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As part of my volunteer work for the Montana Military Museum over the last decade, I spend a lot of time looking at and restoring historical photographs, some dating back to the 1880's. In April I began experimenting with a colorization program called DeOldify licensed by MyHeritage. It can bring the subject of an old photo to life, in a manner of speaking. I've used it on a number of the museum's photos of Montana infantry units taken from the 1890's through the 1930's. We know the actual colors of uniforms, pennants and flags, etc., shown in the photos and the program does a remarkable job of rendering them accurately. I was primarily interested in the photo of Khwit as it is the best preserved as well as generationally closest to Zana. My goal was to adjust exposure to try and give more depth to the face, allowing a possibly more accurate assessment of the underlying bone structure (I also found it interesting that the hair was rendered in the auburn shade fitting the "long, reddish-brown hair" described in "The Nature of the Beast" quoted above). Based on the neutral background I suspect the photo was exposed with artificial light, i.e. flash powder in that era, which would explain the high contrast exhibited. Khwit's nose appears wide considering the otherwise long, narrow face, and while the original photo suggests a high forehead, reflection of light to the camera lens is similar from the bridge of the nose and the forehead above the brow which indicates a similar sloping plane to both surfaces. As hiflier pointed out, the ears definitely seem low and it's easy to see that if that thick hair was allowed to grow out it could cover them entirely which fits with the many sasquatch witness descriptions that ears were not seen. If I saw that photo with no knowledge of the provenance it would appear to be or a fairly well proportioned, rangy human male. If his body was proportioned with the skull pictured above however, he must have been extraordinarilly tall and powerfully built. The heading over the photos doesn't provide the identity of the "leading genetecist" who suggests Zana may have been a yeti, but all of the purported yeti tracks I'm aware of show an ape like foot rather than human like. While I understand the genetic basis for the current primate designations (and ignoring the persistent suspicion that some scientists delight in obfuscation), the lexicon of Ivan Sanderson's day dividing the branches as Hominid or Pongid strikes me as much more descriptive from the standpoint of physical characteristics.

Found another scratched up tree (5.17.20). All in all, it was a nice drive above the Charmed Lake, our main research site.

OMG, I effing hate autocorrect. Gigantism. Big ass creatures. Fixed it. 😂 Thank you for making me laugh @hiflier and @BlackRockBigfoot ❤

When I look at the BFRO reports in the Washington county in which my research area was located (this morning), I see only two reports after my two submitted BFRO reports 10 years ago. The data base has one in 2003 and one in 2018. Neither of my reports are in the published data base. My first was a footprint find and the second was the encounter I have related on the forum. When I made the BFRO reports, I assumed that the BFRO actually had a data base and I wanted to contribute to that. If my reports were discarded or not investigated then it is likely many others have had the same fate. Because of lack of investigation on the part of the BFRO for my first two reports, I never made another. Excuses are usually that there is a backlog or no investigators in this area. 10 years is a hell of a backlog. If there are no investigators, anoint some. Then again since membership seems to be bought by attending expeditions, maybe there is no one in the county that has paid enough. Because of that I would not base any estimate of BF population or activity on BFRO data.

I don't think it is possible to deduce anything based on report numbers. There are simply too many moving parts. Social media has fostered the formation of MANY small, local groups and individuals so you don't have to go to the big names that publish reports anymore to talk to someone and you don't have to face the interrogation that was characteristic of BFRO when I made my report. It is more socially acceptable now, too, to talk about bigfoot so there are likely fewer people who report just to have a sanity check. Moreover ... go to BFRO's site and look at the recently published reports list, look at the dates. Now, think about that chart previously shown. It simply takes some amount of time for reports to be investigated and published, so the recent gap may show nothing about reports, only about investigation and publication. We have to wait 10 years to see what has been published about now to know about the number of reports now. May not be what you want to hear, but it is truth. Deal with truth or deal with wishful thinking. It's up to you. MIB

I thought I would add a couple of photos as well. One of the many beautiful creeks. The swamp. Cliff from Finding Bigfoot What we first thought was a figure, but was likely just a stumpsquatch. Very distant...but it was still there some 15 to 20 minutes later. Zoom in, silhouetted on the ridge near the center.

Speaking about DNA found this in an ad. The Bering land bridge is starting to get problematic to explain. Dusty is a NA man from the Blackfoot Tribe in Montana. He is 85% NA. "DUSTY’S DNA DISCOVERY So Dusty took a CRI Ancestry Test at the urging of his late brother Willy, who passed away before Dusty could receive his results. That’s a shame, because Dusty discovered something that would have shocked his late brother. With his CRI Genetics DNA test, Dusty was able to trace his ancestry back a whopping 17,000 years. More surprising than that, he found that his North American ancestry was OLDER than the land bridge that once connected Siberia to Alaska—and that he’d been told in school was the place his ancestors came from. Instead, Crawford’s results suggest that his ancestors came not by bridge, but by boat—as his closest genetic ancestors come from the Pacific Islands, not Siberia. The current theory is that Crawford’s ancestors—some of the first people to set foot in the Americas—came by boat to South America. They would have then worked their way North over many generations of travel. In fact, remains found in Peru contain DNA from the same haplogroup as Dusty Crawford—meaning that he can trace his lineage DIRECTLY back down to Peru—and back across the Pacific Ocean."

May 17, 2020 - While out scouting some forest roads, I had a bear run across the road about 5 car lengths ahead of me. I tried getting a video, but wasn't successful, you cant see much. It was pretty cool, though! This is the hill it ran up. I was driving slowly because this was the drop off on the other side. On May 14th, I got to go target shooting with some friends. That was fun!

Brief synopsis: I show that the film subject's upper leg length / height ratio is wildly outside the range of human proportions. This ratio is uniquely impossible to alter using prosthetics due to the upper leg being located between joints. Hence the ratio must be intrinsic to the film subject and the film subject cannot be a human in a suit. Full paper in the attached PDF. Unalterable Body Segment Dimensions in the Patterson-Gimlin Film.pdf

What I find interesting and may have bearing on the question of BF is that both horses and camels originated on North America and migrated to Eurasia. There was a huge camel whose fossils have been found very near the artic circle in Canada that apparently was very adapted to the cold arctic. The last native NA horse disappeared from the fossil record only 8000 to 10,000 years ago only to be reintroduced back into NA in the 1600s by the Spanish. Could it be that BF had unknown origins in the Americas? There are certainly monkeys in South America who came from someplace and that could have evolved. It just seems to me that the origin and ancestral record of BF is so hard to imagine that it might be even stranger than we have imagined.

I finally broke down and got myself my first ESEE. I have not had it out in the field yet, but I LOVE the way it feels in my hand, and the sheath can be configured for a lefty like me. I really love the handle scales, they feel just right, and textured to make them grippy. Hope to take it out this coming weekend if all goes well.

We're dealing with a linear ratio, so even if the subject was actually shorter than 87", the ratio I obtained would be the same regardless of height. For instance, if the height of the subject was actually only 80% of the height estimate I used, the upper leg length would likewise be decreased to 80% of the value I used, and the ratio of the two values would remain the same. Basically, we've multiplied the numerator and denominator by the same constant, which cancels and doesn't affect the value of the ratio. (For the record, I disagree with the "short Patty" height estimates, but that's outside the scope of my paper.) Regarding the arm length (and ratios including the arm length): While the arm length of the subject is outside the range of human proportions, the total arm length can be altered by a prosthetic worn over the hand. Whether that can be done convincingly is another question that's been debated ad nauseum. The motivation for zeroing in on the upper leg length is specifically because it allowed me to dispense with that can of worms entirely--no prosthetic can make your upper leg longer. You can't make that claim about any other limb segment, except for the upper arm, for which I couldn't find suitable corresponding human data. Hence the "unlike previously considered proportions" line in my conclusion.

Pot. I don't think there is equal evidence for all of those things you mentioned nor is the sheer volume of accounts equal among those subjects. However if you are going to bring up gnomes and pixies (fairies) then yes there is a ton of that kind of phenomenon and I think there is something to it. I like to read old folk tails from that part of the world. The accounts from another age and a different culture are often astoundingly similar to what we experience over on this continent in nature and description. If anything reading those kinds of accounts from the past and comparing them to today's paranormal phenomenon only further confirms for me the reality of the phenomenon rather than suggesting its non existence. But you are really failing to understand or respond to my point for bringing up different forms for a phenomenon I am suggesting could all be related and really the same thing. If Jung is correct, and I think he is to some extent for sure, it does not matter if it is a fairy, a bigfoot, an orb or a UFO. They would all be manifestations of the one numinous force drawing from the collective unconscious of humanity. From this perspective you make the mistake of thinking of these phenomenon as separate rather than related or even the same. It is really humorous though to have you try to mock this idea when this is exactly the kind of mocking the close minded and ignorant use on people who think bigfoot is real..... Pot meet kettle......

I downvoted you as a joke.

Reading the last dozen or more posts of lively discussion, one point I think deserves to be brought out. Simply put, all evidence is not equal. Evidence has a hierarchy of weight in shaping a conclusion, and any proper analysis needs to factor in those weights. The stronger (or weightier) the primary evidence is, the less peripheral issues and evidence impact on a conclusion. If empirical evidence is sufficient, anecdotal evidence ceases to have enough weight to be factored into a conclusion. Backdoc's notes about "Direct issues" and "Indirect issues" is (in essence) a similar way of giving weight to the empirical evidence. Most sightings are sorely lacking in solid empirical evidence. The PGF stands out as uniquely situated with a wealth of empirical evidence to work with. The empirical evidence is simply so powerful, so weighty, that the anecdotal evidence can be dismissed as irrelevant. But there are really two separate issues which interested people want to explore. One if the factual conclusion about the authenticity of the film and its subject, and another is to know the full human story of how that film came to exist. And it is in the second matter that the anecdotal evidence is worth researching or seeking out. Example, Al DeAtley wasn't holding the camera, so he is irrelevant to the authenticity of the PGF. But he was a powerful element of the human story, and so research into him is of merit in that respect. Whereas the issue of the film's authenticity is overwhelmingly supported by the empirical evidence, the human story is still clouded and (as human stories inevitably are) is messy and erratic. Some people are honest. Some are not. Some people are predictably rational and methodical. Others may be impulsive and spontaneously erratic. Some people are singularly focused on an action and event, while others let personal matters intrude and cloud decisions. Some people hold truth as a goal to preserve. Others prefer situational ethics and self-serving rationalizations to bend the truth to their needs. The larger PGF story abounds with these human frailties and foibles. And there is merit in exploring these issues, with faint hope we might one day know the true story of what really happened to bring this film into existence. But the bottom line is that however the human story resolves (if indeed it ever does resolve to some truthful narrative), one fact remains constant. The film was the result of an unplanned and spontaneous filming of a real encounter with an entity as yet unrecognized by the biological sciences.

I think that the digging into the details of this film production has gone well below the water table, and people are drowning in the excavation. Radical skeptics remind me of desperate lawyers representing clients who are obviously guilty and have no alibi. This film has exposed every psychological side of mankind I can imagine. The film itself and its story has become the phenomenon. The creature in the film is just the facilitation of the main event. Bill Munns took the best approach to all of this by examining the film itself to the maximum extent possible, and I consider his results golden. There are questions which will always remain, so one must decide whether or not the subject is a sasquatch or a man in a suit. I long ago decided that it was a sasquatch, and Bill (among several others) strengthened that decision. More debate on the production is just another Bonanza episode of cowboy/lawyer drama, or Matlock/Columbo/Perry Mason lawyer mystery. Those murder/lawyer shows are more bland than situation comedies.

I'd agree with that. A detailed analysis of the dates of filing vs date of event would be telling. There may be no change in actual contacts, only a change in knowledge of how and where to report brought about by TV shows and social media. A constant stream of "encounters" might show up on a graph of activity over time as low prior to knowledge of where to report, a substantial spike or bulge in the graph as the backlog of old events that were not previously reported got reported, then a reduction to some roughly steady value, though higher than the original was, as a greater percentage of that same steady "event rate" gets reported over time because people know where / how to report. In a way, with a real species, that's what you should expect .. the report numbers changing should reflect changes in our behavior, not necessarily changes in the bigfoots' behaviors. We've said "search for bigfoot, find yourself" .. this may just be another aspect of the mirror. MIB

A recent Shane Corson interview which clarifies some stuff about the old nests and tells about new nest finds, and a "something happened" when found.

Yea there was a lot of high strangeness going on the other night...some I'm just not even comfortable mentioning to close friends I've made who are familiar with the subject of Bigfoot..it seems supernatural occurrences pick up when the Bigfoot activity is more frequent than normal ... My channel has had a surge in subscribers but I never ask for likes or subscribers, refuse any ads on my channel and have refused any donations and go fund me fundraiser requests.. Some of the cameras and equipment I was blessed with on the beginning from a member here, I've paid most that equipment forward to others in my area needing assistance..just wanted to throw that out there cause I try to keep it about sharing information and no monitary gain..

There's a difference between belief / unbelief and debunking hoaxes. Do not think for one instant that my belief, and <knowledge>, of bigfoot automatically means I have to accept the lies as truth just to support existence. This is science. What you promote looks like religion and group-think. If you think I don't spend time in the field, you have a lot to learn. MIB

They are not listed with an open season, and so you may not hunt them. If you do, you have taken that animal out of season, which is a violation, and possibly a felony. Obviously so.

I was picturing a Bigfoot with a .44 Smith and Wesson sayin “Go ahead punk.....make my day!”

https://bigfootforums.com/topic/9985-erickson-photo-of-a-squatch-behind-a-stump/

Actually, before I asked I ran a search of the forum using the word "discovery" within thread titles only. There weren't many appropriate threads, and only a couple of short ones even addressed my questions. I don't want to derail this thread with further advances into this subject, but my mind is turning towards either resurrecting one of those earlier threads or starting a new one. Your answers deserve wide, regular, and recurring thought and discussion. However, in short, the preservation of large parcels of public lands for a non-political hominin by a government made up of homo sapiens in the current political environment brings up so many potential political problems that the understanding of why government wants these creatures to remain undiscovered becomes more than obvious.

Northwind, whatever you get I suggest that you do not relay on the camera to camouflage itself. Figure out some sort of natural covering material, mount it high, and hope it is not noticed by both humans, who likely would steal it, or BF to avoid. I an not at all sure that it is the IR that gives away the game camera in daylight operations. It could just be the strange box strapped to a tree that does not belong there. But the IR flash likely is the giveaway during the dark hours. Bigtreewalker has a photo sequence that shows what I think is a BF noticing a game camera during the daylight. He has not posted it because the BF is so far away that you cannot be sure what it is. But its behavior does not look human. Once it sees the camera it goes into the classic get behind trees and peek at the camera routine. A human would not have done that but would have marched right up to the camera and messed with it. But the fact that the BF saw the camera from that far away, demonstrates to me that they are wary of anything out of place in the woods. With all the game cameras deployed, something must be giving them away to BF who avoids them Most are not camouflaged, which is probably the biggest factor. As I have mentioned before, my back yard is wooded. If someone hung a game camera there, I would notice it immediately just because of it being out of place.

Vigilantism? Like Charles Bronson in Death Wish?

LOL, well, even I need some fun sometimes. I looked over NW's link and I think he's picking up a good tool for the BF trade.

Shouldn't any "mind messaging" go into the paranormal section?

And for the same reason a chicken uses to cross a road. Why do mountain goats leave their habitat to frolick in towns? For the same reason chickens cross roads.......... https://www.matsugov.us/news/mountain-goat-takes-a-rest-downtown-palme (I added the video so that those who suspect that it was Bob in a goat suit could analyze it properly for the next half century.........)

Took a trip to Liberty dam in Maryland. No Bigfoot around there, but it's a nice view.

@trapper I think you are assuming that Humans will never themselves progress to a cognitive level that would allow for more understanding of the workings of things like our Universe. I mean, I can somewhat agree with your statement regarding "limitations of our present scientific level of advancement and its possible permanence". Somewhat. And what I'm going to say needs to be couched in more or less evolution: Genes mutate. It's what they do. It was gene mutation that separated hominids from Chimpanzees by creating copies of the NOTCH2NL gene which gave hominids increasing brain size and cognitive powers. It is those very genes that have gotten us scientifically to where we are today, which I think is fairly significant considering what we have accomplished technologically. But that isn't the whole story. Again, gees mutate, which means Nature isn't finished with us yet. Sometimes genes mutate through environmental forcing and I think science is part of that forcing dynamic. So. We're not done. This isn't the end of the line for Human brain power. Because the NOTCH2NL brain gene variations that we have may go on to create a situation where we create progenitor cells faster and in more abundance that we do now during fetal development. The ability to create more progenitor cells is what allowed Humans, in turn, to create more neurons. This increased progenitor cell process that Humans have is how we left the Great Apes way behind in the area of bigger brains and higher cognitive thinking. Having said that, I see no reason for Humans to not get even higher up the ladder in those things where we develop a deeper understanding of the natural world's physics and beyond. Humans have produced geniuses: Archimedes, Galileo, Newton, Einstein, Tesla, Nash, and many others. It may happen that geniuses become the norm. I think we have many more now but most of them get chewed up in the machine and never get an opportunity to reach their potential. Who is to say how far we'll go (or not go) as a species.

I think either science has missed the BF line of ancestors altogether or Gigantopithecus was misidentified at the onset. That very thing has happened very often, and gets more likely when all we have that defines that species is jaw and teeth fragments. Whatever their lineage, BF has a line of ancestors likely going back to someplace in common with man since both are presently bipedal. Speaking of that I had a thought this morning that made me laugh. . It would seem that modern humans have devolved. We went from a farming agrarian society with supermarkets shelves filled with plenty in a matter of two months to a hunter gatherer society searching our environment for simple things like meat, flour, sugar, and paper to wipe our ass. That sure was quick.

Actually, a werewolf might be a sasquatch colored with uneducated theories to explain the phenomenon. A mermaid might be a sea creature colored by the stories of even less educated, rough, tough, sex-starved, 18th Century sailors. Vampires? It's a matter of history that Vlad Dracula was much more bloodthirsty, murderous, and efficient than any story the completely uneducated people of the region and era could ever describe or Hollywood can even depict. Imagine a forest of 20,000 impaled humans rotting in the sun and feeding the birds. It was so utterly horrifying, it accomplished the desired effect; the Ottomans turned around and went home. A monstrous legend, created by reality, survived and evolved for centuries. Paranormal? Nope. Evolving stories/theories to describe an incredible reality? You bet......

How do those form castable tracks? .. minus that, there are times I'd like to agree with you, even about my own experiences ... just make it all go away. But those damned tracks ... plaster doesn't have an imagination for the tracks to be a figment of, y' know? So unless you know something I don't know about our subconscious' ability to make tracks, I think there has to be a physical entity involved. MIB

Methinks you'll enjoy the Tar Pit!

I HIGHLY recommend it.

I went with hominid. It is not necessarily the right answer but it is most consistent with the body of evidence currently available. MIB

LOL! Of course I would. You wouldn't even be held to a NDA. But if you talked, everybody would think you're nuts. I've been demolishing my master bathroom, lining up contractors, and buying materials. When I told my wife that I was going bear hunting, an argument ensued, and immediately after that she took a shower........which leaked into the garage downstairs. She hexed me. Witchcraft. I kid you not. I'm used to this. No, don't try the skeptic thing on me.........

So naturally I had to pit my obviously superior web searching skills against yours Hiflier. And of course I failed. You are correct. If there is information out there, it is not easy to find. To say the least. Here’s a suggestion though. I remember discussing this with you on the old thread on this topic and about the documentary of the recent Himalayan expedition to look for Yeti evidence. That was the first mention I had ever seen concerning eDNA, and it might have been for you too maybe? If you can locate that video, find out the identity of the female French researcher who brought that technology to the expedition. Find her, and where she is employed and you will have a substantial leg up. If you do, I know we can count on you to update us, and I look forward to hearing. Here’s a link: https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/factual/lost-kingdom-of-the-yeti-animal-planet/5130150.article

There is no possible way that a legit DNA lab CANNOT tell the difference between Human dna, Gorilla dna, Chimpanzee dna or a novel undiscovered species of upright walking primate dna. NONE. They can tell the difference between Humans, Neanderthals and Denisovan dna and then identify modern populations that still have a percentage of Neanderthal and Denisovan dna still in them. They can identity traits both good and bad that came from archaic cousins. Neanderthals-Autism, Diabetes, etc Denisovans-High altitude compatibility, etc They can tell the difference between Chimps and Bonobos, Siberian and Bengal Tigers, on and on. This is a stick a fork in it issue! Done! As far as the main topic? If you do not believe anything is out there? You don’t go look. And you certainly do not spend money on lab samples! This is why it’s a mute topic. Todd Disotell on the million dollar Bigfoot bounty? Does a great job showing people how to collect samples. Including catching mosquitoes to study the blood in their stomachs....very Jurrasic parkesque! E dna I’m sure is an up and coming game changer as well. The key to finding a low density, elusive population is to crunch the samples hardcore. Casting a wide net over promising habitat. Does Bigfoot get bitten by mosquitoes? Absolutely. So what are the odds that you can catch the mosquito that’s flying around with Bigfoot blood in its stomach? Really low. But you up the odds by dozens of researchers taking thousands of samples. At some point the winning lotto numbers are gonna pop up. Just takes cash. Or a lab willing to take the samples. Or start a undercover non profit for Lynx or Wolverines, an endangered animal that resides in the same habitat. With a back door agreement that any primate related dna gets a closer look too besides the target species of the study. Or just do what I do and pack a Bigfoot bashing capable caliber firearm every time you step off into the woods. Convince hundreds of buddies to do it? No lab fees. Just sweat, blood and fuel. I guess this is my problem with dna? I don’t know enough about it and I don’t know who to trust. Ketchum didn’t give me any warm feelings either. It’s beyond my control. You could be the best sample taker in the world and the lab could be screwing it up. And the worst part is you wouldn’t even know it. Especially E DNA. If I watch a Bigfoot take a poo in the woods? And I collect a sample? I would be suspicious if it came back as nothing or another animal. But just going around collecting dirt samples? How am I to know they are getting it wrong? In a shooter scenario? The shooter would control the “sample” from beginning to end. And it would be incontrovertible. Minus any black helicopters....

I haven’t given a downvote in this thread but if we are going to get upvotes for giving downvoted I can start!

Hiflier, I'm convinced you're on to something with the e-DNA. The problem with people like us that go out in the field is we have no idea how to extract evidence, where to send it, and what it will cost. The latter two are critical. If it costs $3,000, I'm not about to send anything out unless I am unfailingly convinced I've got the goods. My concern is that we'd get the classic "contaminated" letter in the mail and now we're out a fair amount of money. The way I look at it, for my purposes alone, the $3,000 (just an example) would be better spent getting better equipment. I've got a good thermal imager. Maybe I can spend the $3,000 on a drone and add a killer camera setup. If the e-DNA could be done at a relatively inexpensive price and done so anonymously, so I don't find men in black standing at my door one day, I'd be all over it. I applaud the work you're doing on this because this path will be the best hope we have. I just don't want to burn through cash in the process because the only person I'm proving things to is me. I don't want sasquatch to be proven to the outside world.

I have set it aside to pursue more productive endeavors. There is an error that I have not been able to work out. I think something needs to be adjusted in the TC1, TC2, TC4 triangle, and it takes days to work this kind of stuff out doing trial and error. I think the 12 foot distance is the most reliable measurement, but it also depends on how high up the tree they measured. Since there is tree lean, measuring at the base vs waist high might be 6" difference, and that difference gets multiplied if you use it as the reference, as you start to place the far trees. It's an exercise in frustration...

I actually think your Indirect Issues are more important and certainly more interesting than your direct issues. The film is what it is. I don't think I'll ever get anything more out of watching the film again. The camera details, the creature's size, the path...these aren't important to me. You could argue the creature's size is important if you have someone claiming they were the creature and you could compare the size of both subjects but other than that the creature doesn't look any smaller or bigger than the average size man to me. The creature certainly doesn't look 7 feet tall to me. I'm not sure there is much more to learn about the actual film footage. I think we'll only learn something new if people come forward to address your indirect issues. Of course any new news would have to be questioned and analyzed but I find that stuff, the human drama, if you will, to be more interesting after having viewed the film footage a few hundred times.

Hello. Im new to the forum and am just a casual interested layperson on the topic of Bigfoot. I have two freinds who have had direct sightings of bigfoot and have known both of them for long enough and well enough to really trust them and what they saw. Over the years I have become convinced that Bigfoot do exist. I am not really on the fence about that anymore due to hearing too many credible accounts of people having interactions with them. I wanted to share something that happened to me twice years ago in the Wasatch Mountains in Utah and hear any perspectives on the chances it was a bigfoot encounter. I'm not looking for definite answers as obviously these cannot be given for my experience but any insight and/or knowledge about activity in this area would be appreciated. I used to live in a pretty rundown neighborhood and there were a few boys whose parents were not doing basically any supervision at all with them. No curfew or bedtime, they could run around all day and night and even didn't go to school often and these boys were only 9 or 10 years old. Anyway I took these boys under my wing and we are all freinds to this day. My wife and I used to take them camping and hiking all the time. I used to love going hiking at night (I know now that is not very smart) and so one night I went hiking around 10 at night with a friend of mine. We were at the top of Big Cottonwood canyon and the hike started at a lake called silver lake right off the main road. It was around 10 or 11 at night and we hiked up from that lake to another smaller lake about a mile and a half up into the mountains from there. That whole area is a famous ski resort area and there are even houses at the base where the hike began. There is no camping allowed up these trails and no road that goes to the lake we hiked up too. When we got to the top we sat at the side of the lake, its more like a very big pond actually. Anyway while sitting there enjoying the evening and solitude we heard the sound of a large boulder being thrown into the water and this spooked us because there are no cliffs or steep hills a boulder might be thrown from. It was dark but there was moonlight and we could not see anyone standing near the lake all around. It was not a fish jumping and it was not a beaver slapping its tail. The sound had that bass to it from something big being thrown. I yelled out that I had a gun and then we decided to leave because it was weird that someone was messing with us so late at night out in the woods. I did not think much of that after leaving. About a month later I decided to take three of those boys with me on the same hike again around 10 or 11 at night. We got to the lake and were sitting by the waters edge and the same thing happened. A boulder was thrown into the water judging by the sound of it and this time I was more spooked because it just seemed so strange for it to happen again to me a month apart from the other experience. Another one was thrown and I yelled out that I had a gun and something about not messing with us. I decided we better leave and so we started hiking out of there. This time though something followed us out off trail and behind us a ways. It was breaking sticks and branches loudly. The kids were terrified and one of them "Little Chris" was shaking so badly he could barely walk. Whatever it was was getting closer as we walked down the trail. It finally got close enough that I thought we were in real trouble. This part lasted about 5 minutes with the breaking of the branches and the following and getting closer. I had made sure to be behind the boys and so put myself in danger. At this point I picked up a softball sized rock and prepared to face whatever this thing was. I really thought "it" was about to happen and prepared for the worst. I started yelling loudly to try and intimidate whatever it was and waited for it to happen. I was very scared and kicking myself terribly for taking these boys out into the woods so recklessly. But nothing beyond that happened and the breaking sounds stopped happening too and we made the hike all the way back to the car without incident. Back then I did not have internet and so it was puzzling and scary and we never could figure out what that whole situation was but a few years later when I got on the net I happened across a Bigfoot forum or blog or something and danged if what happened to us did sound like a typical Bigfoot situation. Anyway any thoughts on this would be appreciated and especially any thoughts on if they are thought to exists in the Wasatch Mountain range in Utah or not would be welcomed. Thanks.

More hiking and pics to share:) Bigfoot's pool - nice deep pool all hidden away A Coral Snake Nice BF print with toes And the last 3 - more Sotol leaves as found discarded on the trails

Thanks for sharing your experiences, Trapper. There is a poster on another forum that I belong to that has mentioned his encounter in Utah several times over the past few years. While I do not know him personally, he does not seem to be interested in Bigfoot or the paranormal outside of his one encounter. His story has stayed consistent and never wavered for close to 15 years. His encounter took place near Midway, Utah...which I believe was is located in the Wasatch Mountain Range. I will cut and paste one of his posts detailing his encounter below. I have had several PMs asking me to give some additional details about our encounter so I'll post them here. I've posted them before but the get buried in the old posts. my wife, who was my fiance at the time, and I were driving around midway Utah (above Heber) late at night on a Friday looking for a cabin we had been invited to to spend the night with some friends. We got SUPER lost and were just driving around in the woods. I got kinda tired of driving around aimlessly and just decided to get out of there as fast as we could. I wend down a gully, came up the other side about 60 miles an hour and hit a sharp corner I didn't see coming, I slammed on the brakes and slid around the corner in the gravel, as soon as I cleared the corner, there was something HUGE standing in the middle of the road. I slammed on my brakes and slid to a stop. Standing right in front of us, in high beams, was the biggest humanoid I've ever seen. he had dropped into a crouch and half twisted to see us when we came flying around the corner. we'd clearly caught him off guard crossing the road. He was facing right to left and was sideways to us, slightly twisted back to face us. He was maybe 8-9 feet from my face in the high beams. I could clearly see his eyes, teeth, skin and hair. we locked gaze for a few seconds, and in those few seconds I can still remember the details I processed like it was yesterday. Long brown hair, fairly thick overall but very thin on and around the face. not a human face but not ape. the closest thing I can think of is the pictures of Neaderthal's in the National geographic. It looked a LOT more like us (humans) than an ape but the brow was heavy, very heavy jawline, flattened nose, high cheekbones, deep set eyes. The eyes were dark but hard to see the color because they were squinting in the light. the thing was frozen for a few seconds and then it slowly uncrouched just a little bit then took off across the road, three long bounds and then it leapt over this hedge of brush and scrub oak that was maybe seven feet high. It went over arms first, superman style, and never touched the bushes. the important parts of the encounter are: - this thing was 7 feet plus high. I would guess 7'2"-7'3". I can guarantee it's size within a couple of inches because at the time I was an offensive tackle at brigham young university. My best friend was (is) 6'8" and about 435. This thing was MUCH taller than Will. - it was physically enormous. The largest animal I've ever seen that wasn't a moose. it's biceps were literally the size of my thighs. At the time I was 6'5" and about 320. I have big thighs. It's biceps were that size. It's thighs were the size of my waist. I was about a 44" waist. - I have never seen anything move so fast in my life. After BYU, I went to the buffalo bills where I was the second team O tackle and I blocked Bruce Smith on a daily basis for the better part of a year. Bruce is the quickest human I have ever seen. It took me two weeks to even touch Bruce, let alone block him. This thing was easily 2x as fast/quick. I would guess this thing was pushing a 3.7 to 3.9 40 yard dash speed, maybe faster. It was hard to tell because it was so huge. It was so big it might have looked slower than it was moving. It covered an entire road and over some bushes in three steps. - I would guess it weighed 700+ lbs. It was simply massive. Still hard to believe even having seen it in very bright lights. as it ran off, I was terrified. There is something primal about looking at something so close to you that could *CLEARLY* destroy you in a thought. We were in a mazda 626, with an open sunroof, late at night, with a craptacular tanfoglio CZ75 9mm under the seat for protection. This thing could have ripped the roof off, and yanked us out and eaten us if it wanted to. I could not even talk. I was speechless. I finally decided I had hallucinated the entire episode and finally stammered out "did you see that?!" my wife, who had not breathed an iota in the brief time since we'd seen it could only reply "That was a BIGFOOT! Get us the he** out of here!" There was no thought of shooting it, it was too fast, too intelligent and frankly too scary. I floored the accelerator and didn't let up for a mile and a half until I almost wrapped around a tree on another blind corner. I still almost don't believe it sometimes, i have to check with the wife. I don't care if you or anyone else believes it. It simply doesn't matter to me. I can tell you that we were two newly wed, innocent mormon kids who have never had a drink, don't take drugs, and take honesty very seriously out for a drive and we saw a bigfoot. I have my theory as to who it was, and if I'm right, there IS only one of them. that would explain why there have never been bones. But I know what we saw that night, and it was a 7 foot plus, thousand pound animal who moved with the speed of an olympic runner, had a 45+ inch vert jump, a sub 4 second 40 time and moved like a ghost. I never heard a sound through the open window or sunroof over the ticking engine save the sound of the brush as he cleared it and a thump as he hit the ground on the other side. You may not believe in bigfoot, but there is at least one of them. Or there was in Midway Utah in the late summer of 1992. I am not sure why I tell people, as invariably people think you are insane, as I would if someone told me the same story, but it is the truth and I (an my wife) have incontrovertible proof for ourselves that there is at least one bigfoot.

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