Conspiracy Theory And Bigfoot

[Rockape]

Rockape: I thought the same thing. They could have come in with some rakes and easily obliterated the prints. And there were certainly enough pine needles around to cover them up even further. Heck, with the somewhat off-color dirt in them, they stood out like a sore thumb. But you never know what kind of employees they had in a place like that that would be doing the actual "grunt work".

BFSleuth: I don't have any pics of them anymore. Lost the ones I had in a hard drive crash, but I'll check with some other folks involved with that outing and see if they still have some.

Coonbo, in all things BF related I don't automatically dismiss what people say they see, and I don't automatically believe it either. That said, I'm not saying I don't believe you in this case. It sounds as though you saw something odd. I suppose if someone wanted the tracks covered up they could have sent someone to do so with the order "take some dirt and fill them in", so that's just what they did, take a bucket of dirt with them from another location to use in filling the tracks.

And I appreciate folks like yourself who get out into the woods to search for evidence, people such as yourself will probably be the ones to prove BF's existence. I'm sure you've seen some thing that have made you think there is an effort to keep any evidence of BF from the public eye, and even though I don't buy into an overall government agenda to keep BF regarded as a myth, I would agree there are people who have reason to do so,

However I'm not so sure you haven't begun to apply devious motives to some of the things you see. Case in point is the guy you ran across in the culvert. I'm guessing you surprised him and possibly even gave him a scare and he just wanted you away from him, not being sure what you were doing there.

Anyway, thanks to you and others that do the field work and be safe out there.

[Guest Coonbo]

AaronD, I didn't get a really good view of the hands because it was hanging onto the sides and back of the tree trunk, as it kept moving back and forth on several limbs that were there, keeping the trunk of the tree between us. But from what I could see, it was my distinct impression that the thumb was somewhat further back than a human's but not as a far back as a chimp's. And the thumb was more proportional in size to ours than to a chimp's. Also, the fingernails didn't look really gnarly like chimp's sometimes look, but because this was a juvenile, that's probably to be expected. I was surprised that there wasn't more hair on the backs of it's hands, but this was in northeast Mississippi, and I now believe that's common for southern BF. The hair on it's arms grew tighter to the skin than I expected, and swept back laterally, so there was a sort of ridge of hair on the back and undersides of it's arms. The legs were more hairy, the hair being longer than on the arms and growing more longitudinally down the legs, but still rather tight to the skin and not more than 3 or 4 inches long.

It was only about 5 1/2 to 6 ft tall at most and the glimpses I got of parts of its head revealed no noticeable ears, round head (I remember specifically thinking "Pea Head", because that's the nickname of one of my Dad's friends that had a really small round head.), head not set as low on the shoulders as adults, no visible whites in its eyes, and I couldn't see the nose or mouth. Its hair was very dark brownish black. The skin I could see on its hands was a little darker than the glimpses of skin I saw on it's face. I couldn't see enough to determine the sex of it, but I'll assume it was a male. When it realized that I saw it and was headed towards it, it at first made a little chuffing noise, but as I got closer, it let out a short plaintive whine, like it was scared. It was very quickly answered by a loud, groaning growl sort of noise from the edge of the swamp about 150 yds away, that I took to be both reassurance to the young booger that help was close by and also a warning to me to that I had better behave, or else. As I left the area, I shot several pics towards the swamp, but the camera didn't have enough resolution to pick anything out of the pics.

[Guest UPs]

The theory that there is a government conspiracy keeping the public from knowledge of bf existance is testable with very limited resources. At least for the first step anyway. A few exciting reports in one small area, pictures posted of said area, video cameras covering said area. Identify individuals accessing said area and background check them. That would at least get someone started. I think someone with a devious mind and good skill set could pull it off fairly easily. UPs

[Martin]

Coonbo's tree'd booger was in the middle of what looked like a plowed field according his pictures. It was sunny and the weather was clear. He pretended to have picture of his booger until he got called out on it. He always could tell a good story.

Coonbo, your description in post # 137 is incredible. It's getting better with age.

[Guest]

Let's please remember that our Rules & Guidelines make the following really clear for posts on the General Forum....

2. Do not make things personal. Attack the argument, not the arguer.

3. Remember at all times that this forum is here to discuss the subject of Bigfoot, not to discuss other members. If you don't have something nice to say about someone, you might want to consider not saying anything.

At this point, this is just a friendly reminder/gentle warning but some of the recent posts are a bit disconcerting as they fall short of the above quoted rules.

Future posts in this thread will be monitored closely by Staff for compliance in the future and subject to disciplinary actions should the personal nature of the last few posts continue.

Debate the subject vigorously, but do so within the rules. Do not make insinuating posts that could be deemed personal attacks or directed at the poster as opposed to the content of their post.

[Drew]

Coonbo- Just post the picture so we can decide ourselves. People arguing over what the picture showed is just going to get the thread shut down. Just show it and be done with it.

[AaronD]

Coonbo I gave you a green arrow up for your description, very clear imagery at least. Wish I coulda been there, stand at the base of the tree and wait; for either the "subject" to come down or the "help" to arrive. In either case you have a full view and should be able to focus and snap even the slowest and most primative of cameras. But on the subject of conspiracy, perhaps it isn't necessarily the government but still some secret society. There's a pretty interesting article on another forum I follow about the Bilderburgs, the Masons, and about 20 others....maybe there's actually one operating seperate from the government, but whose sole interest is to keep BF out of the realm of fact. Why? Maybe there's some age old relationship between "them" and who/whatever BF are....just throwing that out there; I can handle opposing thoughts.....

[Guest]

We have made serious, multi-day research outings in the LBL area three times and I've made several day trips there. I never encountered a belligerent BF there or ever felt in real danger, although there are some really creepy places there.

What made them "creepy?" Did you find Stepford wives there or Jack Nicholson's typewriter?

I HAVE seen some surprising things though. There are wolves in parts of the LBL and the last time I camped there, I saw them on two of the three days we were there and heard them howl several times.

The Land Between the Lakes National Recreation Area is a partner in the captive breeding of Red Wolves for the Red Wolf Recovery Program. They have not released wolves into the Recreation Area itself. The nearest location for experimental Red Wolf release appears to be the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The probability that you heard a wolf howl is fair to middlin'. The probability that you saw a Red Wolf running free in the LBL is close to nil.

There are also roe deer living wild there in part of the LBL.

Fallow Deer, actually.

So, like, how many bigfoots have you seen Coonbo (ballpark)?

[Guest watch1]

The theory that there is a government conspiracy keeping the public from knowledge of bf existance is testable with very limited resources. At least for the first step anyway. A few exciting reports in one small area, pictures posted of said area, video cameras covering said area. Identify individuals accessing said area and background check them. That would at least get someone started. I think someone with a devious mind and good skill set could pull it off fairly easily. UPs

We thought about this at one time. The thing was that unless we fabricated a report in an area that we could monitor 24 hrs. a day, 7 days a week it would have to be in an area of our choice. In doing so, I would have had to make up a report and say the report/sighting took place in the area. If I did this, would this not make me a hoaxer? Some might argue that no one would know but I would know and then somewhere along the line of proving one thing I would then have to tell a lie or should I say, tell another lie because I would have already told one by posting what I knew was a false report. The end does not always justify the means and becoming a hoaxer is not on my list of things to do during my lifetime.

It is easy to say, why don't you just do this or that and you can prove what you are saying is true. If you have to "fudge" the truth, doesn't this change things? There is no such thing as a little lie. Its not always as simple to prove something as some may think. Doing things by the rules and the law makes the research harder but it is the right thing to do.

Mike (watch1)

[bipedalist]

Right, avoid having somebody "spin" your reasons for setting up a "null situation" by refraining from going there is probably the best advice, not that those involved in hoaxing ever truly gets black-flagged (as in Nascar terminology) in Bigfootery (there is usually a paper trail though for those that follow up on historical hoax accounts and analysis of them; yet once the hoax card is called and played on somebody inevitably innocent or not, damage IS done); still there is no reason to be lumped together with true hoaxers by setting up such a situation.

Of course, Bigfoot might like to plant a flag-pole and the black=flag where the sun don't shine for cases such as those "false camp" constructionists when he finds out he is duped (and I would not want to be on the receiving end of that follow-up), lol.

....The Land Between the Lakes National Recreation Area is a partner in the captive breeding of Red Wolves for the Red Wolf Recovery Program. They have not released wolves into the Recreation Area itself. The nearest location for experimental Red Wolf release appears to be the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The probability that you heard a wolf howl is fair to middlin'. The probability that you saw a Red Wolf running free in the LBL is close to nil.

Yes, it seems they have a captive breeding program at LBL, but have never received permission for wild release there. Whether a red wolf could make it from GSMNP is debatable but some made it out of the park.....I think most that did were recovered but distances I'm not sure about. Whether they survived after leaving the park I'm not clear on either. More here.... Whether the seventy-seven or so Red Wolves in northeastern NC could ever make it as far as Kentucky I guess is unlikely but possible..... some of the litters have resulted in packs that have been apparently farmed out on private properties.

Edited July 3, 2012 by bipedalist

[Guest Transformer]

So, like, how many bigfoots have you seen Coonbo (ballpark)?

Are you asking how many he saw in one area before the MIB Government Masons Boy Scouts Kevin Costner turned it into a ballpark?

[southernyahoo]

I think it's only a problem if the Pine Beatles play too loudly. Then you can't hear the trees falling in the forest.

I see that I should have spelled it "beEtle" not "beAtle". I'm not familiar with the band or I would have been more careful. LOL

[Rockape]

The Land Between the Lakes National Recreation Area is a partner in the captive breeding of Red Wolves for the Red Wolf Recovery Program. They have not released wolves into the Recreation Area itself. The nearest location for experimental Red Wolf release appears to be the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The probability that you heard a wolf howl is fair to middlin'. The probability that you saw a Red Wolf running free in the LBL is close to nil.

Yes, it seems they have a captive breeding program at LBL, but have never received permission for wild release there. Whether a red wolf could make it from GSMNP is debatable but some made it out of the park.....I think most that did were recovered but distances I'm not sure about. Whether they survived after leaving the park I'm not clear on either. More here.... Whether the seventy-seven or so Red Wolves in northeastern NC could ever make it as far as Kentucky I guess is unlikely but possible..... some of the litters have resulted in packs that have been apparently farmed out on private properties.

I live in East Texas and the wildlife biologists will tell you that Red Wolves are extinct in this area, but I have seen them myself several times in my life, up close and in daylight so there was no mistaking what I saw. I know canines, having worked in the field as a vet tech and studied animal science in college so I did not see a coyote or a domestic dog and make a mistake. They would also have told you there are no mountain lions in this area, that is until they started showing up on game cams and one was even shot and killed. There are still Red Wolves in this area. So I wouldn't so readily discount Coonbo when he says he saw them.

[Guest sonofbigfoot]

Has anyone seen the news release from the Dept. of Interior, dated Dec. 21, 1977? http://www.fws.gov/news/historic/1977/19771221.pdf

They list the social disruption the discovery of Bigfoot would cause - including calling out the National Guard to preserve order!

Since Bigfoot avoids contact with Man, and is basicly harmless if not molested, the Government has no no compelling reason to admit their existence, and every logical reason to keep mum on the subject.

Also, it's not the governments job to "Discover wonderful new things and then tell us about them". Refer to the Preamble to our Constitution; where the purpose of our government is laid out - the pertinent line is: "Insure Domestic Tranquillity". That means keep the people ignorant & happy, don't worry them with things that don't matter, or that the government can't do anything about anyway (think UFO's). Career government bureaucrats take this directive seriously, and act accordingly.

So don't beat up on the government types - they're just doing their jobs. I do believe they would actively disrupt any attempt to investigate a Bigfoot body. Since most scientists get their research funding directly or indirectly from government sources, they would easily be "convinced" that it is not in their "professional interest" to get involved with that particular line of research - and the body would be confiscated.

Frank

[Guest Coonbo]

What made them "creepy?" Did you find Stepford wives there or Jack Nicholson's typewriter? LOL!! No, I ran into my ex-mother in law. Yeesh! Kidding aside, go poking around in the north end of LBL, in the areas of Road numbers in the 100's through the low 140's at all hours of the day and night, much of the time by yourself, or with only one or two others, and get out of your vehicle and get out in the woods, even after dark. Do all of this and see if you don't get creeped out just a little in some places. Do some research and go find the "Vampire Hotel" and go there late in the evening.

The Land Between the Lakes National Recreation Area is a partner in the captive breeding of Red Wolves for the Red Wolf Recovery Program. They have not released wolves into the Recreation Area itself. The nearest location for experimental Red Wolf release appears to be the Great Smoky Mountains National Park. The probability that you heard a wolf howl is fair to middlin'. The probability that you saw a Red Wolf running free in the LBL is close to nil. Well, however close to nil the probability is, it happened. Saw them on two successive evenings in the vicinity of Taylor Bay campground, four the first evening and three the second. And I absolutely KNOW what a wolf in the wild looks like, have seen them before. These were not coyotes, coy-dogs, feral dogs, or anybody's pet. They were wolves, and they were NOT in a pen or any type of enclosure.

Fallow Deer, actually. Correct you are! My mistake.

So, like, how many bigfoots have you seen Coonbo (ballpark)? Ha! You'll have a field day with this one. Most researchers would not answer a question like this from a self-professed skeptic on a public forum. But I'm going to give you a straight answer and not dodge the bullet like a lot of folks would. I'm trying to go back through 33 years of memories of actively studying these creatures in the field since my first good encounter.... Clearly, in natural light or in a spotlight or headlights well enough to tell its color and size: around 10 or 11 individuals that I can remember right now. But at least one of them I saw several times. In night vision/thermal imaging equipment: 4 or 5. Glimpses and eyeshine I'm reasonably certain were BF: around 14 to 16. ------- Yeah, I know. That's, ballpark, 28 to 32 "sightings" of one kind or another. And this is not counting how many vocalizations I've heard (including some from from really close and LOUD), how many times rocks, sticks, etc., have been thrown in my vicinity, how many tree crashes and snaps I've heard, how many times trees have been pushed down across the road where I've been, and how many other "encounters" or experiences I've had in which I believe BF were involved. And some researchers have done this longer than I have and have never seen even one that they could be sure of. All I can say is, they either haven't been looking in the right places, in the right conditions, or using the right techniques, or a combination of these. And in spite of what you see on TV, equipment (with the possible exception of good thermal imaging gear) has very little to do with it. And I've covered thousands of miles and put in untold hours doing this. I've actively researched, in the field, in 15 states and kept my eyes and ears open in another 17 states while there for other reasons. There are very, very few other folks who have covered the ground and spent the time in the boonies doing this that I have.