder about), you should know that experience teaches you. I've had a lot of experience. I pay attention. I can tell which cow is mooing out in the pasture, (we only have a few now, so it isn't hard to do). I can tell which cat is meowing, & which horse I'm hearing.

And I can tell the difference between a BF whooping & a coyote howling. I don't know how much plainer I can make it. Either you believe it or you don't. I have no reason to lie. Do you think it's fun to be ridiculed & mocked just because you want to share some of your experiences with others that might be interested?

Edited November 2, 2010 by Sasfooty

[Guest]

Just curious and not meaning to be rude but what is you career?

I'm a wildlife ecologist who primarily studies habitat use by entire communities of songbirds. When doing surveys for this kind of work, we rarely actually see the birds we're counting - as much as 95% of the individuals we encounter are based on aural recognition of species-specific songs and calls. So I spend a lot of my time trying to make sure I can tell "chirp!" from "chirp?" from "churp", etc. Folks who are good at identifying birds by song and call hone those skills through lifetimes of field work, study of recordings, and for the difficult ones, things like spectrogram analysis that permit the statistical separation of sounds that might sound really similar to our human ears.

This is why I'm critical of uncritical statements regarding purported bigfoot vocalizations.

[Woodslore]

Impressive sir. I am still studying the different sounds of various animals so I can understand them better myself. Though mine is not due to my work but rather it is for personal interest and reasons.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Woodslore

[Guest]

Do you think it's fun to be ridiculed & mocked just because you want to share some of your experiences with others that might be interested?

I've neither ridiculed nor mocked you Sasfooty. If anything, I have exhibited remarkable restraint in trying to learn more about the extraordinary claims you've made. It is frustrating, for example, to ask you how you know something and have you respond - several times mocking me for my obvious inexperience - with the fact that you "just know." That doesn't explain how you know.

That Bionic Ear that you can see there picks up every noise in that direction for up to a mile or more, but it doesn't need to do that, because there are usually some BFs less than 50 yards away, in the woods just in front of the window. Up until last fall, they made no effort whatsoever to be quiet. I think I've probably heard every noise that they make up to & including giving birth, (although that was much farther away).

I have sat at that window, with headphones on, & heard one howl so close that it shut down the "ear". It was no coyote, no wolf, no human with an especially loud voice, nobody's television. It was a BIGFOOT. I have seen them walking around out there on bright nights, & heard them crunching leaves or gravel when they walk close to the house. I am not stupid, & I know what I have seen & heard.

. . .

And I can tell the difference between a BF whooping & a coyote howling. I don't know how much plainer I can make it. Either you believe it or you don't. I have no reason to lie.

Here again, you explain that you have had bigfoots close to your house and you have recorded loud howls. You are, however, assuming that the howls you have recorded are coming from the bigfoots. If you also have coyotes in your area - and you think that the bigfoots "run with them" - then it follows that you could have had coyotes close to the house on the same days you think you had bigfoots close to the house. Unless you've seen the animal making the sound, why conclude that it's the bigfoot that made it? That's the part we're not seeing in your posts.

I'm not angry with you and I'm not trying to mock you. I'm merely trying to understand your thought process in presenting some of the claims you've made. Please understand that according to mainstream science, hundreds of years of exploration across multiple continents has not turned up a single piece of corroborating physical evidence to support the existence of something like a bigfoot. We lack even a single, definitive photo. Yet you claim rather frequent encounters with such creatures under rather mundane conditions (around your home), to the point that you're now claiming that you've heard a bigfoot give birth. Surely you can appreciate that anyone with a modicum of scientific literacy would receive such a claim skeptically.

[Guest]

Impressive sir. I am style studying the different sounds of various animals so I can understand them better myself. Though mine is not due to my work but rather it is for personal interest and reasons.

Thanks, but it's no more impressive than any other skill at which one invests the time, e.g., fluency with a 2nd language or playing the piano. My kids still blow me away with their ability to read music.

[Guest]

Again, I apologise if my comment was uncalled for and I'd definitely not complain if a mod deleted it.

No worries Gershake.

Yes it always comes up that if a skeptic asks pointed questions we risk scaring away people who might have interesting stories to share. I actually don't buy that argument. The ones who cry and run away are, to me, the ones most likely to be 100% full of manure. The ones who stick around and simply answer questions best they can - acknowledging how crazy what they're writing might sound - are the ones that deserve a closer look.

Sasfooty is one of the latter. She's ("she?") been pretty good about sticking around and answering questions. Given the extraordinary claims she's made (e.g., the latest being audio of a bigfoot in labor), however, I've been biting my figurative lip in my responses, precisely to encourage her to stay and better explain the things that have led her to conclude that she's having so much bigfoot activity around her home. If I've stepped over the line in some of my responses, I'm sorry.

[Woodslore]

I can't read music but I can call in a squirrel from the time their call is a whisper to them being 6 feet away and wondering where the other squirrel is.

[Guest]

Well, I met a girl in Alabama that would constantly have them hitting her house when she closed her blinds especially. She was a blonde, fit and fairly attractive, so I asked her if she ever ran around the house in little to nothing with the blinds open. She said, "Hell yes, I live in the middle of the woods with over 100 acres, so who's going to see." I just shook my head and said it's no wonder you have them beating on your house. I told her that I might be over later than night with some popcorn asking the sas to move over so I can have some room to watch. LOL This area has a lot of activity. Anyway, just one of a plethora of examples.

A house built in the center of 100 acres is just a little over 1000' from the nearest property line and a hot blond running around naked at night inside that house, with the lights on, finds the most likely culprit for knocking on her house to be BF?

[Incorrigible1]

A house built in the center of 100 acres is just a little over 1000' from the nearest property line and a hot blond running around naked at night inside that house, with the lights on, finds the most likely culprit for knocking on her house to be BF?

::pssst: I think it's Wickie::

[Sasfooty]

I'm a wildlife ecologist who primarily studies habitat use by entire communities of songbirds. When doing surveys for this kind of work, we rarely actually see the birds we're counting - as much as 95% of the individuals we encounter are based on aural recognition of species-specific songs and calls.

Do you mean to say that you are counting birds by the sounds they make & only see 5% of what you are counting???? Do we taxpayers actually spend our money for this sort of thing? You are counting "birds" that may not be birds at all.

How do you know that one or two birds aren't following you around getting counted 50 times each? How do you know it isn't someone out there making bird calls just to fool you? How do you know you aren't hearing a parrot, pretending to be that particular bird, or someone's TV? How do you know it isn't coyotes if you aren't actually SEEING what you are counting? For that matter, how do you know it isn't a bigfoot out there whistling? YOU DON'T KNOW!!! But yet you expect to be believed when you "estimate" how many birds are there. Frankly, I'm skeptical as to whether you are getting your count right. You could be making some extraordinary claims.

I'm dead serious about this, & would appreciate some detailed answers. It's amazing to me that you can actually count birds that you can't see!!!

So I spend a lot of my time trying to make sure I can tell "chirp!" from "chirp?" from "churp", etc.

This is why I'm critical of uncritical statements regarding purported bigfoot vocalizations.

I spend a lot of my time making sure I can tell a whoop from a yip from a bark, but you seem to think you are the only one that is capable of mastering such a complicated feat.

to the point that you're now claiming that you've heard a bigfoot give birth.

This is what I said about a BF giving birth: "I think I've probably heard every noise that they make up to & including giving birth, (although that was much farther away)."

I didn't say that I positively heard it. What I heard sounded like a woman giving birth, (and being one who has, I think I'm qualified to know the sounds) but it could have been something else, & I'm making no claims. Just telling what I heard.

It is frustrating, for example, to ask you how you know something and have you respond - several times mocking me for my obvious inexperience - with the fact that you "just know."

And please be so kind as to point out where I ever said "I just know". I may have said "I know what I heard" but if I did, I probably explained why I know. Also, I am no more mocking you than you are mocking me.

Edited November 2, 2010 by Sasfooty

[Guest midnightwalker1]

Do you mean to say that you are counting birds by the sounds they make & only see 5% of what you are counting???? Do we taxpayers actually spend our money for this sort of thing? You are counting "birds" that may not be birds at all.

How do you know that one or two birds aren't following you around getting counted 50 times each? How do you know it isn't someone out there making bird calls just to fool you? How do you know you aren't hearing a parrot, pretending to be that particular bird, or someone's TV? How do you know it isn't coyotes if you aren't actually SEEING what you are counting? For that matter, how do you know it isn't a bigfoot out there whistling? YOU DON'T KNOW!!! But yet you expect to be believed when you "estimate" how many birds are there. Frankly, I'm skeptical as to whether you are getting your count right. You could be making some extraordinary claims.

I'm dead serious about this, & would appreciate some detailed answers. It's amazing to me that you can actually count birds that you can't see!!!

I spend a lot of my time making sure I can tell a whoop from a yip from a bark, but you seem to think you are the only one that is capable of mastering such a complicated feat.

This is what I said about a BF giving birth: "I think I've probably heard every noise that they make up to & including giving birth, (although that was much farther away)."

I didn't say that I positively heard it. What I heard sounded like a woman giving birth, (and being one who has, I think I'm qualified to know the sounds) but it could have been something else, & I'm making no claims. Just telling what I heard.

And please be so kind as to point out where I ever said "I just know". I may have said "I know what I heard" but if I did, I probably explained why I know. Also, I am no more mocking you than you are mocking me.

This is a classic. BTW, sasyfoot have you heard one pass gas. I heard a sas let one go and didn't know if I should laugh or be serious. He/she did it from maybe 15-20 feet away (very dark and no visual). I just sat there with eyes wide open wishing I had eaten some Waffle House so I could raise him one. LOL Never heard a baby though and especially not the childbirth. That would be something. Have heard the little ones fighting over something I left in the woods one time. Take care and good post.

[Sasfooty]

BTW, sasyfoot have you heard one pass gas. I heard a sas let one go and didn't know if I should laugh or be serious. He/she did it from maybe 15-20 feet away (very dark and no visual). I just sat there with eyes wide open wishing I had eaten some Waffle House so I could raise him one. LOL Never heard a baby though and especially not the childbirth. That would be something. Have heard the little ones fighting over something I left in the woods one time. Take care and good post.

Ya know, I think I may have, but the horses were down that way that night, so it could have been one of them. It was a big one, whoever it was. You could have belched back at them. Almost everybody can do that even without eating at Waffle House.

I heard some little ones beating on an aluminum gate one night. It went on for awhile until they started giggling & squealing & then I heard a loud "EHK", & everything went dead quiet. Their kids mind a lot better that most of ours.

[Guest]

I'm dead serious about this, & would appreciate some detailed answers. It's amazing to me that you can actually count birds that you can't see!!!

First a bit of perspective Sasfooty:

When I do a summer bird survey and report that I heard a Red-eyed Vireo on that survey, I'm reporting an encounter with one of the most abundant and widespread vertebrates in North America. It's not an extraordinary encounter at all, therefore, no additional documentation is requested from records committees to establish the record. Other conditions, however, make such a record more unusual, and a corresponding degree of ancillary information is requested before the record could be accepted. For example, if I reported hearing - but not seeing - this species in an open grassland landscape or during a month when most individuals of this species are south of the border, then I'm going to have to at least provide a detailed description of my visual confirmation of the individual. That might get the record past the records committee, but it just as likely won't. It depends on just how rare the event is that I'm reporting. For example, if I'm reporting a December record for Red-eyed Vireo from Mobile, AL, that record might go through with my description of the individual I saw; my description of "hearing one" would not cut it. If I'm reporting a Red-eyed Vireo from Manitoba in January, then there's no way my visual description will suffice - at a minimum I'll need to provide a definitive photograph. It's basically impossible to get a new state record accepted - even for a species that is widespread and abundant elsewhere - without a diagnostic photo.

As for how I know what species it is that I'm hearing when I do a survey . . . learning to identify species by song and call is a skill that's developed over time, and one develops it through exactly the process I outlined for you earlier today: go and see exactly what it is that is making the sound you hear. If the sound is weird or otherwise distinctive, you might only need to see the bird that makes it once to be fully confident of what you're hearing the next time you hear it. Think of something like woodcock displays. Once you see them, it's easy to remember the next time. Other species are more difficult to tell apart. This is because individuals within a species can vary quite a bit in the sounds they make and because different species may sound similar to begin with. For some of those I'm less confident in my ability to discern among them with high confidence, so I don't report the species unless I've seen it sing. For example, I almost always track down and get a clear visual on the bird if I'm trying distinguish between a singing Canada vs. Magnolia warbler.

So the answer to the how question is "multiple opportunities to actually view the animal making the sound, while it's making that sound." The more similar the sound is to a sound that other animals make, the more visual encounters will be necessary to instill confidence of the correct identification. As for reporting, the rarer the record, the better the justification needed. For something as piddly as a new state record for a common bird, nothing short of a clear photograph will suffice.

[Sasfooty]

That's a good answer...as to how you know which bird makes what noise, but it doesn't explain how you can get a good count by only seeing 5% of what you are counting. How do you know you aren't counting the same ones over & over.

Maybe they follow you around, hoping you'll have a sandwich & throw down a few bread crusts that they can salvage. Or maybe there's something else that makes that same exact noise, but you just never saw it.

I have also developed my knowledge over time. Think about this. Say you're sitting at a window about 2:30 one morning. There is no noise at all except an occasional dog barking off in the distance.

Then you hear a knock, not very loud, but in a few seconds, up a little closer, you hear another one. Then, within seconds, you hear a whistle that sounds exactly like a mocking bird, & then an owl hooting. You sit there waiting, & then it repeats itself, only much closer. This time, you hear "crunch, crunch...crunch....KNOCK, not 100 feet from where you are sitting. Then you hear another knock, mocking bird & owl all in different places than before. There might also be some whoops & coyote calls that move around off in the distance, but not coming close to the house.

Suppose it's a bright night, & while you're watching, you see a tall dark figure on two legs step from behind one tree to behind another one. Then, coming from the exact same spot, you hear another loud knock.

Maybe you have heard all these noises together many times before, & you lean out the window, & say "Hey guys, how's it going?" And for an answer, you hear a little rock hit the highest part of the roof & bounce down a couple of times & hit the ground.

And suppose different versions of this has been going on for 3 or 4 years, & you & 4 other people have all seen what they are convinced is BF on your property within that time.

What would you think? Just imagination? Coincidence? Not scientific enough?

Edited November 2, 2010 by Sasfooty