Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 So neither Ray nor baboonpete will give a straight answer to my very real quesiton... I'd say "shocking", but it really isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 ^I get your point, and it's well taken, Melissa. That said, I think it's obvious that someone with extensive experience with the subject, or even better someone with extensive experience buttressed by appropriate related credentials is a preferable source for knowledge than some random internet Skeptic with a closed mind and narrow vision of "what is and what isn't" Experience with what subject? I was not aware that anyone had extensive experience with Bigfoot. Have any of them spent months or years in the woods studying and documenting these creatures? You do not think that some "internet skeptics" as you call them, have credentails? Plenty do, you just have not done your homework. Why do you think there are not more people "butressed by appropriate related credentials" involved in Bigfootery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Ok, now I've heard of her. One word comes to mind....."wacko", not expert. Thanks But in terms of Bigfoot, she fits your definition of expert as well as anyone else in the field because it is all based on stories rather than verified hard evidence. Where do you draw the line of "wacko"? Asking for garlic, infra-sound, smoking cigs, self-illuminating eyes, the ability avoid trail cameras, how about the NA legends that say they can shape-shift or turn invisible? Are Native Americans experts - they supposedly have been around them the longest. If JC is wacko does that mean you don't believe NA stories? Like someone said above - until they drag in a body - there are no experts - there is nothing to show who is wrong and who is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 Can I use this quote Ray? Be my guest. So neither Ray nor baboonpete will give a straight answer to my very real quesiton... I'd say "shocking", but it really isn't. What very real question? You mean the one where you asked who we should turn to to learn more about bigfoot? Personally, I don't think there IS anybody out there that knows anything definitive about bigfoot. One does not need to venture into the woods to investigate bigfoot either. RayG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 When I became involved in Bigfootery and publically talked about my encounter in 2006, I also believed there were "Bigfoot experts" Because of my encounter and just by reading BFFVol1 and seeing TV shows and such I "believed" for a time that these persons knew what they were talking about. It was great to be able to talk about the topic with the ridicule toned down.When I became involved in field research in 2008 things changed. I wanted to get involved in the scientific process of fieldwork. I wanted to learn how to handle myself in the woods without getting killed. I have been lucky enough to spend time in the field with what many of you would consider "Bigfoot experts". Through patience, some of them did well to teach me and help me get over my fear. I jumped in with both feet and spent every moment of the next 4 years I could spare in the field. In those 4 years I started to see the dark side of Bigfootery. The Hoaxers, the ego's, the profiteers, and constant bickering between the people involved. It was all very tribal and ignorant and I am ashamed of being involved in that mess. When I started to question some of these people's character and motives and place doubt over the evidence they were presenting. I went from being the "token witness" to being a troublemaker. When I started to decline to talk about my encounter publicly on another radio, TV show or to another reporter, I lost my "worth". I thought I had talked about it enough pulicly and I was not involved to be some type of psuedo Bigfoot celebrity. You would be surprised at how many of them are. The only thing I have found in Bigfooting is my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BFSleuth Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Personally, I don't think there IS anybody out there that knows anything definitive about bigfoot. One does not need to venture into the woods to investigate bigfoot either. To compare this to another field of study, up until this year it could be said that "know one knows anything definitive about the Higgs Boson". Up until this year there were no successful attempts to conduct an experiment to verify the HB exists, yet prior to this year there were several people that had theorized and were knowledgable about the issues that led to the experiment to find it. Using your level of definition to declare that someone is an "expert" requires that they have successfully had confirmation of their theories. Yet the confirmation of the theory didn't suddenly endow them with knowledge. They were already experts in their field of study. To come back to the field of bigfoot research, I think there are a number of people that have devoted thousands of man hours in the field, reading, and interviewing witnesses, that have in depth knowledge of the phenomenon of bigfoot. Many of them are first hand witnesses, however fleeting their observations. Many of them began their quest to prove the existence of the creatures beyond all doubt after having sightings that were unambiguous. In my book they could be known as "experts". Beyond the lay people that are studying this subject, there are experts in a variety of fields of study that are lending their expertise to bigfoot research. From DNA scientists to anthropologists, from FX specialists to statisticians, there are a number of backgrounds that are helping with the research. I suppose based on your definition there will suddenly be an entire genre of experts emerge after BF is proven to exist. IMHO they are already experts, the question is whether their expertise is knowledge of a real or illusory beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Which one of these 'experts' can find bigfoot, and tell us what their diet consists of, how long their gestation period is, describe their courtship rituals, whether they're nocturnal or diurnal, how many teeth they have, etc. etc.? The biggest difference between Higgs Boson experts and bigfoot experts? HB experts have 99.9999% proven the particle exists, even though it's unbelievably* small compared to a bigfoot. And they did it by using science. Bigfoot experts are more like UFO experts. An extensive collection of stories, lots of speculation, well-versed in the literature, but no definitive proof. RayG * from my understanding, you'd have to increase the size of a Higgs Boson particle approximately 100,000,000 times in order for it to be as big as the tip of a .5 pencil lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest baboonpete Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Which one of these 'experts' can find bigfoot, and tell us what their diet consists of, how long their gestation period is, describe their courtship rituals, whether they're nocturnal or diurnal, how many teeth they have, etc. etc.? The biggest difference between Higgs Boson experts and bigfoot experts? HB experts have 99.9999% proven the particle exists, even though it's unbelievably* small compared to a bigfoot. And they did it by using science. Bigfoot experts are more like UFO experts. An extensive collection of stories, lots of speculation, well-versed in the literature, but no definitive proof. RayG * from my understanding, you'd have to increase the size of a Higgs Boson particle approximately 100,000,000 times in order for it to be as big as the tip of a .5 pencil lead. There are no experts til the body or specimen is proven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thermalman Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) Which one of these 'experts' can find bigfoot, and tell us what their diet consists of, how long their gestation period is, describe their courtship rituals, whether they're nocturnal or diurnal, how many teeth they have, etc. etc.? The biggest difference between Higgs Boson experts and bigfoot experts? HB experts have 99.9999% proven the particle exists, even though it's unbelievably* small compared to a bigfoot. And they did it by using science. Bigfoot experts are more like UFO experts. An extensive collection of stories, lots of speculation, well-versed in the literature, but no definitive proof. RayG * from my understanding, you'd have to increase the size of a Higgs Boson particle approximately 100,000,000 times in order for it to be as big as the tip of a .5 pencil lead. I think you might have missed the whole point about the HB that BFSleuth had to say. HB was not proven until recently, but that didn't mean there were no experts, people without examen and research of HB. If you're interested in BF and finding out more about BF, Ray, isn't that why you came to this forum, because you could find out more about BF from the more knowledgable here than what you already knew? When one seeks out advice and opinion from others about a subject, are they not acquiring answers from those they consider more knowledgable or with expertise of the subject? Edited October 14, 2012 by thermalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Patty3 Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Everybody that tries to get educated or experience on the subject is an expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 Great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 I don't think I missed the whole point he's trying to make with the HB comparison. I just don't think it's a valid comparison. One field is composed of experts who make pronouncements based upon the examination of particles at the sub-atomic level, the other is composed of people who make pronouncements about something they've never examined. And no, I came here because I've been a bigfoot enthusiast for as long as some footers have been alive, and this seemed to be the best bigfoot forum. I can't honestly think of a single piece of actual bigfoot 'knowledge' I've learned since I became a member here nearly 10 years ago though. How many teeth does an adult bigfoot have anyway? What questions have been answered, or knowledge shared about bigfoot have I overlooked? The argument in favor of bigfoot experts seems to play out something like this: 1. John Doe is an expert on primate locomotion. 2. John Doe has examined casts of purported bigfoot tracks. 3. Therefore, John Doe is an expert on bigfoot. 1. John Doe created a centralized bigfoot website. 2. The website has a database filled with bigfoot reports/stories. 3. Therefore, John Doe is a bigfoot expert. 1. John Doe has made many field trips in search of bigfoot. 2. John Doe also has a bigfoot TV show. 3. Therefore, John Doe is a bigfoot expert. 1. John Doe is a wildlife biologist. 2. John Doe has never seen bigfoot, but he has written two bigfoot books. 3. Therefore, John Doe is a bigfoot expert. See a pattern there? We never see: 1. John Doe is a zoologist. 2. John Doe has thoroughly examined a bigfoot. 3. Therefore, John Doe is a bigfoot expert. RayG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 What if you have a custom made tree wacker does that make you an expert? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest thermalman Posted October 14, 2012 Share Posted October 14, 2012 (edited) ^ You're forgetting about the actual witnesses Ray. Someone who has done examen with the witnesses' statements, looked at multiple pics and vids, looked at physical evidence etc., has more expertise than you or I on the subject of BF. Further to, even though they have HB now, there are multiple questions they still do not have answers to, regarding HB. Yet, those people would be the ones I would pose any questions to, about HB, as they are the ones with the most expertise at this point. Edited October 14, 2012 by thermalman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest RayG Posted October 15, 2012 Share Posted October 15, 2012 More expertise? How so? What factual information can they tell me about bigfoot that can be confirmed? RayG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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