Why has bigfoot not been listed as an endangered species?

[Huntster]

Want an idea why government blows sasquatchery off? Try watching these two former military aviators discussing the UAP phenomenon now after there is electronic and multiple witnesses in a single event, similar to the PGF event with sasquatchery. Keep sasquatchery in mind as these guys talk about UAPs......

 

 

[georgerm]

On 10/16/2023 at 6:06 PM, Huntster said:

 

They will no sooner admit the existence of sasquatch than they will admit the existence of aliens. Ain't happening. The first step is getting the agency in front of a judge, then expose them as negligent.........by their own rules. The ESA does that. They cannot say that sasquatches don't exist if they've never studied the evidence, and they cannot say that they're not endangered if they're so rare that they say they don't exist. 

Agree and good points. What is the reason for the endangered species process not going forward to protect bigfoot? Here in Oregon as well as other states, timber sales are a huge industry. My opinion is Sasquatches and logging are compatible providing extreme environmentalist are kept in check. Once many acres have been logged or burned by fire, it's logical the bigfoots will move to another area where lots of forest exists. Some bigfoots live in steep rocky country that is not suitable for logging, so their lives are not disrupted. In my opinion the Department of Interior's biologist are ignoring bigfoot. How would you like to be a male bigfoot hunting for food or a female with babies during deer hunting season? Deer hunting is active now in Oregon and Sasquatch has no protection by strict laws? Shame on the U.S. Department of Interior that declares some creatures as endangered and ignores other candidates. 

 

Adding more evidence to classify Bigfoot as an endangered species are the Native Americans who witnessed and lived with these creatures. Look at all the tribes that called these creatures by different names. There are more too. Native American Names for Bigfoot (sunstar-solutions.com)

 

NAME	TRIBE	TRANSLATION
Yi' dyi'tay	Nehalem/Tillamook Indian	"Wild Man"
Sasahevas	Halkomelem Language Salish Indian	"Sasquatch" "Wild Man of the Woods"
Xi'lgo	Nehalem/Tillamook Indian	"Wild Woman"
Sc'wen'ey'ti	Spokane Indian	"Tall Burnt Hair""
Skanicum	Colville Indians	"Stick Indians"
Choanito	Wenatchee Indian	"Night People"
Ste ye mah	Yakama Indian	"Spirit hidden by woods"
Seatco	Yakama/Klickitat/Puyallup	"Stick Indian"
Seat ka	Yakama Indian	Not Available
See'atco	Coast Salish Indian	"One who runs and hides"

 

[Huntster]

27 minutes ago, georgerm said:

.........What is the reason for the endangered species process not going forward to protect bigfoot?.........

 

To begin with, there has been no request to list them as endangered.

[hiflier]

28 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

To begin with, there has been no request to list them as endangered.

 

There has been at the state level (NY). At the federal level, if one believes the slippery wording, the USFWS said there is no SUPPORT to put such on the endangered species list. Read it as you will.

[norseman]

57 minutes ago, georgerm said:

Agree and good points. What is the reason for the endangered species process not going forward to protect bigfoot? Here in Oregon as well as other states, timber sales are a huge industry. My opinion is Sasquatches and logging are compatible providing extreme environmentalist are kept in check. Once many acres have been logged or burned by fire, it's logical the bigfoots will move to another area where lots of forest exists. Some bigfoots live in steep rocky country that is not suitable for logging, so their lives are not disrupted. In my opinion the Department of Interior's biologist are ignoring bigfoot. How would you like to be a male bigfoot hunting for food or a female with babies during deer hunting season? Deer hunting is active now in Oregon and Sasquatch has no protection by strict laws? Shame on the U.S. Department of Interior that declares some creatures as endangered and ignores other candidates. 

 

Adding more evidence to classify Bigfoot as an endangered species are the Native Americans who witnessed and lived with these creatures. Look at all the tribes that called these creatures by different names. There are more too. Native American Names for Bigfoot (sunstar-solutions.com)

 

NAME	TRIBE	TRANSLATION
Yi' dyi'tay	Nehalem/Tillamook Indian	"Wild Man"
Sasahevas	Halkomelem Language Salish Indian	"Sasquatch" "Wild Man of the Woods"
Xi'lgo	Nehalem/Tillamook Indian	"Wild Woman"
Sc'wen'ey'ti	Spokane Indian	"Tall Burnt Hair""
Skanicum	Colville Indians	"Stick Indians"
Choanito	Wenatchee Indian	"Night People"
Ste ye mah	Yakama Indian	"Spirit hidden by woods"
Seatco	Yakama/Klickitat/Puyallup	"Stick Indian"
Seat ka	Yakama Indian	Not Available
See'atco	Coast Salish Indian	"One who runs and hides"

 

Unfortunately that is all considered mythical. Along with other Indian legends such as the Thunderbird, Ogopogo and the Wendigo….

 

Until a bloody corpse is presented to science or possibly very robust DNA evidence? Nothing will ever change.

[Huntster]

55 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

There has been at the state level (NY). At the federal level, if one believes the slippery wording, the USFWS said there is no SUPPORT to put such on the endangered species list. Read it as you will.

 

Got any documentation or link to the New York case or the USFWS statement?

 

54 minutes ago, norseman said:

Unfortunately that is all considered mythical. Along with other Indian legends such as the Thunderbird, Ogopogo and the Wendigo….

 

Is their oral history in all other matters considered mythical?

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Huntster

[norseman]

4 minutes ago, Huntster said:

 

 

 

Is their oral history in all other matters considered mythical?

 

 

I would say that’s a soft yes. I know that some Indians are madder than smashed cats with DNA tests giving them a central Asian origin.

 

Is there any oral traditions that science takes seriously? Maybe if they find something to back it up? Like the Hobbits? 
 

I certainly think it’s a mistake.

 

Most people don’t know that the oldest written story in the English language is about a mythical monster. Beowulf and Grendel. Was Grendel real? I think most of these stories have a kernel of truth to them. And humanity has a collective memory of other hominids walking the earth.

[hiflier]

27 minutes ago, Huntster said:

Got any documentation or link to the New York case or the USFWS statement?

 

No, Huntster, I just made it up 'cause I have nothing better to do but lie to you.

 

Truth is, I have already posted the documentation several times in previous threads for this Forum. The USFWS statement was in an email I received a coupla weeks ago. The NY statement was in a letter to someone requesting such a move that the NY State Department of Environmental Conservation issued back in 2012 which this very Forum issued comments on:

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by hiflier

[Huntster]

32 minutes ago, norseman said:

I would say that’s a soft yes.........

 

Agreed. The oral traditions that Science likes becomes gospel. The ones that don't become myths.

[hiflier]

27 minutes ago, hiflier said:

 

No, Huntster, I just made it up 'cause I have nothing better to do but lie to you.

 

Truth is, I have already posted the documentation several times in previous threads for this Forum. The USFWS statement was in an email I received a coupla weeks ago. The NY statement was in a letter to someone requesting such a move that the NY State Department of Environmental Conservation issued back in 2012 which this very Forum issued comments on:

 

 

 

 

How come there are no follow up comments or questions on that letter? As far as I know the requester didn't issue any follow up questions to Mr. Batcheller, Chief wildlife biologist?

[Huntster]

45 minutes ago, hiflier said:

No, Huntster, I just made it up 'cause I have nothing better to do but lie to you.........

 

Well, that is what government does. I asked for documentation because that is what becomes evidence of negligence.

 

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.........Truth is, I have already posted the documentation several times in previous threads for this Forum. The USFWS statement was in an email I received a coupla weeks ago. The NY statement was in a letter to someone requesting such a move that the NY State Department of Environmental Conservation issued back in 2012 which this very Forum issued comments on:

 

 

That document, if it was federal, is precisely what is needed to begin suit. I haven't read the NY state EPA laws, but the federal law allows any interested party to sue the government for inaction. A statement like  "This mythical animal does not exist in nature or otherwise" and "the simple truth of the matter is that there is no such animal anywhere in the World" is certainly something one might expect from a pinheaded biologist who got poor grades in English composition. Firstly, if challenged on his scientific (biologic) knowledge of such an animal existing anywhere that he has no study history in is scientific proof that his statement is null, and the simple question of whether or not he has conducted a survey of those areas he has worked for a population of such creatures would be answered as "no". Thus, he is opining, not providing scientific evidence.

 

The same is true of the feds. The complete lack of a survey is proof of:

1) No evidence of anything from the department

2) Negligence in the investigation of evidence provided by the public on lands within the departments purview

3) The need to conduct a simple survey in the region of the nation and on federal lands where evidence collected by the public indicates the highest density of the reported creatures

 

A complete lack of study, combined with a hostile refusal to conduct such a survey, is precisely why judicial review was included in the law.

 

https://ballotpedia.org/Endangered_Species_Act_and_judicial_review#:~:text=and capricious standard.-,ESA and judicial review,can be challenged in court.

 

 

Quote

..........The purpose of this comment is not to rehash what Congress has already concluded, but rather, to explain the issue of whether an agency, charged by Congress to administer the ESA, can re- fuse to take necessary enforcement measures to protect endan- gered species without triggering judicial review for abuse of agency discretion. This issue is crucial to the integrity of the ESA. If agency enforcement decisions are immune from review, then agency neglect could frustrate both the protective purpose of the Act and the intent of Congress. .........

 

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Huntster

[hiflier]

1 hour ago, Huntster said:

That document, if it was federal, is precisely what is needed to begin suit.

 

I think most of us know those points you listed in your post. The points in and of themselves do not move the needle. Yeah, they look good in a post but that's as far as anything effective goes. It's a paper tiger.

 

But the point you make with "if it was federal", if you remember has already been made by the feds. Because even though the specific wording is different between that NY letter and the feds the message is the same. It follows that mythical means non-extant. And it follows "a recreational activity" also means non-extant. That means neither state nor fed will move to put the creature on the ESL. Saying mythical and recreational activity are the disclaimers the public gets. You don't need such a document for a federal suit. Only one that zeros in on how the gov determined it's public policy statement:

 

1 hour ago, Huntster said:

1) No evidence of anything from the department

2) Negligence in the investigation of evidence provided by the public on lands within the departments purview

3) The need to conduct a simple survey in the region of the nation and on federal lands where evidence collected by the public indicates the highest density of the reported creatures

 

In other words, just how did the feds arrive at the conclusion that hunting Bigfoot IS a recreational activity? What studies or investigations were conducted that resulted in that outcome? So a federal lawsuit would be an easy case to present. But it can't start out as being about Bigfoot !! It needs to start off with the ETHICS of calling hunting Bigfoot a recreational activity which allows revenue from the Bigfoot biz to flow in. The ethics of doing that without a publicly-known, regionally wide-ranging, FEDERAL scientific investigation and study. It would be an easy case to start off with, but starting off with the existence issue would be a serious error. It is also NOT a personal injury or hardship a case. That concept, suing for damages, is where Standing and the late Claudia Ackerly seriously erred in their depositions.

 

BUT, who is going to bring such a suit to federal court?

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by hiflier

[Huntster]

12 minutes ago, hiflier said:

I think most of us know those points you listed in your post. The points in and of themselves do not move the needle. Yeah, they look good in a post but that's as far as anything effective goes. It's a paper tiger..........

 

Correct. A suit to force government to survey might work, and the failure to sue guarantees that the needle doesn't move. And that works for me. I am in agreement with what I believe is the government position:

 

The best way to preserve them and their lifestyle is for the public not to know of their existence.

 

Quote

.......But the point you make with "if it was federal", if you remember has already been made by the feds........

 

I remember no official statement by the federal government that wasn't a silly April Fools gag.

 

The reason why an ESA listing is appropriate for sasquatches is because their most dense population appears to exist on both sides of the US/Canadian border, thus making this an international issue.

 

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........That means neither state nor fed will move to put the creature on the ESL........

 

Their refusal is based on opinion, not any kind of biological survey whatsoever. It is not a scientific position.

 

Quote

.......You don't need such a document for a federal suit........

 

Such a document from the feds proves their refusal to survey. They must refuse to act in order to grieve their refusal to act.

 

Quote

.........In other words, just how did the feds arrive at the conclusion that hunting Bigfoot IS a recreational activity?.......

 

In the same way they learned that issuing April Fools statements is recreational activity.......on the taxpayers dime.

 

Quote

.......What studies or investigations were conducted that resulted in that outcome?........

 

That is just one of the numerous questions they need to answer under oath.

 

Quote

........So a federal lawsuit would be an easy case to present. But it can't start out as being about Bigfoot !! It needs to start off with the ETHICS of calling hunting Bigfoot a recreational activity which allows revenue from the Bigfoot biz to flow in.......

 

Works for me. The key is getting them under oath regarding sasquatchery in any form, and let the questioning lead where it will. IMHO, they're already convicted by their very silence over the past half century. They've been essentially pleading the Fifth since October of 1967.

 

Quote

.......The ethics of doing that without a publicly-known, regionally wide-ranging, FEDERAL scientific investigation and study. It would be an easy case to start off with, but starting off with the existence issue would be a serious error. It is also NOT a personal injury or hardship a case. That concept, suing for damages, is where Standing and the late Claudia Ackerly seriously erred in their depositions........

 

Correct. The wrong is the complete lack of study and consideration as the precise agency responsible, and the remedy is to study the evidence.

 

Quote

........BUT, who is going to bring such a suit to federal court?

 

Nobody. Sasquatch enthusiasts have as much unity and conviction as the current House of Representatives. And that is precisely what government counts on.

 

 

[georgerm]

1 hour ago, norseman said:

Unfortunately that is all considered mythical. Along with other Indian legends such as the Thunderbird, Ogopogo and the Wendigo….

 

Until a bloody corpse is presented to science or possibly very robust DNA evidence? Nothing will ever change.

The deceased bigfoot would need to be delivered to Washington DC.  by airplane on ice or it will remain mythical. This only happens in a perfect world, and it will probably vanish in transport. Since 1980 when a bigfoot snuck up on our campsite, and I plainly spotted it about 50' away the creature has been an ongoing study subject. Since then, I have been doing a private study of the evidence on the bigfoot research organization.com and bigfoot forum.com.

 

When during the Summer of 1964, I worked in a lumber yard and then later as a logger called a 'choker setter' behind a D-6 "CAT" on steep ground. When I was a landscape architect for the Rogue River National Forest there was plenty of forested land left after using the 'sustained yield' method of harvesting trees. It takes 40 years for Douglas Fir (cut into very strong lumber) to grow back to full sized trees so 1/40th of the land is logged each year. 

 

It must be proven that our timber forest will remain healthy and dense for years to come if bigfoot is proven to be an endangered species. In my opinion present timber tree harvesting levels will not be diminished if Bigfoot is shown to be and endangered species. 

Bigfoot will not have a negative impact on the logging companies and home building in Oregon and a few other states. In 40 years, the areas of cut timber will have grown back to a markable size to 40' to 80' tall. Vast expanses of timber remain even after 1/40th or two percent of the trees are cut each year .

 

My estimation is a bigfoot family in Oregon needs 100 square miles before they encroach on another clan's claim. My opinion is bigfoots can adapt and move if one habitat is burned or the timber is harvested. It's the job of the Department of Interior's biologist to conduct studies and field work to verify this.                                     

 

 

[georgerm]

2 hours ago, hiflier said:

 

How come there are no follow up comments or questions on that letter? As far as I know the requester didn't issue any follow up questions to Mr. Batcheller, Chief wildlife biologist?

Way to go Hiflier for leading the way.

 

Let's do more than discuss bigfoot and move to action.

 

Can we make up a letter dealing with bigfoot facts, we all sign, and send it off?