Missing 411

[Guest UPs]

I am now reading the 3rd book and have read the other 2 last year. I really don't think that there is one explanation that covers all of these unusual cases. Most of them fit what could be a bf behavior, but some others seem to defy any rational explanation. One of the bizarre coincidences is like the above story, the child being found in a specific place that has already been searched. Many times, the coroner determined the child had died shortly before being discovered. In almost every case when a missing person is found, they are located in a very inaccessible area at a much higher altitude than where they disappeared from. It's predictable and almost like the most unlikely place should be searched thoroughly once the immediate area has been searched.

I wonder if using the stats compiled in these cases of where the missing were actually found would be useful in solving the 100,s of cases that no remains were ever found. In many cases, the searchers said they did not believe the missing could have gotten to the place the remains (or live) were found. We're talking about children from 16 months old to 4 years old and so many of them. Why can't the child tell rescuers what happened to them? They are described as having a glazed look or just will not say anything.

The author does make mistakes (international or not) in some of the descriptions of the area or geography and that tells me he may have tried to hype a couple of the cases. The facts alone are strange enough and any hype is simply not needed. I would love to see a TV series on these missing cases to get more publicity and maybe interest someone who could solve some of them for the families.

My own basic premise on what's going on is something is abducting these folks for a time and then dumping them where they will be found and not relying on them as a food source (another thread). Nothing else fits the facts for a majority of them. I have my own experience of being lost as a youngster and I reacted completely different than what is described in these cases, except I did climb a fire tower so I could try and see some type of civilization. Why would a 2-3 year old climb these mountains? It is beyond strange.

The UFO abduction theory makes some sort of sense in at least some of the cases, but why would the kids be all scratched up? Would a human abduct these kids and then bring them back into an area that is being searched by 100,s or people to have them found before they die? What about the adults that go missing? What made the bedding area next to the bodies in a few of the cases? So many unanswered questions. Why won't trained dogs track these missing kids? Is there no trail for them to track and if so, why? Why in almost every case are the shoes missing and never found?

It seems to me that there should be a way to show that statistically and only based on known facts, that there is something preying on children and adults in the wild. The first thing that needs to be done is acknowledge that there is an unknown pattern to these missing and to the extent it exists. Once that can be determined, guidelines for SAR could be developed and implemented. I have a very difficult time thinking about these families and kids and what they have went through. This is one very important reason that I would support anyone trying to prove the existence of bf by bringing in a specimen if necessary.

Regardless of your opinion of the author, it sure seems to me that this is a very real problem that needs to be investigated much more and I really don't think we can rely on the US government for answers based on prior inquires with the park service and FBI.

[Explorer]

Here is a interesting story about Sierra Nevada backcountry ranger Randy Morgenson who mysteriously disappeared in 1996, but whose body was later found in 2001.

 

The Backpacker magazine article is a good read.

 

I have not read Blehm's book the Last Season but probably will read based on the many positive reviews in Amazon.

 

http://www.odmp.org/officer/16221-park-ranger-james-randall-randy-morgenson

 

http://www.backpacker.com/survival_guide_skills_how_to_stay_safe_in_the_wilderness/skills/12226

 

http://www.amazon.com/Last-Season-P-S-Eric-Blehm/dp/0060583010/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1369016068&sr=1-1&keywords=last+season

 

This missing person story had closure, and provides clues on why some people appear to disappear into thin air.

 

Another missing FS ranger case that is intriguing is the one of Dave Miller who disappeared after going for a 2.5 day backpack in the Secret Canyon wilderness north of Sedona, AZ.

 

See link below.

 

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/m/miller_david_barclay.html

 

 His body still has not been found.

 

This is an area that I am very familiar with (and is popular with day hikers and backpackers) and find it hard to believe that after 15 years, that no one has found a clue or remains.

 

There is no need to invoke BF for his disappearance. 

 

The young man probably slip and fell into one of the many red rock canyons available for exploration off-trail.

 

 

[Guest jsbelljr83]

I read the book that covers the western USA and parts of Canada and am now almost done with the eastern edition. I always had thoughts similar to Cervelos, but that was before I understood the details on many of these missing kids and adults. It is inexcusable for the NPS to not have a database that lists these missing folks and the circumstances surrounding them. How in the world could parks determine if there is any pattern to these disappearances unless they had a database to find possible patterns? Many of these missing were not inside park boundaries, but instead, just outside them. These would fall under a different jurisdiction and those official records may not be available to the public by law. Many of the older cases were identified by newspaper articles.

Some similarities include:

- missing shoes/boots of victim, never found.

- missing clothing of victim, never found.

- dogs refusing or unable to pick up victims scent.

- almost always, storm occurs soon after victim disappears.

- if body is found, located in swamp area or at much higher elevation than where disappearance occurs.

- 18 month to 2 year olds found a great distance away and without clothing/shoes.

- if found alive, kids unable to say what happened to them.

- a couple of cases that kids say a bear took them and protected them.

- some cases of body found in area that was already searched numerious times.

- many cases of absolutely nothing ever found, even with thousands of SAR folks looking for any signs. The case of Trenny Gibson really disturbed me as did many others. In her case, the NPS did release boxes of files. The FBI would not release anything. Well documented case that had similarities to other cases.

Overall, these books are hard for me to read and I want to help in some way. I really understand the valuable service that SAR does and my hats off to them. These cases go well beyond the lost hiker or abducted by some human deviant and I really hope that the families can find closure someday. The more we can learn about the causes of these types of disappearances, the better we will be able to take steps to avoid them. I was lucky that I found my own way out when I was lost. When you get lost in a large forested area, you initial reaction is to panic and you have to will yourself to stay calm and think it through. We were told what to do if we got lost and I was able to stay calm enough to do exactly what I was taught. The one thing that stands out to me with the missing that were teens or older is they left no sign at all. I would expect some type of sign left in the form of tracks, branches made into arrows, carving, clothing left, yelling, smoke, scent, shelter, etc.

Overall, I do not think all of these missing fall into one specific category, but a large portion of them probably do. What that category is I do not know, but I think the author is on the right track and is just missing a few of the pieces of the puzzle. It is understandable to me that speculation will vary from human to wormholes, but I think it is more likely that if an animal such as bf does exist, some of these cases may be a sign of its existence. UPs

I finished the Eastern version of the book a few weeks ago, there were a few cases in which armed military personnel were called out to assist in the SAR.  The author mentions how odd this was, using Special Forces or Rangers. 

[Spader]

from Bigfoot evidence "DP: Every case in the “Missing-411 books are peculiar, that’s why they were written. One of the more recent and highly unusual cases occurred in South Carolina in 2011 and is a case that’s highlighted in the new book. Before I advise an audience about the facts behind a story, I always ask them to remember back when they had young children. In this story the boy was 21 months old. I ask the readers to remember back when they were around a child that young. How well could they toddle and how far could they walk. How quickly could they get out of your view? How much stamina does a 21-month old child have? In this incident the boy was in his residence with the family dog and his mother. She left the room momentarily and somehow the boy and the dog got outside. There was a large open field surrounding the residence before reaching thick woods. The mother realized that her son and the dog were gone and ran outside to check the yard. The boy and the dog were not only in the yard, they weren’t anywhere in sight. The mother called the sheriff and searchers started to arrive in mass. By late in the afternoon, the weather started to change to rain. Searchers continued to walk the surrounding property and found nothing that first night.

The first morning of the search, a sheriff’s deputy and a natural resource officer were in kayaks on a river two miles from the victims residence, they were just two of hundreds looking for the boy. A search helicopter was flying above the river looking for a body and had just flown over the kayakers. The two law enforcement officers were paddling upstream from the area of the residence and just turned a corner in the river when they made an amazing find. It was 2:30pm when they looked at a sandbar in the middle of the river. They found the missing boy alive lying on his back in the middle of the sand. They immediately called the helicopter back to the scene to pickup the boy and take him to his residence. The pilot confirmed that he had just flown over that section of river and the boy WAS NOT on the sandbar, minutes later he’s lying there.

There are many confusing aspects to this case. How the boy got away from his residence so quickly is not understood. How a 21 month old can manage to go through thick woods, enter the river and arrive at a sandbar in the middle of the river, the million-dollar question. Why didn’t the boy respond to hundreds of searchers that were in the woods that first night? The boy did not suffer from hypothermia even though the weather had been in the low 40’s with rain. The boy’s dog did reappear at the residence. This is one of three cases where very small children have disappeared from the interior of a residence while with the family dog. Each case is equally fascinating. "

I live so close to this that I had the search copters flying over my house. I think the auther needs to do more research into this The weather was up into the 60's that night and the Enoree River is low enough to walk across at ankle deep easy for a tot to cross. The sheriffs office asked people to stay away from the search area because they didnt want to disturb the tots footprints and evidence. We kept waiting for word to come help but the found him safe.. dirty and hungry but could have been worse.

odonata; that story said what I have been trying to put into words for quite awhile. As many would like to think, Bigfoot is not the only weird, strange, otherworldly creature or entity that could be tampering with/in our world. I'm not talking UFO's, ET's, or such but really scary things that have been in folklore for as long as man. Call me nuts. Others with letters after their name have. But there are things out there that we have more of a understanding of Bigfoot than of them.

[Guest]

Is it really surprising that someone lost in the wilderness, particularly if they were wandering around for a while before they died, would be scratched up? Heck, I've gotten pretty scratched up on a golf course before. Nasty poison ivy in the woods on some of those courses, too.

[Guest]

It is not unnatural at all.  It should be expected.

[Guest]

I'm reading this fascinating two volume book right now, and am curious if anyone has ANY idea how to account for the bizarre phenomena of massive storms occurring right after so many of the people disappeared, hampering search and rescue efforts.

Not really sure why its bizarre. Storms hamper search efforts, thus meaning people are less likely to be found after massive storms. Thus, more "unexplained" disappearances for Paulides to write about. Similarly, rain and cold make it more likely that the missing person gets hypothermia. Paradoxical undressing and terminal burrowing are two common phenomena associated with hypothermia. Thus, two mor of Paulides's criteria are met - victims clothes are found, victim isn't. Or, victim is found in previously searched area because they hid from searchers.

I have yet to see a missing 411 story that is truly unexplainable. Most of them are sensationalized accounts of tragic but ordinary missing persons cases. Moreover, the "clusters" are ridiculous when you look at the stats. How many people visit Yosemite every year? Is it really surprising that a couple dozen wind up missing in the purse of a few decades?

Edited August 1, 2013 by leisureclass

[TedSallis]

Not really sure why its bizarre. Storms hamper search efforts, thus meaning people are less likely to be found after massive storms. Thus, more "unexplained" disappearances for Paulides to write about. Similarly, rain and cold make it more likely that the missing person gets hypothermia. Paradoxical undressing and terminal burrowing are two common phenomena associated with hypothermia. Thus, two mor of Paulides's criteria are met - victims clothes are found, victim isn't. Or, victim is found in previously searched area because they hid from searchers.

I have yet to see a missing 411 story that is truly unexplainable. Most of them are sensationalized accounts of tragic but ordinary missing persons cases. Moreover, the "clusters" are ridiculous when you look at the stats. How many people visit Yosemite every year? Is it really surprising that a couple dozen wind up missing in the purse of a few decades?

 

The frequency of the bad weather directly after the disappearances and their conjunction to other odd elements was what I found bizarre.

 

Your mileage can, of course, (and apparently, does) vary.

[Guest]

What other odd elements are you referring to, specifically?

[TedSallis]

What other odd elements are you referring to, specifically?

 

Have you read the books?

[Guest]

Yes.  Can you give specific examples?

[Guest What is that]

A Brenda Harris from New Mexico has told several stories during her interview on July 29/13 on MN BRT radio. She had one story of a grandma driving a truck when bigfoot pursued and took a young girl. She had a second story of two men drinking beer down by the river when they were attacked. One man ran for help as his friend was being attacked. The second man was found a mile or so further along the river with a broken neck. The police said it was a bear attack, the man who survived said it was a squatch. Funny how some people discount such stories when they come with witnesses. Brenda warns people never travel alone and to scan up in the trees as well. Her first encounter; bigfoot came to her house 3 or 4 times on the same night, even attempting to turn the doorknob. She managed to frighten it away by turning the lights on but the last time it came around was about 5 AM in the morning. Bears, cougars and other animals can be dangerous. A man was killed by a beaver... yes, a beaver. The man got close to take pics and the animal bit him, unfortunately severing a major artery. So why would bigfoot not be capable of causing harm? While Paulides doesn't name bigfoot, it does make you think how many missing encountered a bigfoot on a bad hair day?

[TedSallis]

You read the books and found no examples whatsoever of odd elements to the disappearances?

 

 

This poster, jsbelljr83, summed up most of them...but if you independently didn't see anything odd I can't imagine anything I'm going to post will sway you much.

 

"Some similarities include:
- missing shoes/boots of victim, never found.
- missing clothing of victim, never found.
- dogs refusing or unable to pick up victims scent.
- almost always, storm occurs soon after victim disappears.
- if body is found, located in swamp area or at much higher elevation than where disappearance occurs.
- 18 month to 2 year olds found a great distance away and without clothing/shoes.
- if found alive, kids unable to say what happened to them.
- a couple of cases that kids say a bear took them and protected them.
- some cases of body found in area that was already searched numerious times.
- many cases of absolutely nothing ever found, even with thousands of SAR folks looking for any signs. The case of Trenny Gibson really disturbed me as did many others. In her case, the NPS did release boxes of files. The FBI would not release anything. Well documented case that had similarities to other cases."

 

No, they are not specific, but they are applicable to a LOT of the cases.

 

 

[Guest]

But much of it is normal behavior, so it should happen in a LOT of the cases.  This is normal or not odd:

- missing shoes/boots of victim, never found.
- missing clothing of victim, never found.
- dogs refusing or unable to pick up victims scent.
- ...storm occurs soon after victim disappears.
- if body is found, located in swamp area or at much higher elevation than where disappearance occurs.
- 18 month to 2 year olds found a great distance away and without clothing/shoes.
- some cases of body found in area that was already searched numerious times.
- many cases of absolutely nothing ever found, even with thousands of SAR folks looking for any signs.

 

By the way, 1,000s of SAR folks on any one "mission" is more odd than normal.  There's almost never coordination on that scale on a SAR mission.

[Guest Darrell]

I havent read the books, and really not sure I will, but does he compare the missing persons who are not found against missing persons who are found alive? If 20 people go missing each year in any given national park and all but 2 are found alive doesnt that kind of blow a hole in his conspiricy? Same with the storm thing. I have listend to him on several podcasts and on C2CAM and, IMO, he is really just out to make a buck.