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Guest

Then again it's pretty difficult to see a Bigfoot if you just spend all your time behind a computer complaining about the BFRO. If your track record is better then nothing is stopping you from competing. It's a free market.

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Guest sandman

Removed quote placed here. Enough is enough sandman.

1) Its not a competition, its silly to think it is

2) The show is TV, its about ratings and money, there's no honest research going on, it's entertainment, nothing more

3) The BFRO is a for money interest, which does nothing to help the credibility

my 2 cents

Edited by Biggie
-Removed needless quote from user immediately above.

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Guest

By competition I was referring to the previous poster's insinuation that people are wasting their money trying to see a Bigfoot at a BFRO expedition. I say that if you think you can provide services of equal or better value than I suggest you do so. I just don't get the constant complaining about it. Step up and show people you know more and can do a better job and stop whining like a child.

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Guest wudewasa

rockiessquatching,

I post within the rules of BFF, don't tell me how to conduct myself, as you are not a moderator.

When I go into the field, I do so for fun and relaxation, not to look for bigfoot. If I would encounter such an animal, it would change my view on American wildlife. The trips that I undertake are planned without the fee based guidance of people, as I have enough knowledge on how to conduct myself in the woods. You don't know a thing about my background.

I have nothing to prove, unlike yourself.

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Guest sandman

Rockie,

Maybe better yet, just get out there and have a look for yourself. There is no reason why you have to spend money to have the BFRO let you do this when you can simply do it for yourself. And it's not a competition since NOone has come up with the magic bullet. Noone has proven the creature exists, and nothing since the PGF in my opinion anyway seems compelling beyond a point.

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Guest Biggie

Sandman read my previous post to you in this very thread in reference to your post #32 that you placed after I replied to you.

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Guest

MMteamplayer.jpg

Hey - Has anyone ever seen Moneymaker & Cartman together @ the SAME TIME???

Hmmmm....

;)

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Guest ajciani

The BFRO expeditions are quite pricey for what they are.

Generally, $300 for guiding in an easily accessed location would cover the guide, the camp, and maybe the food. In the case of the BFRO expeditions, you pay your own way, and pay the BFRO people $300 on top of it. It would be one thing if the BFRO also supplied some equipment, but as I recall, if you want equipment, you bring your own.

So essentially, you pay for everything; your hotel or campsite, your food, your gas, your travel. You bring everything you need; your camping equipment, your cameras, your recording equipment. You pay the BFRO people $300 to tell you their campfire stories, tell you about bigfoots, tell you how to look for bigfoots, and lead you around. After paying for and providing everything, if you get a recording of BF on your equipment, it belongs to the BFRO (the recording, not your equipment). If you know nothing about BF, I guess it is a good deal.

Many of their expeditions are in national forests and parks, or State parks. Some are on private lands, which have had recurrent activity. If you are going to pay $300, then I would suggest taking the expeditions on private lands where there has been recurrent activity. You can pay your own way into a national forest any time, but private property is private property, even if it is leased on a national forest.

If you plan on going on a BFRO expedition, and you have the choice between camping on-site and staying in a motel, I would STRONGLY suggest you stay on-site, during the expedition nights. If you want to have the thrill of keeping quite, because you don't want to scare away the BF as it prods at your tent, or taps on the door of the cabin, then you need to be in the tent or in the cabin. Unless it is dumpster diving, the BF is highly unlikely to come to your motel.

All of this being said. You should probably just get out in the woods near home. My experience has been that these BF are nearly everywhere, and are active day and night. They tend to get closer at night, a lot closer at night, but only just near enough to see you. During the day, they will mostly be out of sight, probably shadowing you or laying low taking a rest. For taking rests, they seem to like the bottoms of cliffs. Shadowing seems to be done behind, and a good 20 feet off the trail.

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Guest

I would think that the money charged is more of a "users fee" to disclose the area of interest where sightings are common and access to that land. As well use of the equipment that they have....night vision..etc...I realize that these devises are very expensive and most people won't spend thousands to get top of the line gear.... Besides I would sleep most of the day and then stay up most of the night. The money wasn't the main issue for not going. Too hard to get off work for those 4 days... If my schedule was more open I would go on one just to experience it.

I prefer to be in the woods alone or with one other person. It isn't just to see a bigfoot. I probably won't ever see one....but I have seen bears, wolves and Lynx, coyotes and MANY deer. I just plain LOVE THE WOODS! When I camp, I am out in a dispersed site in a state forest or on my land. I have nothing against the BFRO. I don't care what they do or what they don't do. I Just check the website every now and then to see if any new WI or MI sightings pop up.

Edited by SAILGIRL

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Guest

The BFRO expeditions are quite pricey for what they are.

Generally, $300 for guiding in an easily accessed location would cover the guide, the camp, and maybe the food.

Not true. I paid $1300 for a 6 day mountaineering course in the Cascades and food was not included. Outside of the expedition fee you only pay for your own food. I have never paid any extra for camping fees.

It would be one thing if the BFRO also supplied some equipment, but as I recall, if you want equipment, you bring your own.

They do. But it's more about learning HOW to use the equipment.

You pay the BFRO people $300 to tell you their campfire stories, tell you about bigfoots, tell you how to look for bigfoots, and lead you around.

You are paying to have very experienced people teach you this trade craft. If you don't believe it's worth it than don't go. For me it was a small investment in learning more about the subject. To each his own. I also met some really great people. In my opinion you cannot put a price on that.

After paying for and providing everything, if you get a recording of BF on your equipment, it belongs to the BFRO (the recording, not your equipment).

Not true.

If you are going to pay $300, then I would suggest taking the expeditions on private lands where there has been recurrent activity.

Public or Private has nothing to do with the chances of an encounter. I would suggest that a public area is actually a better choice as Sasquatches are known to prowl around campsites looking for scraps.

My experience has been that these BF are nearly everywhere, and are active day and night.

There is a higher probability that they will be located in "certain" areas rather than others. This is what you will learn at an expedition.

If anyone wants more details please PM me. These threads always turn into a BFRO bashing party which does nothing to help interested people make an informed decision about whether to attend.

Edited by rockiessquatching

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Guest
Not true. I paid $1300 for a 6 day mountaineering course in the Cascades and food was not included.
IMO, there are a couple of differences. The first is that BFRO expeditions are $300-$500 for one weekend. Technically you get there Thursday night and leave Sunday morning, but it's really 2 days. The second is that most guided courses and trips are all expenses paid sometimes food is or is not included. But most outfitters supply any of the necessary equipment - canoes, paddles, ropes, tents - etc. They're not all this way, certainly - it depends on the activity. But the BFRO expeditions are no expenses paid, the $300-$500 fee is very simply for the knowledge they intend on teaching you.

The second is that your mountaineering course taught you invaluable skills on survival and technique that can literally save lives and is a necessary prerequisite to any serious climbing/hiking venture you wish to do in the future. The BFRO's knowledge, whether helpful or not, is not life saving or a guarantee of success. IMO, the two courses can not really be compared and the BFRO's is overpriced. I also believe it is completely the wrong approach to any group project. The *only* thing that has stopped me from attending one or multiple BFRO events is the price. I earn less than the national average at my job, but plenty to provide the basics for my family. We budget smart and have extra money to go on a vacation or two or for both my wife and I to pursue hobbies of ours. But $500 on top of the cost of food, gas, and camping in general is simply outside my current situation - especially when there is no guarantee that any potential skills will work in my local area. A successful group project is open source - like this message board. If the goal is really scientific discovery of this animal and legislation, etc. to protect it, the BFRO should detail all their information (research areas aside) and research techniques. If they are solid, the new information would greatly help independent researchers.

All of that said, I do believe that many of the BFF's former associations with the BFRO do tend to taint the subject when discussed here. This also goes both ways as many in the BFRO have been hostile to old school BFF members. For example, when the BFF restarted, one of the ideas tossed around (before I took over) was to have research groups represented on the SC. Official skeptics, the BFRO, the TBRC, and others were considered and some were even invited. MM refused anyone from representing the BFRO on the board because he considers the BFF to be completely anti-BFRO. Which, to be fair to him, a lot of people here were (or are).

As previously stated, I've wanted to get inside the BFRO and see if some people here are just haters or if it feels more like a scam and is as bad as they say. Now that I've been out a few dozen times with other researchers and in multiple areas, I feel more confident that I would not be taken advantage of intellectually. But I wish I could go because I would greatly enjoy the learning experience. Also several former or current members of the BFRO (Bart C. and Stan Courtney especially) have always struck me as excellent researchers and good people all around. Their association with the BFRO leads me to believe that it can't be all bad.

rockie: I wish you'd keep posting publicly and not take everything to PM. If people harass you against the Rules you can report them. And at minimum you can simply ignore attempts to derail you or the thread.

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bipedalist
.....As previously stated, I've wanted to get inside the BFRO and see if some people here are just haters or if it feels more like a scam and is as bad as they say.

NOT a hater here:

I'm one of those who corresponded with rockies-s in PM. He knows I'm as unbiased as it comes. I was not impressed by the organization and cost of the one BFRO trip I went on. He knows the details of that outing. If it was in fact a one-time incident then it sure is odd that my experiences line-up with those of several others I have corresponded with even though my circumstances may have been unique in regard to the initial organization of a state presence by BFRO. That said, I have great respect for many BFRO members.

I will not water-down my genuine negative experiences about my outing though. I went into it with a recent sighting under my belt and actually broke away from a "situation" to attend at great cost to me (fees and travel). I was NOT impressed. However I was able to make some acquaintances that were pleasant (and learned from them in a smaller-group situation and I hope them from me)...... and on the other hand, I also made some people very uncomfortable and was knocked off the Blue forum as a result of petty interpretations of my recount of how things went stated in an honest straightforward fashion.

So much for open democratic discussions. Who's the hater?

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Guest

[/font][/color] The second is that most guided courses and trips are all expenses paid sometimes food is or is not included. But most outfitters supply any of the necessary equipment - canoes, paddles, ropes, tents - etc. But the BFRO expeditions are no expenses paid, the $300-$500 fee is very simply for the knowledge they intend on teaching you.

There isn't a single mountaineering or wilderness guide in the Cascades or other places that provides all of your equipment and food. If you need equipment you have to pay extra rental fees for it. The $1300 I paid did not include food or my own equipment and trust me, mountaineering gear is not cheap. The money was for learning the skills of mountaineering and that was it. No different than the BFRO fees. You are paying to learn about a subject from people that are more knowledgeable about it than you. If you don't feel they are more knowledgeable then don't go. Everyone has different opinions on the matter and that is fine. Complaining about someone charging a fee is absurd as this is common place in any sort of guided or led expedition, course, or training.

The BFRO's knowledge, whether helpful or not, is not life saving or a guarantee of success.

There is no guarantee you will summit Mount Rainier either but you still have to pay the $1200 guiding fee. A measuring stick is that any knowledge which doesn't save your life is worthless is an absurd comparison.

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Guest

rockie: I didn't say it was worthless. Don't twist my words. What I said was that, in my opinion, the value of the information is less than their asking price, especially in comparison to more practical and useful information. It's also absurd to compare an expert guided trip up a mountain to an "expert" guided trip on bigfootery. The mountaineering guide climbs mountains for a living (usually) and most guided trips are led by guides who have been up a route dozens if not a hundred times. A guy leading *any* bigfoot trip can not use his skills to summon a bigfoot to the middle of camp for pictures and other than people who claim habituation, I've never heard anyone who claimed to have dozens of encounters. Comparing the two types of guides isn't accurate.

Again, that's not to say that members of the BFRO or the BFRO in general doesn't have valuable information to impart. And no one can set a price on that information but the purchaser. For me, it isn't worth it. For someone with more money than me, it might very well be. Also, again - I don't have anything against the group as a whole. I would like to go on a trip sometime, I just can't afford it.

biped: You're one of the farthest things from a hater I know. ^_^ I'm sorry you had a bad experience. From what I can gather, each BFRO expedition is run by a different group of people. Perhaps the trip you went on had some of the badder apples of the bunch? Out of curiosity, where in the country was the expedition you went on? If I ever buck up the cash, I'll avoid that part of the country.

Edited by ShadoAngel

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bipedalist

Utah 2007 (inaugural): MM was there. Catch me on the PM if you need more.

I'd tell you more about how the following expeditions in that state went but I had the plug

pulled on my "alumni" access/status within months of returning from the trip; maybe that

is pre-programmed (maybe not). I'm sure they could not have been any worse. YMMV.

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